X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: rfmtm on March 30, 2012, 06:31:54 PM
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Using latest AHP with a CM11A controller and X10 modules. Cleared everything out, set a simple on and off timer for legacy lamp module set at 100%, and another timer for an appliance module. Both work manually from AHP.
Downloaded to the CM11A. The appliance module goes on and off at the correct time. The lamp modules do not turn on, but do turn off at the correct time. Am I missing something?
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Yes. Soft Start
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/SoftStart
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The later versions of AHP have two Lamp Module Tabs.
The Lamp Module Tab is for Soft Start type devices and use Extended Commands older modules do not understand.
The Older Lamp {Before Soft Start} Tab is where you should be defining modules that are not Soft Start.
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Yes, I am already aware of the two different types of lamp modules and their selection in AHP. I have try using both, but neither will turn on using a timer downloaded to the CM11A, but always turn off at the correct time and can manually be activated from AHP.
Did not have this problem with AH, but when I upgraded to a Windows 7 machine and had to now use AHP the problem started. I have read every thread here and tried all suggestion without solution.
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It's been a long time since I used a CM11A but I seem to remember it didn't do macros, but did do timers. the CM11A was built for Active Home, the predecessor of the CM15A and Active home Pro. I stopped using AH/CM11A when I upgraded my old PC to Windows XP. The motherboard did funny things to serial ports and played havoc with the CM11A which would vanish and reappear, so I upgraded to AHP/CM15A in 2005. AHP would convert your AH files to .ahp files so you didn't lose your timers and I created my only keystroke macro (which turns off lights on 3 housecode with a press of A5 OFF on a MC460 desktop controller.
I got rid of my AH equipment in 2005 so I don't know how the CM11A works with AHP.
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Well except for the on timer for lamps modules, AHP and the CM11A seem to work without a problem with my Windows 7 machine. All the timers for the appliance modules work just fine and any commands from AHP to the CM11A works every time as well. Only the downloaded on timers for lamp modules (new or old) does not work.
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The CM11A was built long before Soft Start modules came along. The work around is to establish any Soft Start modules as LM14A modules. Try that for any SoftStart modules and see if that fixes that.
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Dan; The latest AHP runs on the CM11A. The user can use the Old Lamp {before Soft Start} for any older Lamp modules they have and not have to do the work around of the LM14A for Soft Start.
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Are the Appliance Modules and the Lamp Modules on the same X10 Address?
The Lamp Modules are the older ones that don't have Soft Start?
Should only effect Macros but in preferences is it set to issue an On in place of a Bright 100%?
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Appliance models and lamp modules are on the same house code, but not the same module address.
I have both old and new lamp modules, neither turn on with a timer, but otherwise operate fine.
Per your suggestion I changed preferences to issue On instead of 100% Bright, but have no Macros in place. Will test tonight anyway.
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Just tested with the preferences set to send On command instead of 100%. No change, timer will still not turn lamp modules on.
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Are you mixing old style and soft start module on the same house code? Try putting the soft start modules on a separate housecode.
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What does the Activity Monitor show when the timers run, and what does it show when you turn the light on manually in AHP?
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Mixing or not mixing old and new lamp modules makes no difference.
The Activity Monitor at best is confusing as it only shows some activity and not everything.
Does it upload from the CM11A? If so information is incomplete.
It does seem to show anything manually executed from the AHP.
Please elaborate on exactly how and what the monitor should show.
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Well last night the lamp modules, both old and new, came on as scheduled with the timer. I had made to no changes and did not even run AHP yesterday.
At the time the lights came on, the computer was on and connected to the CM11A, but AHP was not running. Does the computer being on, or whether AHP is running, make any difference at all, if everything is downloaded the the CM11A?
Guess I'll have to wait till tonight to see if it continues to work correctly.
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I have been testing with my CM11A.
When I tried to download a few tests timers. It hung up in a never ending downloading mode and locked up.
Yes if the computer is running you will most likely find X10nets.exe running as it starts when Windows Opens and it handles stored timers even if AHP is not opened.
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I do see X10nets running. So are you saying that it was the X10nets timers that turned on the lights and not the timers downloaded into the CM11A?
I have had the computer on before and the lights still did not come on, but I also had AHP running.
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I am not sure if AHP downloads anything to a CM11A.
I downloaded through AHP a few timers.
Then ran the old AH and it said all of the download area was 100% free while AHP indicated about 4 % of memory was used.
Unfortunately I am not an X10 software person so I hope others can add more data.
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Maybe we can get X10 Repair Depot to let us know how AHP works or doesn't work with a CM11A.
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I don't think the CM11 has any memory for storing programs. It's been 20 years since I used one but am faily sure it needed a computer 100% of the time. $0.02
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No the CM11 worked fine with the older AH program. The new AHP does download to it, and many functions work fine including the timer to turn lamps off, and appliance modules on and off. Just the timers will not turn the lamps back on.
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CM11A has a small amount of on board memory for storage.
If memory serves me. A precise dusk dawn table downloaded to it almost filled it up. Most of us used the less accurate tables as it took less room.
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When the timers worked with the PC running, what did the Activity Monitor show for those timer commands?
How does that compare to when you manually turn the lights on and off?
Did you try defining the lamp modules as LM14A's, and see what happens?
Are the timers accidentally set to "run from PC," instead of "Store in Interface"?
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Looking now, the Activity Monitor correctly showed the on command and the lights did indeed turn on. The Monitor also shows correctly when activated manually.
With the computer off, and it would appear when AHP is running, the Monitor later shows no on command and the lights do not turn on at the preset time.
Regardless of how the lamp modules are set, the results are the same.
All timers are set to Store in Interface.
So it would appear if the computer is running, but AHP is not, the lights work with the timers. But with the computer off, only the timers for the appliances and the lights off command work.
Just before upgrading to AHP everything work fine, so it would appear AHP is not setting up the CM11A properly to use the timers to turn the lights on.
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It sounds like the timer being stored is not storing the same command that is run when the Pc is on.
It sounds like with the Pc running, timers and macros (even those stored in the interface) get run from the PC. (I can't verify that, but that's what it sounds like to me at least).
You said that the Activity Monitor shows the correct "on" command for the lights.
What is the EXACT command you see (is it a "Bright 100," an "Extended Dim," or an "On" command?
What about when you manually turn on the light via the AHP interface?
AHP cannot capture any events if the PC is off, so it is understandable that you won't see anything in the AHP event logs for the time the PC was turned off.
However, the X10nets service should be running as a background service, even when AHP is not open. As long as it is running (with the unit attached of course), it will try to capture those events.
When you shut the PC down, are you disconnecting the serial cable from the CM11A? I remember reading something a number of years ago about the CM11A not running timer and macros correctly if the cable was left attached, but the PC was shut down. You might try unplugging the cable (and for some reason it seemed to make a difference if you unplugged the CM11A-end of the cable or if you unplugged the PC-end), and seeing if there is any difference.
Also, please confirm that timers for BOTH the SoftStart AND the Non-softStart modules are the ones that are not turning on.
I suspect the CM11A might not be properly storing the Extended Dim commands, while it storing the "simple" commands (on/off) just fine.
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Noam.......I think you pretty much summed it up. As to the Monitor here is some more specifics. When turned on manually from AHP the Monitor shows the "ON" command. When AHP is not running, but X10nets is, the Monitor shows the command to be "Bright 100", however, both old and new lamp modules turn on.
When running on the CM11A (PC off), neither the soft-start or the older lamp modules turn on with a timer, but the appliance modules will.
I can try unplugging the cable to the CM11A, but don't recall having to do that with the older AH software.
Seems a very basic problem like this would affect a lot of users as there are still a lot of CM11A out there.
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You would think it could effect many CM11A users.
One of the independent X10 dealers bought a production run of recent CM11As and still has 1850 of them. They also made a deal with X10 for getting a AHP license with out purchasing a CM15A or CM15K to get it.
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Brian.........yes I have seen dealers and online sellers still selling the CM11A with the claim that is is 100% compatible with the new AHP software.
Certainly using a simple timer is a very basic thing to do, so strange that I have this problem and no one else apparently does. I would just think I had a bad CM11 other than it worked before on AH and the fact that it is only one function that doesn't work and everything else does.
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I am not sure how many CM11A users have AHP.
I believe a large majority of them are using Linux based or third party automation programs.
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Well tonight the computer was on and AHP was not running, and the lights did not come on like they did last night under the same conditions. However, as usual the appliance modules all came on as scheduled. So something is just not right or is intermittent.
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Yawn.
The CM11A does not have enough memory to "download" programs. It only acts as a computer to PLC interface.
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Active Home for the CM11A has no problems downloading timers and macros to a CM11A. Just limited space to how many would fit.
Probably would also have DST and newer Operating Systems issues. ;)
Active Home Pro seems to be flawed when connected to a CM11A and with X10s present state of affairs. I doubt much will be done with it.
As they are no longer selling the CM11A. Only third party X10 dealers are selling them.
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Makes you wonder why X10 made AHP use the CM11A if there's so many problems.
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To rule out any difference in the module definition, you can try defining ALL of them as appliance modules (in AHP), and seeing if that makes a difference in the way the modules react.
You might just have some signal/noise issues that are interfering with the signals.
The CM11A might be sending out the right signals, but the signals aren't making to the modules clearly.
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Makes you wonder why X10 made AHP use the CM11A if there's so many problems.
The way I heard the story (from someone who is no longer at X10), they had an OEM customer who requested it (I think for use with the SDK, not necessarily with AHP itself).
Using the CM11A with AHP was never going to be able to replace the functionality of the CM15A, but the older AH had lots of issues with Windows XP and later versions.
this at least give *some* of the functions.
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Makes you wonder why X10 made AHP use the CM11A if there's so many problems.
The way I heard the story (from someone who is no longer at X10), they had an OEM customer who requested it (I think for use with the SDK, not necessarily with AHP itself).
Using the CM11A with AHP was never going to be able to replace the functionality of the CM15A, but the older AH had lots of issues with Windows XP and later versions.
this at least give *some* of the functions.
The main issue was some motherboards would cause serial ports to vanish (and reappear with no warning) with XP. My old computer (two computers ago) did it and that's why I switched to AHP/CM15A.
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Nothing still explains why it appears AHP downloads everything correctly to the CM11A except for the lights on timer data. The older AH apparently did as it worked. But so far it is the only function not working using AHP, as the other timers for appliancea execute fine as do the lights off timer.
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Nothing still explains why it appears AHP downloads everything correctly to the CM11A except for the lights on timer data. The older AH apparently did as it worked. But so far it is the only function not working using AHP, as the other timers for appliancea execute fine as do the lights off timer.
$0.02
I'm no software guy, but here is my thoughts, and one of our software experts can correct as needed. The processor in the CM11A only has 1K of memory. AH (original) was written for the CM11A (and original Firecracker I think) so AH was probably pretty good at compiling down to make the most use of that meager 1K. AHP on the other hand was designed for the CM15A which has substantially more memory. And as Noam has pointed out, adding CM11 to AHP hardware interface capabilities was an after thought, so probably done in haste (IMHO). Also IMHO the fact that AHP says it down loaded the program timers, macros, etc to the CM11A, means absolutely nothing. My guess is AHP just pukes out the download with no check sum checks afterward, and then reports it did it.
Does everything work when you run everything for computer?
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Dave......yes everything works from the computer. I only have a couple of simple timers and nothing like dusk/dawn timers that would take up any memory space in the CM11A. I also made sure to clear the CM11A memory first, anything else purged before programming.
The CM11 on its own, the only thing that doesn't work is the lights on timer. All the other timer functions downloaded work as expected.
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I suspect that there is a bug in the code, that is storing the timers incorrectly for lamp modules. Since they use a different type of "on" command that Appliance modules do (they are generally either sent a "Bright 100" or an "Extended Dim" type of command.
What command does the Activity Monitor show when the CM11A is connected to the PC (and the PC is turned on), during the time the timers should be running?
Are the timers for the Appliance modules and the Lamp modules set for the same time?
If so, change the times so they are a minute apart. I have seen issues with my own setup, where timers for different module types that are set to run at the same minute don't run properly.
(That is with AHP and a CM15A, but it might make a difference for the CM11A, too).
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Changed the timers for the appliance modules to something different than the turn on time for the lights. Same problem.
Lights didn't turn on tonight so Activity Monitor only showed the appliance module on commands.
I can't believe I'm the only one with this problem. Lots of CM11A are still be sold along with AHP to control them.
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Dave......yes everything works from the computer.
This hasn't sunk in yet, has it....