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💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: uh60james on November 03, 2011, 11:48:38 PM

Title: No more CM15A's
Post by: uh60james on November 03, 2011, 11:48:38 PM
So I see on here people are reporting getting the near worthless CM19 instead of CM15A's?  Is that still the case?  I order some items today and one package supposedly included a CM15A.  This is not good at all if I get a CM19 which will be worthless to me.  I notice they are now listing a CM15K with ActiveHome PC under the daily deals.  Anyone know whats going on?
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Brian H on November 04, 2011, 06:28:41 AM
Well the deals page and actual sales page for the kit are confusing.
If you read the whats included. On the kits page itself.
It says a CM15K is a PC transceiver and RF transceiver combination.
That means a CM19A with a TM751 transceiver. As the photo on the kits sales page clearly shows a CM19A.
Though the deals page photo shows a CM15A.  :o
http://www.x10.com/promotions/sw31a_activehome_push.html?EM
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Noam on November 04, 2011, 09:22:19 AM
It says a CM15K is a PC transceiver and RF transceiver combination.

From my experience , a "K" at the end of the item number identifies it as a "kit," consisting of a few components.
I guess they ran out of CM15A's (the "A" indicating the US/Canada version), and decided to put together a kit of a CM19A, and a TM751. I guess they figured they could sneak it past unsuspecting users if they called it a "CM15", since that's what people are looking for.

There were reports of other people ordering a CM15A, and getting a CM19A/TM751 instead. I wonder if they really ordered a CM15K, and got exactly what they ordered.

However, a closer look at the writeup mentions specifically the CM15A:
This App sends wireless commands from your phone over your home Wi-Fi network to ActiveHome Pro on your PC. ActiveHome Pro instantly wirelessly transmits the commands to your Transceiver (or ActiveHome Pro PC Interface - CM15A), which delivers the commands to your light/appliance modules.

Pretty sneaky on X10's part if you ask me. While it might not *technically* be false advertising, but it is deliberately misleading, and it is a very dishonest way to market the product.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: uh60james on November 04, 2011, 09:35:25 AM
Here is the product I ordered which as of the time of this post does state CM15A and in the narrative it also states "It even works when your computer is off."  That is kind of the point of the CM15A for me since I don't have a desktop computer anymore.  The CM19 is a serious downgrade in my opinion and I think at the very least the CM15K is deceptive.  Generally if you go to a higher number letter or number at the end of a product that would indicate an updated version ie. CM15K would be a newer version of CM15K.  I already expect to get a CM19A and all the other components will be practically useless to me until I can figure out an alternative to the real CM15A.

http://www.x10.com/whatsincluded/CM15A-ED-LOW-EMPL-PROMO.html
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dave w on November 04, 2011, 10:03:35 AM
Pretty sneaky on X10's part if you ask me. While it might not *technically* be false advertising, but it is deliberately misleading, and it is a very dishonest way to market the product.
This kind of deception will do nothing less than light the afterburners on X10's desent. Pretty sad.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Noam on November 04, 2011, 10:26:27 AM
Here is the product I ordered which as of the time of this post does state CM15A and in the narrative it also states "It even works when your computer is off."  That is kind of the point of the CM15A for me since I don't have a desktop computer anymore.  The CM19 is a serious downgrade in my opinion and I think at the very least the CM15K is deceptive.  Generally if you go to a higher number letter or number at the end of a product that would indicate an updated version ie. CM15K would be a newer version of CM15K.  I already expect to get a CM19A and all the other components will be practically useless to me until I can figure out an alternative to the real CM15A.

http://www.x10.com/whatsincluded/CM15A-ED-LOW-EMPL-PROMO.html

In this case, X10 uses the letter at the end to indicate a different geographical version (CM15E is the European 220V version, for example).

However, the page you linked to CLEARLY states a CM15A. If they sent you something different, you have a right to demand they correct it, or issue a FULL refund (shipping included). If they don't want to, then go through your credit card company.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: JeffVolp on November 04, 2011, 10:29:09 AM

The supply of Maxi Controllers dried up last summer, but they are back now.  Hopefully this is just a temporary supply problem with the CM15A.  One eBay dealer has a gazillion CM11A's from a special build for sale.

Jeff
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: bvrwally on November 04, 2011, 10:30:33 AM
Yep...I had the same problem last month myself! They snuck a CM19 in on me for the price of a CM15 didn't think I'd notice!!!! It went directly back! :(
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Noam on November 04, 2011, 10:35:46 AM
Pretty sneaky on X10's part if you ask me. While it might not *technically* be false advertising, but it is deliberately misleading, and it is a very dishonest way to market the product.
This kind of deception will do nothing less than light the afterburners on X10's desent. Pretty sad.

Well, Jeff has already said (in no uncertain terms), that he has no desire to build a replacement for the CM15A (I already told him I'd be first in line to buy an XTB15A, but he didn't bite ;) ).
If X10 is out of CM15A's, and doesn't look like they are getting any more any time soon, there is an opening for someone else (Smarthome, perhaps?) to step in and fill the gap. Their own hardware/software combination leaves a lot to be desired (according to a friend of mine who went from X10 to Insteon to solve reliability issues). It does Insteon ok (it doesn't have the same features as AHP with a CM15A, though, and has even fewer features when it comes to controlling X10).

I'm thinking of something with the CM15A's feature list (minus the bugs), a better RF transceiver coupled with an external antenna port, Ethernet (WiFi as an added option, perhaps?),  a built-in web server with GOOD (upgradable) software, and good battery backup. 

Anyone want to make it happen?
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: JeffVolp on November 04, 2011, 10:54:17 AM
If X10 is out of CM15A's, and doesn't look like they are getting any more any time soon, there is an opening for someone else (Smarthome, perhaps?) to step in and fill the gap.

A number of my customers have migrated away from the ActiveHome Pro GUI to HomeSeer, HCA, or one of the other PC-based automation systems, which is why I developed the XTB-232 to support that market.  Running on an older laptop, that can be relatively energy efficient, and offers much more automation flexibility, such as monitoring the state of SmartHome dimmers that transmit the preset dim protocol.  Adding a WGL transceiver to the mix for RF reception gives you extended range with a single unit.

Jeff
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dhouston on November 04, 2011, 10:59:37 AM
I'm thinking of something with the CM15A's feature list (minus the bugs), a better RF transceiver coupled with an external antenna port, Ethernet (WiFi as an added option, perhaps?),  a built-in web server with GOOD (upgradable) software, and good battery backup.

You mean something like...
It has a bootloader so upgrades will be simple. There's no need for a battery backup for macros & timers. The battery can power the RTC for 10 years - if you haven't paid the utility bill by then...

If you need to send RF, that will need to be a DIY external module as FCC approvals cost several $K. Ethernet will have to be external and external WiFi gets a bit pricey but is available. It might be simpler to use it with...

Of course, you will need an RR501 to convert.

I have no intention of making it compatible with X-10 software so don't ask.  :'
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: uh60james on November 04, 2011, 11:18:41 AM
Assuming I don't get a CM15A, which I think will most likely be the case can anyone reccomend an alternative to the CM15A that is just as or nearly as functional?  Would this work by any chance?  http://www.smarthome.com/2414U/PowerLinc-INSTEON-Controller-USB-Based-Home-Automation-Device/p.aspx (http://www.smarthome.com/2414U/PowerLinc-INSTEON-Controller-USB-Based-Home-Automation-Device/p.aspx)
I don't like the price compared to what I thought I would be getting the software and CM15A for but it appears I have limited if any options.  Edit: What about a CM11A is that an option?
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Noam on November 04, 2011, 11:35:10 AM
The beauty of the CM15A (and the CM11A before it) is that they were designed to be standalone controllers, that didn't require a PC to be connected all the time. In my case, I keep it connected to a running PC all the time, but I'm not using any of the newer AHP plugins that require AHP to be open 24/7.


It has been just over 7 years since I got my first CM15A (I lost track of what number I'm on right now, it has been replaced a number of times - at no cost to me), but that seems like an eternity (which it almost is, in technology years!).

Migrating over to a laptop-based (or very small PC-based) system, using something like Jeff's XTB-232 or Dave's RR5x5 is a road I'm nervous to head down. I'm a geek, but I've been happy with the simpler, "non-geek" solution that X10 provided with the CM15A and AHP. I know that migrating over to something new will involve buying more stuff (an interface module, an RF transceiver, some sort of computer to run it on, a good UPS for that computer, etc), and spending a lot of time configuring software, testing, and making sure the system is really working properly. I'm just not ready for that.

Maybe at some point in the near future...
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: uh60james on November 04, 2011, 11:49:46 AM
Just confirmed that even if you order a kit that is listed as having a CM15A and not a CM15K you will be getting a CM19A/TM751.  Not a good substitute at all.  I asked if there was anything he could do, will see what they say.  Here is what they said on facebook.

"The CM19A/TM751 modules will be substituted for any CM15A purchases at this time. These devices will work together in order to fulfill your automation needs using ActiveHome Professional."
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Brian H on November 04, 2011, 12:34:01 PM
Yes in the deals page today. A CM15K is defined as a PC Tranceiver, Power Line Tranceiver combination.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: uh60james on November 04, 2011, 12:39:34 PM
Yup, and that's not a good substitute at all.

Tried to see if Chat could do anything and nope.

ot questions? Ask a salesperson live!
( homepagechat )Chat right now with an X10 Expert and get the best possible deal!
( Evan ) Hello, Thank you for contacting X10.com. Have you seen the best tablet on the market for Under $200? Click here to check it out!

- May I have your order number so that I can assist you today?
( HomePageChat )37xxxx1
( Evan ) thank you how may i assist you
( HomePageChat )Part of my order is supposed to include a CM15A but I hear you no longer have CM15A's in stock is that correct?
( Evan ) this is correct the CM15A's are currently on back order
( HomePageChat )Do you expect to get anymore in?
( Evan ) Yes, i just don't have an exact day when we will get them back
( HomePageChat )Ok, so are the orders that have been placed with a CM15A being held, partially shipped, or something else?
( Evan ) the orders with the CM15A are being automatically substituted with CM15K which has a CM19A and TM751 in the kit
( HomePageChat )Is there any way I could get a refurbished or other returned CM15A? The problem with the CM15K is that I have to have a computer hooked up to the CM19A at all times for it to work and that
( HomePageChat )thats not a good option for me
( Evan ) unfortunately we don't have any refurbished ones
( HomePageChat )Ok, thanks.
( Evan ) your welcome was there anything else i can assist you with
( HomePageChat )nope

Looks like I'll have to search for a CM15A elsewhere or find an alternative, I notice the CM11A is supported by the ActiveHome Pro software now.  Is that a good alternative?
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dhouston on November 04, 2011, 12:50:11 PM
Migrating over to a laptop-based (or very small PC-based) system, using something like Jeff's XTB-232 or Dave's RR5x5...

The RR5x5TM will run standalone just like a CM11A or CM15A with the difference being it has 8-32 times the static memory for macros & timers (and is also faster since it uses SPI). i may add an option for 32KB of F-RAM. An extra $25 connects it to your LAN. You only need a PC or my roZettaTM/ZarduinoTM system if you want to d/l to it or do things to extend its capabilities (e.g. it can add WiFi and tons of other capabilities for about the same cost as an external Serial-WiFi adapter). It will require my software because it's Windows/Linux/OSX capable and I've never been impressed by any X-10 software.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Brian H on November 04, 2011, 01:17:47 PM
CM11A was discontinued a fair amount of time back.
Though an EBay dealer got a recent date code batch somewhere.

The CM11A is not a real good replacement for a CM15A.
Much smaller download memory size.
Also it is a serial device not a USB device.

Some have used a USB to Serial adapter with varied results. That maybe related to the adapter model they chose.
I am not sure if AHP would work with a USB to serial adapter. As choosing CM11A in AHP requires you to specify the COM port.

You may want to do some web searching as there are dealers still  listing them, but at a higher price.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Noam on November 04, 2011, 01:25:22 PM
Migrating over to a laptop-based (or very small PC-based) system, using something like Jeff's XTB-232 or Dave's RR5x5...

The RR5x5TM will run standalone just like a CM11A or CM15A with the difference being it has 8-32 times the static memory for macros & timers (and is also faster since it uses SPI). i may add an option for 32KB of F-RAM. An extra $25 connects it to your LAN. You only need a PC or my roZettaTM/ZarduinoTM system if you want to d/l to it or do things to extend its capabilities (e.g. it can add WiFi and tons of other capabilities for about the same cost as an external Serial-WiFi adapter). It will require my software because it's Windows/Linux/OSX capable and I've never been impressed by any X-10 software.

That's something to consider, certainly. However, it looks like it will be an expensive solution.
Why go through the trouble of heavily modifying an RR501, as opposed to building the unit from the ground up? Given the reliability issues we have all experienced in some form or another at one time, I'd feel more confident with a device that was build using known components, as opposed to hacking into a module that X10 had built for them in a chinese factory for a few dollars (at most).
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: JeffVolp on November 04, 2011, 01:55:23 PM
I'd feel more confident with a device that was build using known components, as opposed to hacking into a module that X10 had built for them in a Chinese factory for a few dollars (at most).

Most components come from China or another low labor cost country today.  Even the last batch of Signal transformers had a China label even though they cost twice as much as the Tamrua or Zettler alternatives.

That said, I have been impressed by the quality of the components.  Tolerance on components I spot checked is tighter than it was years ago.

Jeff
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: uh60james on November 04, 2011, 02:06:01 PM
CM11A was discontinued a fair amount of time back.
Though an EBay dealer got a recent date code batch somewhere.
 

I'm seeing that now, found a few available from individual sellers though.

Dave is the RR5x5 available now or is it still in development?
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: uh60james on November 04, 2011, 02:30:52 PM
Any thoughts on the PowerLinc USB interface?  At $70 its more than I'd like to spend right now but it may be my best option.  I see it's definitely x10 compatible but does it work with ActiveHome Pro?
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dhouston on November 04, 2011, 02:41:01 PM
Dave is the RR5x5 available now or is it still in development?
I hope to have it ready by early next year. The same distributor who will handle the ZarduinoTM boards will also offer it. I had really planned on putting it off even longer (it was more of a pet project) but the apparent demise of the CM15A has caused me to work on it sooner. I'm finalizing the PCB layout now but a few components are still up in the air. I need an isolation transformer for the DIO but am not sure I can find one with the frequency range I would like.

Of course, new RR501s may also become hard to find. And, while I can quickly put together an Interface application, it may be somewhat fundamental, initially, as I have a rather full plate right now. The source code (both PC apps and firmware) will be open source and written in Basic dialects so others might want to play with it also.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: JeffVolp on November 04, 2011, 02:48:08 PM
Some have used a USB to Serial adapter with varied results. That maybe related to the adapter model they chose.

One of the XTB-232 beta testers had been using a USB adapter with his CM11A, and then just swapped over to the XTB-232.  I recall he was using Home Control Assistant (HCA) running on the PC.

I've see USB adapters available on eBay for just a few bucks, but the highly regarded Digi Edgeport is over $50.  When I get the chance I'll check to see if that works with ActiveHome Pro.

Jeff
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: uh60james on November 04, 2011, 02:55:04 PM
Dave is the RR5x5 available now or is it still in development?
I hope to have it ready by early next year. The same distributor who will handle the ZarduinoTM boards will also offer it. I had really planned on putting it off even longer (it was more of a pet project) but the apparent demise of the CM15A has caused me to work on it sooner. I'm finalizing the PCB layout now but a few components are still up in the air. I need an isolation transformer for the DIO but am not sure I can find one with the frequency range I would like.

Of course, new RR501s may also become hard to find. And, while I can quickly put together an Interface application, it may be somewhat fundamental, initially, as I have a rather full plate right now. The source code (both PC apps and firmware) will be open source and written in Basic dialects so others might want to play with it also.

Sounds good, saw your site and you have done some great work!

There are still IBM Home Director Starter Kits on a website online N.I.B. I am researching to see if that is another viable option for now.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dhouston on November 04, 2011, 03:06:04 PM
There are still IBM Home Director Starter Kits on a website online N.I.B. I am researching to see if that is another viable option for now.

Do you have a link? Those were identical to the CM11A as I recall. I've dealt with Hopco , who lists them at an attractive price, (although about 7 times what you could get them for back when IBM dumped them  ;D) but it was some time ago.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: uh60james on November 04, 2011, 03:17:07 PM
There are still IBM Home Director Starter Kits on a website online N.I.B. I am researching to see if that is another viable option for now.

Do you have a link? Those were identical to the CM11A as I recall. I've dealt with Hopco , who lists them at an attractive price, (although about 7 times what you could get them for back when IBM dumped them  ;D) but it was some time ago.

Hopco and http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-HOME-DIRECTOR-STARTER-KIT-SECURITY-CONTROL-W-PC-/260884929404?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbdf41b7c#ht_4901wt_1026 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-HOME-DIRECTOR-STARTER-KIT-SECURITY-CONTROL-W-PC-/260884929404?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbdf41b7c#ht_4901wt_1026)

I saw another one used for $15 but cant find it anymore.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: JeffVolp on November 04, 2011, 03:48:30 PM
I just checked ActiveHome Pro with the Digi Edgeport USB/RS232 adapter, and it works fine with both the CM11A and XTB-232.  It took a bit of trial and error to get the port assigned properly (the Edgeport showed up in Device Manager as COM5).

Bottom line - a good USB/RS232 adapter will allow you to use the CM11A on a newer computer that has no serial ports.

(I just wanted to add that I tested this on a computer running XP service pack 3.)

Jeff
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: uh60james on November 04, 2011, 04:16:29 PM
I just checked ActiveHome Pro with the Digi Edgeport USB/RS232 adapter, and it works fine with both the CM11A and XTB-232.  It took a bit of trial and error to get the port assigned properly (the Edgeport showed up in Device Manager as COM5).

Bottom line - a good USB/RS232 adapter will allow you to use the CM11A on a newer computer that has no serial ports.

(I just wanted to add that I tested this on a computer running XP service pack 3.)

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, good info there!  I went ahead and ordered the IBM version of the CM11A so hopefully I can get a working system yet.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dhouston on November 04, 2011, 04:20:34 PM
Bottom line - a good USB/RS232 adapter will allow you to use the CM11A on a newer computer that has no serial ports.
And I'll add that I've tested CM11As and the IBM clone using a $9 USB-Serial adapter...
with no apparent problems. One caveat - I don't use X-10 software but I doubt there would be a problem. There are Virtual Com Port drivers for Windows/Linux/OSX and it will appear as a serial port on those systems.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dhouston on November 04, 2011, 04:24:34 PM
I saw another one used for $15 but cant find it anymore.

One of the larger online Home Automation stores sold these for $6 about 10 years back when IBM dropped them. Some folks stocked up.  :'
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: uh60james on November 04, 2011, 04:41:42 PM
Bottom line - a good USB/RS232 adapter will allow you to use the CM11A on a newer computer that has no serial ports.
And I'll add that I've tested CM11As and the IBM clone using a $9 USB-Serial adapter...
  • http://www.byterunner.com/byterunner/product_name=Y-105/user-id=/password=/exchange=/exact_match=exact
with no apparent problems. One caveat - I don't use X-10 software but I doubt there would be a problem. There are Virtual Com Port drivers for Windows/Linux/OSX and it will appear as a serial port on those systems.

Thanks for sharing that link, just ordered one.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Knightrider on November 05, 2011, 07:41:25 AM
{RANT MODE}

I have several powerflashes hooked to various things like thermostats and telephones in this house that send a PLC code to my CM15A's to trigger MACROS.  How the heck is a CM15K a suitable replacement?  These macros would be useless with this system as I fail to see how the AHP/CM15K combination would see the triggers.

My dream would be to see a Computer Module  that had all the functions of the CM15A plus some digital and analog collectors for interfacing with other things and ethernet communications for remote location.  In this world, we should move forward, not backward; upward, not forward.

{/rant mode}
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: JeffVolp on November 05, 2011, 09:47:21 AM
My dream would be to see a Computer Module  that had all the functions of the CM15A plus some digital and analog collectors for interfacing with other things and ethernet communications for remote location.

That's why I switched from the beta CM14A to the Ocelot almost a decade ago.  Those analog and digital inputs allow me to monitor temperature at several locations and other conditions useful in controlling devices.  Stargate (now discontinued), HomeVision, and Elk also make high-end controllers with real-world I/O.  You do have to add a RF transceiver such as the WGL for X10 wireless control.

Jeff
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: HA Dave on November 05, 2011, 10:01:06 AM
So... are we assuming that the CM15A is gone... forever? I wouldn't say that is incorrect... it could be we never see that module again.

I am with Knightrider... the "K" isn't a satisfactory replacement. Maybe an ELK - WGL combo might be a suitable for both RF and PLC... but still no coordinated macros. [rant] This really sucks! [end of rant]
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dave w on November 05, 2011, 10:07:46 AM
That's why I switched from the beta CM14A to the Ocelot almost a decade ago.  Those analog and digital inputs allow me to monitor temperature at several locations and other conditions useful in controlling devices.  Stargate (now discontinued), HomeVision, and Elk also make high-end controllers with real-world I/O.  You do have to add a RF transceiver such as the WGL for X10 wireless control.
To Knight,

FWIW The Homeseer software can interface to any of the systems Jeff has listed, in addition it tolerates a CM15A.  So you could move on to Homeseer first then upgrade the system to an interface that has external inputs later.

(and you can name your flags and attach notes to every device, flag, etc)
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Knightrider on November 05, 2011, 10:29:35 AM
I'm a guy, and I can change. (if I have to) sigh
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dave w on November 05, 2011, 10:40:37 AM
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dhouston on November 05, 2011, 11:30:52 AM
You do have to add a RF transceiver such as the WGL for X10 wireless control.
I have a simple DIY design that captures RF, then sends a noise-free, inverted copy of the data envelope as 38kHz IR. If used with a wideband RF receiver (e.g. RM1SG from RFRemotech) it can capture RF from X10 and non-X10 devices (fans, garage door indicators, etc.) in the 305-325MHz range. If there's any interest I can update it for one of the latest PICs for which there is a bootloader (even for 8-pin PICs) although I already have more on my plate than I'm likely to ever digest.
It needs a serial connection to a PC for learning some codes and then sending them to the Ocelot for training as some things (security devices) send two codes in quick succession and the Ocelot misses the second.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: HA Dave on November 15, 2011, 06:12:25 PM
Had no idea where to put this. I didn't think it was worth a whole new thread. But this was posted on facebook about 3 hours ago. I think it's intersting.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dave w on November 15, 2011, 07:13:29 PM
Had no idea where to put this. I didn't think it was worth a whole new thread. But this was posted on facebook about 3 hours ago. I think it's intersting.

WOHOO! Perhaps the Phoenix is rising. The question is: will it be something X10 manufactures, or just another 3rd party (non intercom) gizmo to resell.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: HA Dave on November 15, 2011, 07:50:56 PM
...The question is: will it be something X10 manufactures, or just another 3rd party (non intercom) gizmo to resell.

I think the era of vertical manufacturing might be nearing it's end. Why actually hire and house an engineer... when so many would gladly work from home. Why own a foreign factory... when those 12 year olds are so hard to manage anyway. If you can find vendors to manufacture by spec and batch, then warehouse in nations friendly to that activity... and so on.

Even Americas Air Force fighter jets... contract with Chinese contractors for parts (no joke). 

I hope it is a new (maybe AirPad friendly) CM15A.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: HA Dave on November 15, 2011, 09:16:45 PM
But the more I think about it.... I wonder if it's a play on words. Is there such a thing as an outercom?
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Noam on November 15, 2011, 10:22:34 PM
But the more I think about it.... I wonder if it's a play on words. Is there such a thing as an outercom?

No, it is because after mentioning for nearly two weeks that they were releasing something new, they posted a link for their wireless intercoms. A few people commented, asking if the intercom was the new product. That's why the X10 rep posted the hint that it WASN'T an intercom.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: orcusomega on November 21, 2011, 06:42:58 PM
[ RANT ]

I have not been as frequent a poster as I have been in the past because, well, I got my system working pretty much as I needed it to.  Now, the entire backbone, the CM15A, is unavailable, after I spent how much putting this thing together?

In my opinion, the CM15K = CR@P.  NOT EVEN CLOSE to the CM15A.  The CM15A is no jewel, but it works (for the most part).  Home automation is not something that just anyone can do if you need the CM15K. 

Bait and switch, in my opinion.  I think that this is cause to look for X10 replacement\upgrades.  Not sure what, yet, but I will need to start looking around.  I have so many macros and so many automated things in my AHP that I would need 10 CM15K's to compensate.

OK, so what's the next logical step in terms of vendors, who I can look at upgrading to?

[/RANT]

Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dave w on November 21, 2011, 06:53:05 PM

Bait and switch, in my opinion.  I think that this is cause to look for X10 replacement\upgrades.  Not sure what, yet, but I will need to start looking around.  I have so many macros and so many automated things in my AHP that I would need 10 CM15K's to compensate.

OK, so what's the next logical step in terms of vendors, who I can look at upgrading to?
For lamps and appliance control,  sensing closures or low voltage, and relay control of low voltage, seems like Smarthome.com would be the most logical. They sell X10 and X10/Insteon protocol products , complete with sticker shock.

For X10 controller/PC interface Jeff Volp and Dave Houston both members of the forum are working on  interface/controller devices.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Noam on November 21, 2011, 09:16:03 PM
[ RANT ]
...
[/RANT]
I don't think "[RANT]" is a valid tag here. ;)
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: JeffVolp on November 21, 2011, 10:01:22 PM
OK, so what's the next logical step in terms of vendors, who I can look at upgrading to?

You might take a look at HomeSeer, Home Control Assistant (HCA), or one of the other PC-based automation systems.  In particular, HCA has a free version that supports only X10 devices.

Most PC-based automation systems will interface to the powerline through the CM11A or CM15A.  Running on an old laptop, it can be an economical way to migrate away from ActiveHome.

Jeff
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: orcusomega on November 22, 2011, 04:48:20 PM
[ RANT ]
...
[/RANT]
I don't think "[RANT]" is a valid tag here. ;)

I know :P  I have been sitting on my hands the last few months, needing to get things ironed out, and now my older parents are getting a new place, and this would be a PERFECT opportunity for me to get them automated as well - and give me some additional remote control/assistance to them...

.... except ....

The ONE piece of the equation, the ONE thing that makes it all possible, is not available, and more disturbingly, X-10 won't confirm or deny whether they are going to get more.  If it was a new product in the pipeline, I could understand since they don't want to sink current sales opportunities who decide to wait for the new stuff - but really?

So yeah, yet another "Are you kidding me" moments here, and I put the RANT tag so that those who didn't want to listen to me whine could skip over the post :)
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: JeffVolp on November 22, 2011, 06:33:38 PM
to The ONE piece of the equation, the ONE thing that makes it all possible, is not available

There are many ways to control an X10 automation system without having a CM15A.  I have been using the Ocelot here for almost a decade.  It is rock solid, and provides the ability to measure real-world parameter's to control things like ventilation and irrigation cycles.  I use HomeVision when I test my X10 devices.  JDS and Elk offer high-end products that control not only X10 but also other automation protocols.  Then there are a bunch of PC-based automation systems that interface to the powerline through either X10 devices or devices offered by SmartHome and ACT (Advanced Control Technology).

The downside is that all alternate controllers are more expensive than the X10 products, which may be why X10 (the company) has apparently run into financial difficulties.

Jeff
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: B.A. on November 22, 2011, 07:19:02 PM

JDS and Elk offer high-end products that control not only X10 but also other automation protocols.

Jeff,

Are you talking about the Elk M1? Can I do everything with it that I can with a CM15A?
What about receiving RF signals from X10 devices?
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: JeffVolp on November 22, 2011, 07:39:00 PM
Are you talking about the Elk M1? Can I do everything with it that I can with a CM15A?
What about receiving RF signals from X10 devices?

I don't own the Elk M1 myself, but I understand it interfaces to the powerline through a TW523 or PSC05.  The XTB-IIR also emulates the TW523 protocol.  The Elk M1 can receive and transmit X10 signals through that powerline interface.

Receiving RF commands would be through an independent transceiver like we do here.  You could use a X10 transceiver such as the RR501 or TM751, or one of the WGL transceivers.  That would convert the RF command to a powerline signal to either directly control devices, or it could be used to trigger an action in the M1.

Jeff
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: B.A. on November 24, 2011, 09:24:00 AM
I don't own the Elk M1 myself, but I understand it interfaces to the powerline through a TW523 or PSC05.  The XTB-IIR also emulates the TW523 protocol.  The Elk M1 can receive and transmit X10 signals through that powerline interface.

Receiving RF commands would be through an independent transceiver like we do here.  You could use a X10 transceiver such as the RR501 or TM751, or one of the WGL transceivers.  That would convert the RF command to a powerline signal to either directly control devices, or it could be used to trigger an action in the M1.


Sounds like I have my backup plan if my CM15A fails!  >!
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Dan Lawrence on November 25, 2011, 09:53:32 AM
I got a spare CM15A from Automated Outlet, however they have now sold every one they had.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: JeffVolp on November 25, 2011, 10:18:05 AM
Only one dealer is still listing them on eBay now.

Jeff
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Walt2 on November 25, 2011, 05:30:43 PM
I'm thinking of something with the CM15A's feature list (minus the bugs), a better RF transceiver coupled with an external antenna port, Ethernet (WiFi as an added option, perhaps?),  a built-in web server with GOOD (upgradable) software, and good battery backup. 

I would like to add IR capabilities like the still-birth CM14A to the wish list.  The CM14A had an IR detector to "learn" (though awkward to point your original remote directly into the controller while its plugged into the wall), and it transmitted IR out to a PowerMid receiver.   You could build macros, that included IR commands mixed in with the normal X10 RF/PL commands.  Kind of a CM15A with an iconRemote built in.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: HA Dave on November 25, 2011, 06:35:34 PM
I would like to add IR capabilities like the still-birth CM14A to the wish list.  The CM14A had an IR detector to "learn" (though awkward to point your original remote directly into the controller while its plugged into the wall), and it transmitted IR out to a PowerMid receiver.   You could build macros, that included IR commands mixed in with the normal X10 RF/PL commands.  Kind of a CM15A with an iconRemote built in.

Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Brian H on November 27, 2011, 09:06:16 AM
If you go on the X10 sales site. To the catalog section. Automation listings.  All the Active Home Pro kits are marked Out Of Stock.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Knightrider on November 27, 2011, 01:31:39 PM
If you go on the X10 sales site. To the catalog section. Automation listings.  All the Active Home Pro kits are marked Out Of Stock.



...and the bell tolls thrice....
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: dave w on November 27, 2011, 03:59:02 PM
Yup, the bell tolls alright. Pretty soon X10 will be nothing but intercoms, tablets, and IP cameras. Each of which can be found cheaper else where. My local Menards (Home Depot clone) had the Westinghouse intercoms cheaper than the X10 site.  :'(
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: orcusomega on November 27, 2011, 06:10:58 PM
Ironically, we are discussing their demise on their own website, and they don't even respond.  Sometimes a lack of response is a response in itself.

Bob
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: HA Dave on November 27, 2011, 11:28:10 PM
Ironically, we are discussing their demise on their own website,

I am not sure ironic is the correct word. I think many of us regulars here will on occasion... moderate our own comments... in regards to some of X10 actions. But.... I don't think X10's problems are completely the fault of X10's actions.

I am convinced by many things, and for many reasons that America is entering into a depression. Whether the depressions cause is blamed on the actions of other nations like China, or Greece (or the PIGS nations). Or if the economic disruption is is blamed on American imperialism... is purely academic.

General Motors, the unrivaled global manufacturing behemoth of generations.... restructured in a special (Government forced) bankruptcy in '09. Bank of America, who created the first Credit Card that was actually usable by the average person. BankAmericard (now Visa) made the already strong and famous bank globally iconic. Yet, BoA stands today only on government aid.

I just hope X10 can jiggle its business model around with a Site similar to Smarthome and others. If X10 can broaden its market and be successful it will be doing better than what some of the best have done recently. And... then... someday... maybe... we might even see a new, completely different, more advanced programable interface device. Which.... X10 will likely also name a CM15A (causing great confusion). Let us just hope... that somethings never change.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Brian H on December 01, 2011, 08:53:34 AM
I see on the X10 web site. They now have SkyLink Security Systems and Remote Lighting Kits.
Guess their products are almost gone.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Noam on December 01, 2011, 09:25:45 AM
I see on the X10 web site. They now have SkyLink Security Systems and Remote Lighting Kits.
Guess their products are almost gone.
They are branching out. I have no idea what their strategy is, but I guess they felt that focusing mainly on Home Automation was not longer as profitable as they needed it to be.

They have been indicating (both on Facebook and in e-mails I've gotten) that there will be new Home Automation products coming out, but based on this Skylink system, I'm afraid they might be the SkyLink ones, which are 100% NOT compatible with X10.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: HA Dave on December 01, 2011, 04:37:55 PM
They are branching out......... I guess they felt that focusing mainly on Home Automation was no longer as profitable as they needed it to be.

The only thing that ever stays the same.... is change. But to be honest it breaks my heart (a little) to see X10 the company... turn away from X10 products. Although to be honest... the Sky Link security (alarm) system looks like a nice unit... at a really decent price.

I just feel like without X10 products... I have very little function here at the forum... as I have never used any of the new products offered at the X10 Site. For years now... I have joyfully advocated Voice Controlled Home Automation and Bill's Voice Commander. But.... without a CM15A.... there isn't an economical, computerized, way to interface with the automation.
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: JeffVolp on December 01, 2011, 05:31:46 PM
But.... without a CM15A.... there isn't an economical, computerized, way to interface with the automation.

Quite a few of my customers are migrating away from AHP.  One PC-based automation system that I use for testing is Home Control Assistant.  They offer a free "X10 Only" version.  It can use the CM15A, CM11A, or XTB-232 as a powerline interface.

Others are switching to HomeSeer.  That is a powerful PC-based automation system that can use the same powerline interfaces, but it is pretty expensive.

Jeff
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: HA Dave on December 01, 2011, 05:53:09 PM
Quite a few of my customers are migrating away from AHP.  One PC-based automation system that I use for testing is Home Control Assistant.  They offer a free "X10 Only" version.  It can use the CM15A, CM11A, or XTB-232 as a powerline interface.
Jeff

Sorry Jeff... I didn't mean to leave out your XTB-232 (http://jvde.us/xtb_index.htm). I have read nothing but glowing reviews about it. And it is very affordable. I just haven't used one myself.... and only meant to comment on own knowledge base. The XTB-232 (http://jvde.us/xtb_index.htm) is a fine solution to the X10 interface problem. But... now that I am thinking about it.... what Voice Control products could be used with the XTB-232 (http://jvde.us/xtb_index.htm).

But to be honest.... I likely won't be reconfiguring anytime soon. I own two backup CM15As and one CM11A... as well as a CM19A and several TM751s  (in boxes).
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: JeffVolp on December 01, 2011, 06:34:04 PM
But... now that I am thinking about it.... what Voice Control products could be used with the XTB-232 (http://jvde.us/xtb_index.htm).

The XTB-232 supports the "real-time" CM11A protocol.  Basically, you send it a command in the CM11A format over the RS232 interface, and it forwards it to the powerline in the X10 PLC format.  The reverse is true on receive.  If any Voice Control product will work with the CM11A, then it should also work with the XTB-232, using the PC as the automation controller.

I'm a charter member of the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it club."  So I can certainly understand not wanting to reconfigure.  You should be fine for a long time with a couple of backup units.

Jeff
Title: Re: No more CM15A's
Post by: Dan Lawrence on December 01, 2011, 07:51:04 PM
I have a bunch of older modules plus a spare CM15A and a backup file of AHP going back at least 4 years.  I'm probably good for 10 or more years.