X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: msk007 on January 13, 2012, 03:17:07 PM
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I used to be a die-hard X10 fan. I used to sing them praises of great support and service to everyone I knew.... I last ordered from them in 2008 before this week. We had a power surge that wiped everything out. So, I went online on Monday and ordered everything that I needed with express shipping. Since I still hadn't heard anything beyond the original confirmation email, I called on Tuesday to check the ststus. No answer for support after 25 minutes on the line. Hung up, pressed 1 & 1 to get a person as if I was placing a new order: 3 minutes and I was on the line with a person. Hmmmm....
While talking to the person I explained that I hadn't heard anything and the person said it was already shipped and should arrive Friday. Today, FedEx and UPS have already came and no x10 pacakage. Hmmm.... SO, I called support. Same story as last time except I only waited 10 minutes (just to see if it was the same story or a fluke) and then placed another call as if it was a new order. The lady answering today said that everything on my order was backordered so nothing has been shipped yet. Hmmm: What did the first person see that indicated it was shipped? Well, I let the lady todya know how unhappy I was with this order and her only response was: "Do you want the 2 pin applicance module? It's that same as the 3 pin except just has one less pin.".... Well.... That one pin makes a big difference for safety... So, I said: OK: How quickly can you get those to me? Her response: "Probably won't ship until Monday, so probably Wednesday at the earliest". OK: It's only 2pm on Friday, why wouldn't this ship today or saturday?!. BUT... I kept going anyway.... I asked if I would have to pay the extra for the shipping or would x10 since they gave incorrect information and then never called or emailed to correct it. Response: "Ummm, you would have to pay for the difference".....
Wow....
I cancelled the order and won't likely be back as a customer... I've been using their products since 2000 and this is the first time that I was extremely "wow'd" by their now-lack-of customer service. Is this now common of x10? Was there a change of ownership? What happened to the good guys at x10?!?!
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I used to be a die-hard X10 fan. I used to sing them praises of great support and service to everyone I knew....
I am STILL a big fan of X10! But in my many years of posting here at the forum... I have read many complaints about X10's customer service. I've called customer service myself... and was never impressed with their "phone skills". X10 staff isn't involved with the forums here so I wouldn't expect this post to "shake things up" at headquarters ether. But thanks for sharing with us. I hope your cancellation with that order goes well. Be sure to check your credit card.
X10 does seem to be having some issues lately... as are MANY businesses in America. Hope you can hang with them... they are doing the best they can.. I am sure.
...We had a power surge that wiped everything out. So, I went online on Monday and ordered everything that I needed with express shipping.
I feel your pain! I myself had a lighting strike in my backyard a few years ago. Not only did I lose a bunch of stuff the very second it happened... but I really believe many devices died an early death because of the surge.
I understand your frustration. But I can assure you it all goes back together in time. Good luck with your replacements.
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I'm glad that you still are a big fan. This experience was so bad, I think I may have to move to SmartHome. I had to go buy old mechanical timers for the interim: How lame is that?!?!
I do find it interesting that the people at x10 don't monitor their own forum. I wrote a letter to the CEO, we'll see if it goes anywhere. I'll post back if I hear something back from them. I'm not expecting to.
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Some say comments on their Facebook page gets more responses.
Smarthome recently released some new X10 only modules.
I have tested a few of them and the reviews are posted here.
Some of the very reliable X10 dealers on EBay also may have what you need.
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..... I had to go buy old mechanical timers for the interim: How lame is that?!?!
I don't mind using NON-X10 products.... if other brands or simpler devices can do the trick. A plain old vanilla timer or motion sensor switch can sometimes be the right fix. I use a hardwired dusk/dawn sensor I've had for many years, and I also use motion sensor switches that are very fast... and can't conflict with my X10 modules.
I do find it interesting that the people at x10 don't monitor their own forum.
There are some pretty smart and knowledgeable contributors here at the forum that share their time... free of charge. Who would mess with an arrangement like that?
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I'm glad that you still are a big fan. This experience was so bad, I think I may have to move to SmartHome. I had to go buy old mechanical timers for the interim: How lame is that?!?!
I do find it interesting that the people at x10 don't monitor their own forum. I wrote a letter to the CEO, we'll see if it goes anywhere. I'll post back if I hear something back from them. I'm not expecting to.
I have been using X10 for many years. I found order from x10 directly is slower than some eBay dealers. Although some special package deal can only find directly from X10. I feel sorry for your experience, especially the lightening damage to your X10 gears. Newer X10 gears are better support CFL bulbs, and they also cost less than 10 years ago. Smarthome products works in most cases. I had few in wall switch from Smarthome did not switch CFL bulb well. They might fixed it in recent batch. Smarthome products is also higher priced than X10.
Although there is no execuse if their supports don't know what they talked about, I also feel sympathetic for X10 itself. For products at this price point, it is hard to afford hiring the best support engineers, managers. In addition, they have a lot of shipping points. For most people answering calls in x10 office, they can only read from their computer screen. It is different from smaller eBay dealers who can walk back to their warehouse to check it for verifying order shipments. Each time when I place order with X10 directly, I just wait, many times more than a week for the shipment to come. But they will come at end.
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I actually submitted my order by phone directly to a lady in customer service 1/4/12. X-10 was paid in full by my bank 1/6/12 and after 3 emails with no response and 2 phone calls today, Saturday, 1/21/12 I was finally able to get ONLY my order number and was told the order still had not been shipped yet. Something about my wrong email, yet daily I get one or more newsletters from X10 trying to sell me more things. I even offered to pay additional monies so I could get the order faster and was basically told tough, it should, SHOULD, be mailed monday 1/23 and would probably take 7 business days to get it after that. This is definitely bad salesmanship and customer service. I love the products, but the pain and suffering of trying to find out why you have taken my money yet not delivered what I ordered is not worth it. This is not the first time I have had to wait almost a month to get my order. You need more staff or something and I hope this is not happening to other customers. After I receive this last order, if I ever receive it, I doubt I will ever order from your company again, no matter how good the actual products may be. Phyllis Small
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Phyllis,
This is a users forum. Generally X10 gives little indication that they monitor it.
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007,
The posts are just too suspicious but I shall suspend paranoia in the hopes this actually is read by an accountable X-10 employee and something is done. They have gone straight to hell in a hand basket. Being ensconced in my final home purchase, made infinitely more comfortable by 20 years of collecting X-10 gadgets, which I will always embrace as the greatest gadgets of all time, their service at Christmas has forced me to never trust them again. I will tell the story in my next post.
Tune in for Zapp's personal Christmas Story,
Next post.
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007,
I purchased an X-10 newsletter deal on December 20th 2011. Giant Home Security System intended as Christmas Gift for youngest son in order to close him out for the 2011 season. I consented to an online conversation with Associate which led to X-10 contacting me on my land-line to confirm my online order. That was my 1st mistake. Eric, whom I assume was employed by X-10, assured me if ordered the "Giant Home Security System" would arrive in 3 day's, 2 day's before Christmas and merrily entered my payment method, etc. which had previously been forwarded online before 1st mistake. I received an E-mail from Eric on December 23rd stating "Giant Home Security System" was not in stock and would be forwarded in January but it could possibly be longer, He wasn't positive on actual date whereupon I replied cancelling the order. I received reply from Eric acknowledging cancellation and remorse as to unavailability of "Giant Home Security System" heavily advertised and ordered 4 days past. 2nd mistake: I assumed deal was done as why would Eric & X-10 lie to me? I, meanwhile had to procure replacement for aborted order as my Wife has for 23 years insisted both Son's Christmas gifts monetarily match and it being 2 days before Christmas I was forced to physically acquire balancing purchase locally. Thanks Eric. During this frenzy, when checking account balances I realized X-10 had charged my account the day I ordered the "Giant Home Security System" and not on the shipping date as every online seller I dealt with at Christmas had done. They had taken my money for a "Giant Home Security System" they didn't have. I contacted Eric once more and was assured it would be credited within 10 day's. I believed him amounting to 3rd mistake & 3rd strike for X-10. Today, 37 days after original order I received my promised credit. Read next post.
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007,
If X-10 cons 1000 idiots like me, they receive a $600,000.00 loan interest free for 30 day's. Read my previous 2 posts on this subject and think about what I'm saying. I'm going to miss them badly, but blatantly being lied to for no reason other than making that withdrawal from your account and then hiding and stalling because they know they can do it says horrible things about X-10 and the dangers and costs of the Internet.
Buyer Beware,
Zapp
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007,
If X-10 cons 1000 idiots like me people, they receive a $600,000.00 loan interest free for 30 day's.
Oh give me a break. You got your credit [as you stated below]. Your "interest income" example worked well back in 1978.... but with 2011/12 interest rates... NOT so much. At this point you're just ranting.
............ Today, 37 days after original order I received my promised credit. Read next post.
Your credit card should have never been charged! But it was... and it was credited back. I don't know why those things happen... I don't work for X10. This is a community forum. This isn't anything we can help you with. Actually.... until someone masters time travel... I think your stuck with this entire matter as being something that happened in the PAST.
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Perhaps you should have called your credit card company at the first sign of trouble, and dispute the charge. The seller charged you for an item they never provided, and that you in fact cancelled. I'm pretty sure most credit-card companies will "go to bat" for customers when they dispute charges like that.
While I've read plenty of stories like this one with regard to X10 over the past several months, I can't recall reading a single case where the customer contacted their credit card company for assistance. Perhaps I missed one in there, but I'm curious to know how different the situation might have been had you asked your credit card company for help right away.
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Why should you even have to be burdened to contact your credit card company?
They don't have the product you purchased...refund the money...end of story.
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Why should you even have to be burdened to contact your credit card company?
They don't have the product you purchased...refund the money...end of story.
You're right. You shouldn't HAVE to do it. However, the credit card companies like to get their money as well.
Remember, credit cards are different from debit cards. With a debit card, YOU are sending the money directly to the vendor (well, via your bank). With a credit card, VISA (used here by example, it could just as easily be MasterCard, Discover, Amex, etc) is sending the money to the vendor, and then sending you a bill you pay them back.
When you call VISA (well, really whichever bank issues the card, but I'm going to keep using VISA in my example) and say something like "Company X charged me for product Y, then told me they can't send it to me because they don't have it, and I don't want to pay for a purchase that was never completed," you are really saying, "YOU (VISA) paid Company X for a product they never sent me. I don't want t pay you (VISA) back for that, since I never got anything. If you (VISA) want your money back, YOU (VISA) call Company X and deal with it."
The credit card company will usually (from my experience with other disreputable sellers in the past) contact the vendor to investigate the issue, and work it out. From the one experience I had (with a different company, not X10), the credit card company issued me the credit back right away (well, it took a day or two to show up on my online statement), and THEN went to chase after the other company to get their money back.
That's my take on it, at least.
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Along the same lines, though, are they even ALLOWED to charge your card before they ship the item? I know that just about every other vendor I deal with (at least I can't think of one who is different) waits to charge the card until the product ships (or at least until it is boxed up with a shipping label, waiting for the shipper to pick it up).
There has to be some reason why they (nearly) all do it this way.
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..... are they even ALLOWED to charge your card before they ship the item? There has to be some reason why they (nearly) all do it this way.
Yes vendors can accept cash, a check, or charge a credit card at the time a purchase is made. I think the trend of charging at the time of shipping is a show of good faith that predates the fast delivery times we have today. There is no requirement in my state that would cause any vendor to wait till a certain point in the sales process to receive money(s).
It would appear that the connection between sales, shipping, and customer service is somewhat disrupted. I don't know how new that is to X10. All this could be a new software package, staffing changes, or whatever. I would just guess... that X10 can't keep track of how little inventory they now have.
Certainly with today's bank deposit interest rates... there is no benefit for X10 to hold a few thousand dollars. The administration of such a fund would cost considerably more than any income it could generate.
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Along the same lines, though, are they even ALLOWED to charge your card before they ship the item?
If you (using the figurative you) sell something on eBay, eBay actually recommends that you don't ship until you see payment.
If you accept payment by Paypal, you cannot even use the Paypal shipping tool until the payment is cleared - this commonly happens when the buyer pays by eCheck via Paypal.
Mail-order sales always have been, and always will be, a matter of trust. The vendor wants to be sure of payment BEFORE the goods leave his hands. The buyer wants the goods in his hands BEFORE he parts with the money. Since one of these things must happen first when there is the delay necessary by shipping, someone will always complain.
It's unfortunate that X10 has a poor refund policy. It's unfortunate that X10 'sells' stuff that they cannot deliver.
I would imagine that the hours they spend in processing payments and refunds by far outweighs any interest earned in holding that money for 30 days. $600 at, let's say 0.5% for a month would yield about 25c - manpower to process a credit card and resultant refund probably takes somewhere around 20 minutes - at minimum wage they'd be paying about $2.50 to gain a quarter.
Isn't there something about being as happy as a man who found a penny and lost a dollar?
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If you (using the figurative you) sell something on eBay, eBay actually recommends that you don't ship until you see payment.
If you accept payment by Paypal, you cannot even use the Paypal shipping tool until the payment is cleared - this commonly happens when the buyer pays by eCheck via Paypal......
.... I would imagine that the hours they spend in processing payments and refunds by far outweighs any interest earned in holding that money for 30 days. $600 at, let's say 0.5% for a month would yield about 25c - manpower to process a credit card and resultant refund probably takes somewhere around 20 minutes - at minimum wage they'd be paying about $2.50 to gain a quarter.
Thank you. I think your explanation was clearer than mine. X10 may be having some issues... but their practices and intentions seem normal enough. I certainly DON"T think they're doing anything crooked... as some have implied.
But I also worked in banking and Noam has a great point as well. It only takes a phone call to stop (or delay) payment on a charge that a user thinks is iffy. It's not that I don't sympathise with the users... I do. But I also feel they might be overreacting a tad.
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Any GOOD stock control system would know when an item was out of stock before processing the order.
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Any GOOD stock control system would know when an item was out of stock before processing the order.
Any GOOD web order processing system would be connected to the stock control system and cease order processing on a particular item when stocks become low.
When it comes to the X10 website, I don't think good is a word that should be used too loosely :)
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For whatever the reason(s)... stock control is apparently not working at the order processing level.
The way any network is administrated.... is based on permissions and group membership. From the stories I've read, it would NOT appear that sales (group) has [direct] permissions to view stock levels. But it does seem to appear that once an order has been placed (and processed) the status and/or availability of the merchandise is known.... at least at the customer service (group) level. It could be as simple as including salespeople in stock/inventory control group. At least... with limited permissions in that group.
Then, it would only be a matter of using a software that would allow for a seemless way to check availability. Or a motivation for salespeople to check stock availability at the time an order is placed.
Of course... in any modern software system... all that would be automatic and a saleperson would not be able to process orders without knowing if some merchandise was out of stock. So ether the processing software is poorly administrated... or salespeople are more motivated to complete/close/process sales than be upfront about stock problems. Guess where I'd bet the problem is.
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Along the same lines, though, are they even ALLOWED to charge your card before they ship the item?
I realized after I posted this, that my question doesn't make any sense. The examples given with eBay and PayPal prove that point.
OF COURSE they can accept payment before shipping the item. However, doing so - especially for an item that they know isn't available - is not a very nice thing to do (and may border on some ethical gray areas, too).
As for their inventory management, I have a strong feeling that this is a case of "the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing."
Their website should indicate when an item is out of stock, and warn the customer that it is not available, and/or is on back-order, with an estimated arrival date. That would be much more helpful to the customer, and would probably help swing the average customer experience for the better.
To go one further, perhaps instead of charging when the order is placed (as they do now), charge only AFTER confirming the item is in stock and available to ship. For orders that are in stock, not much would change (they get the money, they ship the item, etc). For items that are not in stock, it would reduce customer dissatisfaction, as well as the amount of work needed to process refunds for cancelled orders.
They can certainly put a hold on the credit card for the amount of the purchase, at the time of the purchase. However, it seems a lot easier to cancel a hold, than it is to reverse a transaction, at least for them.
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I think when people ordering online, the merchant normally authorize the amount, but without actually charge the card. However, credit card company will take that amount away from your available credit line. Within few days, if merchant did not "finalize" the charge, the credit will be automatically released by the credit card company.
Merchant never had that money in its account during this process. They only got money when they finalize the charge process. I think he placed a phone order, and the order taking person took down the email address wrong, then the item was not in stock, those all unfortunate things. X10 does need to have better training for their order desk people. But I don't think X10 has any bad intention.
I normally rather to place an order online than talk to sales desk people -- a lot of them work on minmum wage with minimum training, the chance of writing down email address wrong is almost certain. Even when I placed order with Canon parts department, they constantly got email address wrong. That is unfortunate normal for them.
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Yes. My orders placed on line normally put a reserved hold on the amount of the order to my credit card.
I had a vendors computer one time hiccup and reserved twenty four backup generators to my credit card. Virtually locking the card out with no more funds available. B:(