X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: therapy on March 21, 2011, 12:43:19 PM
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Hi all,
Totally new to x10 so be gentle with me!!
I've set up my CM15a to run a couple of Plug in modules and have just added an X10(2nd) SIMTONE switch to turn my 6 X GU10 lights off and on.
Everything works fine UNTIL I turn on the lights and the USB connection showing that my AHP is connected to my XP computer suddenly disappears. I then have to turn off the lights, and unplug the power, then plug it in for the CM15a for it to show up again.
Would the GU10 lights be interfering somehow with the CM15a.
I have tried the CM15a in 3 different PC's and 1 x XP and 2 x Vista and all 3 of them drop the USB when I turn on the lights.
Any help or pointers would be great
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Exactly what is a SIMTONE switch? We don't have them here in the US.
Can you give us a part number of the SIMTONE switch as my Google search found a few of them. We maybe able to find more information after we can find data on the switch itself.
It does could like maybe noise from the lights.
Are they line voltage or low voltage with a power supply?
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Sorry SIMTONE just make the silver surrounds (plastic clip ons) for the light switch
The switch is an x10-2223 Dimmer 2 wire purchased from x10-hk.com. It doesnt have a neutral (uk wiring) but I dont think that should make any difference.
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Our WS467 and WS12A dimmer switches also don't use a neutral.
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Do you know if the GU10 type bulbs give off any "feedback" which would affect the CM15a in any way??? I'm totally lost as to what could be causing it.....
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GU10 is the base connection style.
Are they a standard 240 volt 50Hz they use in the UK or a low voltage type with a power supply or transformer on them?
I would not think a standard power line bulb would make noise or are they a LED type and not incandescent or halogin?
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They are just a standard 240v 50hz Halogen bulb, not low voltage, so I cant see the connection between turning them on and the USB dropping as there "shouldn't" be any interference
B:(
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Are you using a standard length, shielded USB cable? Have you tried swapping out the USB cable to see if that makes any difference?
I know that when I tried to use a USB-over-CAT5 extender (several different brands, in fact), I would get noise creeping in, especially when lights or my furnace came on, that would disrupt that USB connection. I gave up on extending the USB, and extended the power connection instead.
A bad USB cable (of "standard length") can had faulty shielding, and might be picking up some interference, too.
Does the same thing happen if you turn the lights on manually (not using the CM15A)?
Is the switch that you are using rated to handle the type and wattage of those lights?
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I do have a spare USB cable which I shall plug in and try, and the switch rating states it should be able to handle 400W total.
-:)Noam, I do have 2 banks of 6 x 35w lights = 420W total (although only one of the banks is turned on when the USB drops) but I suppose it could make a difference. I shall take out a few bulbs and try again
Many thanks Brian and Noam for your input I do appreciate it, I shall let you know if I havent thrown the switch against the wall by then ;D
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I just checked and x10-hk.com is NOT in the US/Canada. It serves "X10 Home Automation product for 220V Countries include Hong Kong ,UK , Italy , Netherlands , Spain , United Arab Emirates , Germany , Malaysia , Singapore , Thailand , Australia , Italy , Portugal , ...etc" so therapy is not in the US or Canada. He needs to tell us where he is and what kind of CM15 is he using as US/Canada X10 items are not compatible with European X10 items.
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I believe he indicated the UK. In one of the posts in the thread Dan.
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I do have a spare USB cable which I shall plug in and try...
Let us know how that goes.
I'd be particularly curious to know if the connection goes out without the CM15's involvement (like when you turn the lights on manually at the switch).
Are the lights wired directly to the switch, or is there any sort of transformer or control module in between?
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Just to confirm I am from the Uk, and the wiring goes straight from the lights to the switch with no transformers or anything other than standard wiring. The USB drops whether I switch on the lights manually or through the PC, I shall try and remove some bulbs and check the connections. I can only think that by overloading the switch there must be some feedback from the switch???? Does sound a bit strange though. Again, many thanks everybody I shall let you know how I get on
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I can't tell for sure, but from the documentation on their website, it looks like the X10-2223 is a on-way device (it does not transmit its status over the powerline).
From that, I am having trouble coming up with a scenario that could cause the issue described, other than some sort of surge when the load comes on, or some sort of electrical noise disrupting the USB communication.
If there is a way to test the switch with just a since incandescent bulb (instead of the bunch of halogens), you might be able to narrow down the cause.
you also stated that to reset the system, you need to turn that light off, unplug power to the CM15, and then plug it back in.
Have you tried doing a full reset? To do that, you would unplug the CM15 from power and the USB, and remove the batteries. Wait a minute or two, and then replace the batteries and plug it back into the USB and the power.
Have you tried doing your unplugging with the light still on? Does it not work in that case?
If you haven't, you might want to try those, and let us know how it goes.
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The CM15A is on a USB port on the computer and not on a hub?
Any possibility the CM15 and the lights in question are on the same circuit.
I guess there is a rare chance. The switch itself is defective if it was a new untested one.
Though I also don't see the connection between the USB problem and the lights.
Does the switch say it is good for 400 Watts as the manual indicates 500 watts max and 40 watts min.
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Everything works fine UNTIL I turn on the lights and the USB connection showing that my AHP is connected to my XP computer suddenly disappears.
Silly question here (I specialize in them).
Are you sure it is simply the USB connection going down when you turn on the GU10 halogens? or could it be the entire CM15A locking up? I don't know how to isolate, since the computer can no longer talk to the CM15A. But if were me I think I would delete the GU10 lights in AHP and recreate.
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Right, update!
I hadn't really looked at the bulbs, they are in fact 12v low voltage halogens (sorry about the false info) which means they're all on transformers (would this make a difference??)
I have split the bank of lights into two individual switches, and with each switch that is turned on the USB x10 disappears off the connected devices list (so I dont think there is anything wrong with the switch.
Have done the hard reset on the CM15 (taking the battery out and leaving it for a while, then putting it back in with the lights on) but it doesn't seem to make any difference, still the same result when I turn the lights on.
Im guessing there must be some interference due to the transformers which is affecting the CM15 in some way, I'll have to put some incandescent lights on the switch to prove this.
Thanks to everyone for helping me out with this...
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Also changed the USB lead to another brand new one I had around so hopefully I can tick that one off as well.
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After a few more hours fault finding I finally decided to put the switch on a circuit without low voltage transformers and "hey presto" everything worked first time, no drop of USB. Hope this might help some other poor newbie with an answer as to what possibly could be the problem.
I now have the option of changing the low voltage lights over to 240v lights to eliminate the transformers (unless anyone knows of a work around??)
I've also now worked out that the switch in the new position (under some cabinets in the kitchen) will only work if the flourescent lights near to the switch, but switched on a different circuit, are OFF, but I knew that flourescent lights played havoc with the x10 commands.
Once again, thanks for everyones input and help. I'm getting there....slowly!
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Dimmers and transformers hardly ever get along with each other.
Especially the two wire ones where the power for the switch is stolen through the load.
Glad you found the cure. I believe the dimmers and transformers where making all kinds of garbage noise on the power lines.
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You could try replacing the dimmer with a switch designed for florescent lights, with a neutral wire.
You also may need to install wire-in filters before the florescent lights.
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The Power supply for the halogens are probably a switching power supply and not a magnetic transformer!!!
SMPS's are VERY noisy (electrically) AND have input filters so that the switching noise will not go back out the line input.
Also, the X10 dimmers don't really like magnetic (reactive) loads, and don't really play well with non dimmable (or even some dimmable) SMPS's.
These filters usually have a small cap across the line, anywhere between .047uF to 1uF. THIS WILL SUCK ALL OF YOUR X10 SIGNAL as well.
The noise from the SMPS may be so high that the CM15a is being locked up because it is "receiving" the switching noise from the SMPS.
This are all guesses though. The only way to see is to use a scope and look at the line noise, or use the XTBM monitor to see how much noise is on the line.
Just a few more tips and hints....
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It should be possible, in theory, to switch the load using a relay-type X10 switch, and wire in a filter to prevent the noise from reaching the rest of the X10 setup.