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🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: X10 Repair Depot on September 06, 2012, 08:13:19 AM

Title: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: X10 Repair Depot on September 06, 2012, 08:13:19 AM
All,

I just received word that all of the issues that were holding up the re-release of the CM15A (including cost) have been resolved. We should have stock by early October. The item is a CM15A, so it will not be a completely new unit. I do not know what, if any, changes or improvements have been made to the unit.


Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Tuicemen on September 06, 2012, 08:28:04 AM
That is good news. #:)
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on September 06, 2012, 09:29:32 AM
X10 based automation lives again!
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: hawk1 on September 06, 2012, 10:03:35 AM
HooRay!   :)%
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Tyler E on September 06, 2012, 10:33:53 AM
That is AMAZING news! :o
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on September 06, 2012, 10:38:56 AM
...I do not know what, if any, changes or improvements have been made to the unit.

1. Is there any way you can find out? THAT would be very good information to have.

2. If there have been ANY changes to the design of the hardware, it would *really* be a good idea to change the model number, or at least add a revision number on the label.

3. Will there be ab update to AHP released in conjunction with the re-release of the CM15A? We haven't had an update since October of 2011.
There are a lot of bugs that are still in the software (check out the link to the Bug List here on the forums - in my signature), and it would be wonderful if you have a developer who can try and squash some of them (without introducing others, of course).
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on September 06, 2012, 11:00:36 AM
That sounds good.
I hope the firmware in it was looked at for glitches. So total power resets and reloads are not needed.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on September 06, 2012, 11:20:42 AM
That sounds good.
I hope the firmware in it was looked at for glitches. So total power resets and reloads are not needed.
Since it was released, we have all asked "why didn't they spend a drop more and put in flash-able firmware?"

That would have fixed a number of issues, AND probably allowed them to add features to some of the plugins AND let them run without a PC (for some things, at least).

I'm sure they DIDN'T follow our suggestion this time, though. :(

Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on September 06, 2012, 11:26:06 AM
If they used the same controller IC. I don't think the internal EPROM is easy to reprogram if at all possible.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Alan V on September 06, 2012, 11:55:08 AM
That sounds good.
I hope the firmware in it was looked at for glitches. So total power resets and reloads are not needed.
Since it was released, we have all asked "why didn't they spend a drop more and put in flash-able firmware?"

That would have fixed a number of issues, AND probably allowed them to add features to some of the plugins AND let them run without a PC (for some things, at least).

I'm sure they DIDN'T follow our suggestion this time, though. :(



Yeah, I wouldn't count on it.  The old CM15A design didn't even have decoupling capacitors on the ICs.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: cjhallx on September 06, 2012, 12:41:58 PM
If you can't wait I put a used one on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150895560032?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/150895560032?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649)

Starting bid is only $59.00
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on September 06, 2012, 01:28:39 PM
So true Alan V.
That is why there was a mod thread here on adding them.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: X10 Repair Depot on September 06, 2012, 02:47:22 PM
...I do not know what, if any, changes or improvements have been made to the unit.

1. Is there any way you can find out? THAT would be very good information to have.

2. If there have been ANY changes to the design of the hardware, it would *really* be a good idea to change the model number, or at least add a revision number on the label.

3. Will there be ab update to AHP released in conjunction with the re-release of the CM15A? We haven't had an update since October of 2011.
There are a lot of bugs that are still in the software (check out the link to the Bug List here on the forums - in my signature), and it would be wonderful if you have a developer who can try and squash some of them (without introducing others, of course).


Noam,

Even if I were to ask what, if any, changes are going to be made to the unit or software I would not be able to share it here. <<<Don't read anything into that statement, I really do not know.

Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Walt2 on September 07, 2012, 10:07:30 AM
We should have stock by early October.

Wow.   :)%

I would have been willing to bet good money that it would never happen.   >!
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Walt2 on September 07, 2012, 10:11:40 AM
Since it was released, we have all asked "why didn't they spend a drop more and put in flash-able firmware?"

Even before the release, during beta-testing, we asked the same thing.   We had to keep shipping the beta units back and forth for every fix.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on September 07, 2012, 10:30:44 AM
...I do not know what, if any, changes or improvements have been made to the unit.

1. Is there any way you can find out? THAT would be very good information to have.

2. If there have been ANY changes to the design of the hardware, it would *really* be a good idea to change the model number, or at least add a revision number on the label.

3. Will there be ab update to AHP released in conjunction with the re-release of the CM15A? We haven't had an update since October of 2011.
There are a lot of bugs that are still in the software (check out the link to the Bug List here on the forums - in my signature), and it would be wonderful if you have a developer who can try and squash some of them (without introducing others, of course).


Noam,
Even if I were to ask what, if any, changes are going to be made to the unit or software I would not be able to share it here. <<<Don't read anything into that statement, I really do not know.
Well, that's going to make it hard to convince people to buy the new unit, if you can't even tell them what (if anything) is different. The user base here has a lot of *really* smart folks, who like to test things like this BEFORE there is an opportunity to screw up their setups. With all of the known bugs in both the original CM15A, and AHP, I think a fair number of people would buy a new one, if they knew that some of the bugs were fixed (like the clock drift, the lockups, RF reception, etc).
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: X10 Repair Depot on September 07, 2012, 11:33:03 AM
Quote
Well, that's going to make it hard to convince people to buy the new unit, if you can't even tell them what (if anything) is different. The user base here has a lot of *really* smart folks, who like to test things like this BEFORE there is an opportunity to screw up their setups. With all of the known bugs in both the original CM15A, and AHP, I think a fair number of people would buy a new one, if they knew that some of the bugs were fixed (like the clock drift, the lockups, RF reception, etc).

I am not in sales or marketing, and it is not my place to convince anybody to buy anything. I am positive that those folks will inform the everybody when they feel that the time is right. When I posted many months ago that the CM15A will return, I said that I would provide an update when I knew more. That is what I did.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on September 07, 2012, 12:01:17 PM
I am positive that those folks will inform the everybody when they feel that the time is right.
No offense, but I am nowhere near as positive about it as you are. I have a feeling there are others here who share my sentiment.
To my knowledge, they haven't shared any hardware changes with us in the past, even when they knew it would have a HUGE impact on the way the system works:

I really don't believe they plan to tell us what they changed. We will have to ask. Even then, we only stand a chance of getting answers if there is someone "on the inside" who can get us those answers. You're the closest thing we've got to that "inside person." ;)
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Walt2 on September 07, 2012, 03:34:37 PM
Well, that's going to make it hard to convince people to buy the new unit, if you can't even tell them what (if anything) is different.

I would venture a guess that X10 is hoping to sell these to new X10 users, who might also buy a bunch of modules too, and not so much as a replacement CM15A to those of us who already own one. 

Well, maybe a few to those who bought a CM15K.   rofl

Given up to last week, I thought there would never be any more CM15A's, I don't care if the new production is just the same including all the warts and quirks.   If my CM15A ever dies, at least I can buy a replacement outside of eBay.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on September 07, 2012, 07:18:57 PM
Noam,
Update on the TM751 again.  ::)
Some of the independent X10 dealers now have a TM751 with the relay in it again and it actually has a NEW suffix. TM751C
Some have both with and without relay models. Relay is more costly.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Tuicemen on September 08, 2012, 09:27:25 AM
The worst part of this is X10 will expect the forum members to help answer questions on something no one here owns. B:(
Even if it is exactly the same we'll never know until posts start to pop up about issues or someone posts a review B:(
Some of the independent X10 dealers now have a TM751 with the relay in it again and it actually has a NEW suffix. TM751C
More confusion ??? ::) :'
Rename the module with the old functions instead of the other way around. :'
Who thinks this stuff up?
There must be someone at x10 in charge of confusing the public  rofl
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: ITguy on September 08, 2012, 06:00:23 PM
Quote
I am not in sales or marketing, and it is not my place to convince anybody to buy anything. I am positive that those folks will inform the everybody when they feel that the time is right. When I posted many months ago that the CM15A will return, I said that I would provide an update when I knew more. That is what I did.

X10RepairDepot,

PLEASE show this whole series of posts to someone who IS in sales and/or marketing!  If they're not monitoring the forums, they should be!  Having you show up as a regular poster was a great thing, but the complete lack of feedback, and apparent lack of concern, from the people who are evidently making the product decisions, is driving away many of us "x10  old-timers"! 

ITguy
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on September 08, 2012, 06:33:41 PM
The people making decisions are well aware of the foibles of the CM15A and AHP..... don't kid yourself. It is what it is (or what it will be). 
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on September 08, 2012, 10:17:30 PM
...TM751C ... Relay is more costly.

That must be what the "C" stands for. Costly.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Tuicemen on September 09, 2012, 08:39:12 AM
...TM751C ... Relay is more costly.

That must be what the "C" stands for. Costly.
rofl
Or "Confused?"
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: ITguy on September 09, 2012, 12:05:31 PM
The people making decisions are well aware of the foibles of the CM15A and AHP..... don't kid yourself. It is what it is (or what it will be). 
Well, I keep trying to give them the benefit of the doubt!  ;)   Once I'm totally convinced that you're right (and I'm pretty close to that point), then I'm off to the Z-Wave world!  Yet another ex-x10 customer!!  Too bad.

ITguy 
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: JeffVolp on September 09, 2012, 12:08:53 PM
[Once I'm totally convinced that you're right (and I'm pretty close to that point), then I'm off to the Z-Wave world!

I have seen posts in other forums from folks abandoning Z-wave and coming back to X10.

Jeff
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on September 09, 2012, 12:51:14 PM
[Once I'm totally convinced that you're right (and I'm pretty close to that point), then I'm off to the Z-Wave world!

I have seen posts in other forums from folks abandoning Z-wave and coming back to X10.

Jeff
I think that just proves that there is no one "perfect" automation technology. Each one has its benefits and its drawbacks.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on September 09, 2012, 01:25:10 PM
I have seen posts in other forums from folks abandoning Z-wave and coming back to X10.

What reasons do they give? When first introduced I looked at it and thought the short range and limited number of hops would present problems with many installations running out of hops before running out of real estate to cover. There was also a problem when a device failed - removing it from the routing map required a complete reconfiguration of all devices in the system. I have not explored it since then so some of these issues may have been addressed.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: JeffVolp on September 09, 2012, 01:35:24 PM
What reasons do they give?

I haven't followed the discussions because I really have no interest in Z-wave myself.  I just found it intereting that some folks were giving up on it after spending all that money to switch.

Jeff
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on September 09, 2012, 02:41:44 PM
With ADT, Verizon, Leviton, Logitech, Honeywell and others offering Z-Wave devices, I assume the early issues have been addressed. However, it looks like it requires a Ph. D. in Z-Wavery plus a healthy bank account to install/handle.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on September 09, 2012, 04:20:36 PM
The Lowe's Iris Security and Automation Systems. Combine both Z-Wave and Zigbee devices in their offering.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: localuser on September 11, 2012, 12:25:35 AM
My system consits of a combination of zwave, x10 and soon zigbee solution.    I just found that each technology had their own advantage/disadvantage.  For example I don't want my door locks and alarm system to run on x10 because it is very insecure (no pairing required or encryption)  so anyone could come by and open up my house. 

I use x10 to control some lights and my sprinkler system and pool timer and it works very well for that.   I use zwave for the door locks, alarm system, and smart switches (power monitoring).

I am just getting into zigbee because it seems t have most of the advantages of zwave but its an open system that I can build my own devices from.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on September 11, 2012, 07:07:31 AM
For example I don't want my door locks and alarm system to run on x10 because it is very insecure (no pairing required or encryption)  so anyone could come by and open up my house.

If it uses RF without rolling codes, it is still insecure no matter whether using pairing or encryption. All a burglar need do is capture and playback the codes. Only rolling codes, which change with each button press, are (relatively) secure.

Besides, I believe current X10 security consoles do use pairing.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: medic5678 on September 23, 2012, 04:44:17 AM
regarding the level of security ...  you'd have to be protecting something pretty valuable for someone to try
to beat your system, no matter if it's x10.  my goal is just to make it more work to break in my home than it's worth.  i plan to do it in a fairly low tech way with redundant systems ... some x 10, some simpler standalone devices, especially on the perimeter of my property (6 acres).  how would anyone know whether they were fully integrated or not?  if one alarm goes off, i think most theives would assume that leo is being notified.  so my initial plan is to do it all with x10...  i do have a rolling code alarm system that i'm going to try to link with my x10 via a powerflash module.  all of my systems will be battery backup protected, plus it's going to be an incredible amount of work just to shut my power off.   

the bottom line:  make it more work than it's worth to rip me off, and mr. theif will go down the road to an easier target.

i'm going to definitely pick up a cm15a when they're available :).

Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: medic5678 on September 24, 2012, 01:57:14 PM
per sales, they will be receiving the cm15a's on 10/22/12, and these units are identical to the prior manufactured units.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: medic5678 on September 24, 2012, 01:57:50 PM
priced at 99.99 :).
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on September 24, 2012, 02:57:33 PM
per sales, they will be receiving the cm15a's on 10/22/12, and these units are identical to the prior manufactured units.
Thanks for telling the forum! We were all wondering if X10 made any improvements. Now we know.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Knightrider on September 24, 2012, 05:19:58 PM
per sales, they will be receiving the cm15a's on 10/22/12, and these units are identical to the prior manufactured units.


Thanks for telling the forum! We were all wondering if X10 made any improvements. Now we know.


Plus, it looks like a doubly improved price!    ;)
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on September 24, 2012, 07:16:01 PM

Plus, it looks like a doubly improved price!    ;)

rofl I need a Depends.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on September 24, 2012, 08:07:40 PM
per sales, they will be receiving the cm15a's on 10/22/12, and these units are identical to the prior manufactured units.
"Identical" is a relative term when it comes to X10.
Just because they *say* it is identical, doesn't mean it really is. I'd be curious to hear some *real* feedback from some users when they get the new one. It would be interesting for one of the "experts" here who like to tear open the units they buy, to see what's inside.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: medic5678 on September 25, 2012, 02:41:33 AM
one thing i'm not at all worried about is having the controller work without a computer.  wouldn't dream of it, though i see how it might appeal to some, depending on their setup and what they're trying to protect.  i am scouting ebay now for powerflash modules, since my concern is to get powerline input into the computer.

it's really a shame the way management has squandered x10's leadership in the home automation industry.   this could be a case study for an mba class.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on September 25, 2012, 07:08:34 AM
it's really a shame the way management has squandered x10's leadership in the home automation industry.   this could be a case study for an mba class.
$0.02
I don't think they had a lot of choice. One of they reasons X10 has lost market share is because the X10 communications protocol is being interfered with from modern day devices using noisy switching (or switch mode) power supplies. In the past five years X10 has done what they could to improve the situation (like incorporating AGC in all their AC control modules) but it just hasn't been enough. The X10 protocol is long on tooth and there isn't a good way to fix it with the common incandescent bulb being regulated out of existence, CFLs and LED bulbs (most of which contain switching supplies) being mandated in, and switching supplies now being cheaper to build than older design transformer supplies, "smart" power meters using the same powerline spectrum as X10, etc.

X10 may be the buggy whip industry of the 21st century.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on September 25, 2012, 08:33:19 AM
I agree with dave w and would add this...

X10 had a patent which kept competitors at bay for many years. They did not exploit the patent in the way it's usually done (e.g. Apple) with excessive prices but chose to offer low cost devices and go for maximum volume. Now that strategy is biting them in the ass. Their patents have expired and they now have numerous upscale competitors (many of whom were previously X10 licensees) and the low cost of their devices makes it difficult to add features. Nor have they shown much talent in their design and software departments. I think they will continue to fade towards oblivion.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: JeffVolp on September 25, 2012, 09:40:48 AM
One of they reasons X10 has lost market share is because the X10 communications protocol is being interfered with from modern day devices using noisy switching (or switch mode) power supplies. In the past five years X10 has done what they could to improve the situation (like incorporating AGC in all their AC control modules) but it just hasn't been enough.

There are ways to deal with powerline noise beyond having filters inserted all over the place.  And there is even a solution to the horrendous noise produced by that Echelon smart electric meter.

I started work on a noise eliminator that would have totally eliminated noise at the distribution panel, and boosted X10 signals.  I stopped when it became obvious it would be too expensive for me to produce, but a company with manufacturing in China could produce it for an acceptable price.

X10 still has life left in it, but it takes some new technology to deal with the new technology that is causing the problems.

Jeff
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Knightrider on September 25, 2012, 10:06:41 AM
...  i am scouting ebay now for powerflash modules, since my concern is to get powerline input into the computer.
...

Far be it from me to question a medic, but you do know that the powerflash puts the signal on the powerline, and you'd still need a cm15a to receive the powerline signal and put that info into a computer?
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on September 25, 2012, 10:47:24 AM
I started work on a noise eliminator that would have totally eliminated noise at the distribution panel, and boosted X10 signals.  I stopped when it became obvious it would be too expensive for me to produce, but a company with manufacturing in China could produce it for an acceptable price.

I can introduce you to someone who might be interested in helping you get your design built in China. I doubt they would want to market it themselves due to the need for UL (or ETL) testing but I could be wrong on that point.

It would be an advantage if your device were to use SMD components wherever possible.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: localuser on September 25, 2012, 11:48:03 AM
...I do not know what, if any, changes or improvements have been made to the unit.
3. Will there be ab update to AHP released in conjunction with the re-release of the CM15A? We haven't had an update since October of 2011.
There are a lot of bugs that are still in the software (check out the link to the Bug List here on the forums - in my signature), and it would be wonderful if you have a developer who can try and squash some of them (without introducing others, of course).

I gave up on the AHP software on the last release anyhow.  That release seemed to cause more bugs than it fixed (imho).  It seems like none of the wireless security modules were being detected.  I keep a backup copy of the x10 program files and common files folder around and snagged the activation xml with wireshark so if I need to reinstall it I can at any point, but have not needed to.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Dan Lawrence on September 25, 2012, 12:09:15 PM
...I do not know what, if any, changes or improvements have been made to the unit.
3. Will there be ab update to AHP released in conjunction with the re-release of the CM15A? We haven't had an update since October of 2011.
There are a lot of bugs that are still in the software (check out the link to the Bug List here on the forums - in my signature), and it would be wonderful if you have a developer who can try and squash some of them (without introducing others, of course).

I gave up on the AHP software on the last release anyhow.  That release seemed to cause more bugs than it fixed (imho).  It seems like none of the wireless security modules were being detected.  I keep a backup copy of the x10 program files and common files folder around and snagged the activation xml with wireshark so if I need to reinstall it I can at any point, but have not needed to.

Every version of AHP after 3.310 was buggy.  I tried every one, all had bugs.   3.310 was the last good version of AHP, any future versions (if any) should be based on 3.310.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on September 25, 2012, 12:38:41 PM
Every version of AHP after 3.310 was buggy.  I tried every one, all had bugs.   3.310 was the last good version of AHP, any future versions (if any) should be based on 3.310.
Dan -
You really should qualify that statement. Perhaps every version of AHP after 3.310 was buggy for you. However, there are plenty of people, myself included, who have found the latest version (3.318 as of this posting) to be perfectly fine for them. Yes, there are some bugs, but none of them seem to be show-stoppers for me.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: JeffVolp on September 25, 2012, 01:36:27 PM
I can introduce you to someone who might be interested in helping you get your design built in China. I doubt they would want to market it themselves due to the need for UL (or ETL) testing but I could be wrong on that point.

Thanks for the offer Dave, but I really don't want to pursue it any further myself.  I would be willing to compete the electrical design should someone with the production and marketing capability choose to offer it as a product.  This is the design we discussed back when the Echelon smart meter problem first surfaced.  Those special low-frequency clamp-on ferrite inductors and shunt filter solve the problem without needing an active noise eliminator.

Jeff
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on September 26, 2012, 09:08:16 AM
Thanks for the offer Dave, but I really don't want to pursue it any further myself.  I would be willing to compete the electrical design should someone with the production and marketing capability choose to offer it as a product.

I doubt they will be interested then. The Echelon issue appears to be limited to SW Ohio (I have no problems and am only 5 miles away and have a Duke/Echelon smartmeter) and to affect only a subset of X10 switches so I doubt there is a big enough market.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: JeffVolp on September 26, 2012, 12:26:05 PM
I doubt there is a big enough market.

I agree Dave, which is why I abandoned the effort.

It would have been a high-power repeater like the XTB-IIR, but also with the ability to actively null all noise at its connection point.  That would have significantly reduced overall noise levels, and totally blocked noise coming in on one circuit from being distributed onto any other circuits.  But it would have been big and expensive.

Jeff
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: DBM999 on October 17, 2012, 08:32:29 PM
All,

I just received word that all of the issues that were holding up the re-release of the CM15A (including cost) have been resolved. We should have stock by early October. The item is a CM15A, so it will not be a completely new unit. I do not know what, if any, changes or improvements have been made to the unit.


Anything new on this?

As I transition from an old PC with Windows XP and a serial port to a new PC with Windows 7 (64-bit), I would love to be able to upgrade to a USB-based CM15A.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: medic5678 on October 18, 2012, 11:17:26 PM
well, we are just a couple of days away from the arrival of the new cm15a's.   :)%

call me skeptical, but i'll believe it when i see it. 
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: X10 Repair Depot on October 19, 2012, 08:41:50 AM
They are going to be a bit later than expected, but they are currently being produced.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: medic5678 on October 19, 2012, 10:21:17 AM
how much is "a bit"?  six weeks, six months, six years, six times forever?
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 19, 2012, 08:02:15 PM
Possibly middle November or in December.  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: beelocks on October 20, 2012, 12:32:44 PM
Possibly middle November or in December.  Stay tuned.

Is this a misleading guess or some kind of verified information?
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on October 20, 2012, 01:44:22 PM
We have not seen anything indicating a new date.
My thoughts wishfull thinking.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 20, 2012, 07:47:19 PM
It's a guess.    I'm sure X10 Repair Depot will let us know when the CM15A will be available .
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on October 20, 2012, 08:19:41 PM
Possibly middle November or in December.  Stay tuned.

Is this a misleading guess or some kind of verified information?

Notice Dan didn't indicate November or December of a specific year. ;)
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: JeffVolp on October 20, 2012, 09:16:48 PM
Notice Dan didn't indicate November or December of a specific year. ;)

Delays happen.  I missed my target date for the XTBM-Pro by a full year.

Jeff
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on October 21, 2012, 06:35:39 AM
Having seen long lead times on parts I am looking for.
I also am not surprised if there where delays.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: X10 Repair Depot on October 22, 2012, 11:45:42 AM
The CM15A is in production and should be here soon. I cannot give an exact date, but the delay is minimal they are expected to arrive within 2-3 weeks.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on October 22, 2012, 12:29:19 PM
The CM15A is in production and should be here soon. I cannot give an exact date, but the delay is minimal they are expected to arrive within 2-3 weeks.
Will you be able to let us know (here on the forums) when they are actually available for purchase?
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: X10 Repair Depot on October 22, 2012, 01:40:09 PM
The CM15A is in production and should be here soon. I cannot give an exact date, but the delay is minimal they are expected to arrive within 2-3 weeks.
Will you be able to let us know (here on the forums) when they are actually available for purchase?

Yes.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: medic5678 on October 24, 2012, 09:20:22 AM
for better or worse, i bought a used cm15a on ebay.  i hope it works :).
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on October 24, 2012, 11:31:52 AM
Hope it does work out for you.
I believe you do have AHP and the CM19A.
AHP should find the CM15A with no problems. Though the first time you connect it. You may get a new hardware found message and then a loading correct drivers message.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: medic5678 on October 27, 2012, 10:55:33 AM
so far, it looks good.  i plugged it in to the usb and windows recognizes it.  now to replace the antenna and get my powerline issues resolved, so i can give this thing a real go :).

update:  the cma15 doesn't seem to issue powerline commands in response to a macro.  still a bit more tinkering to do, but i think i'm just going to buy a new one when they do come out.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: frmichaud on November 11, 2012, 03:43:36 PM
Mid september I was told by X10 that anew batch of CM15A will arrive first week of october so I placed an order, they IMMEDIATLY cahrged my credit card
Mid october having received nothing I contacted again X10 they said there is some delay in delivery
We are in November I still have received nothing , I contacted X10 again and they said the CM15A was shipped on October 19 but I still received nothing ,
we are november 11, I think this new delivery of CM15A is a Joke B:(
Francois
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on November 11, 2012, 04:04:10 PM
If it shipped from X10 to you.
They should be able to give you a tracking number and most times you would also have gotten a email on it shipping.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: frmichaud on November 12, 2012, 10:09:05 AM
X10 is unable to tell how it was shipped UPS, USPS, FedEx , impossible to have a tracking number , it is why I have serius doubt about a CM15A shipping on October 19, I asked Mastercard to cancel the charged X10 did on september 23 before it is too late B:(
Francois
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: DBM999 on November 26, 2012, 05:08:25 PM
The CM15A is in production and should be here soon. I cannot give an exact date, but the delay is minimal they are expected to arrive within 2-3 weeks.

Anything new on this?

I'm definitely not complaining and will remain patient.  I am simply looking forward to the CM15A's availability!!!

Dave
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: pseeker on November 26, 2012, 05:20:01 PM
A shared link from the X10 facebook page it's officially back.... See http://www.x10.com/promotions/cm15a_complete_new_2012.html?EM (http://www.x10.com/promotions/cm15a_complete_new_2012.html?EM)
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on November 26, 2012, 06:27:56 PM
Sales page "Extremely Limited Run Available".  ::)
That doesn't sound very good at all.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on November 26, 2012, 07:53:31 PM
X10 is unable to tell how it was shipped UPS, USPS, FedEx , impossible to have a tracking number , it is why I have serius doubt about a CM15A shipping on October 19, I asked Mastercard to cancel the charged X10 did on september 23 before it is too late B:(
sounds like someone at X10 has a Pinocchio nose.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: X10 Repair Depot on November 27, 2012, 01:11:28 PM
I have received confirmation that the CM15A will be arriving within a few days.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Dan Lawrence on November 27, 2012, 05:44:46 PM
Good!  How many will be available?
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: cjhallx on November 28, 2012, 06:47:58 PM
I have received confirmation that the CM15A will be arriving within a few days.

The only catch is you have to buy one original 7" x-10 tablet with each CM15A you order. rofl
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on November 28, 2012, 08:45:37 PM

The only catch is you have to buy one original 7" x-10 tablet with each CM15A you order. rofl

 rofl  "I don't care who you are, now that's funny!"   rofl
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on November 29, 2012, 04:35:45 PM
Sales Page says "Back By Popular Demand".
Maybe it is now back in stock. Yesterday it was not on the sales page.

Not clear on how limited the production run is.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: pseeker on November 30, 2012, 02:37:31 PM
I would guess "limited" refers to the initial production run (beta test to see what comes out of the sausage machine???)rather than a one shot deal since it cost money to setup a new production line... You have to train the production staff with parts procurement, design, assembly, test, quality control and then create test fixtures, debug stations etc.

Sales Page says "Back By Popular Demand".
Maybe it is now back in stock. Yesterday it was not on the sales page.

Not clear on how limited the production run is.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: pomonabill221 on December 01, 2012, 02:39:07 AM
Took a quick look at X10 sales and I couldn't find the cm15A, just the cm15K (kit) which I don't want!
Does anyone have a link to the cm15A?

EDIT:  never mind I found it!
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on December 01, 2012, 06:02:36 AM
They may have had to do a redesign.
The Cypress CY7C63723-PC/PXC main controller chip they used. Is almost impossible to find these days.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: farrout on December 01, 2012, 09:05:43 AM
Took a quick look at X10 sales and I couldn't find the cm15A, just the cm15K (kit) which I don't want!
Does anyone have a link to the cm15A?

EDIT:  never mind I found it!
Where? 
I've had X10 for over 15 years in the house, but none of my controllers work anymore.  I bought the system before I found out the PC had to be on all the time.
I'll buy the darn thing.  Just make it.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: pomonabill221 on December 01, 2012, 02:02:05 PM
Here is the link:
http://www.x10.com/promotions/cm15a_complete_new_2012.html?EM

BEFORE buying, I would actually see if they have them in stock FIRST though!!!  That is if they will tell you the truth!
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on December 02, 2012, 02:24:04 PM
Well, I've ordered one to see whether there have been any hardware changes - will let everyone know what transpires.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: pomonabill221 on December 02, 2012, 03:49:59 PM
Well, I've ordered one to see whether there have been any hardware changes - will let everyone know what transpires.
Oh good!!!  Let us know!  Hopefully there are improvements!  Like decoupling caps and reliable firmware!  HA!
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on December 02, 2012, 04:19:19 PM
Well, I've ordered one to see whether there have been any hardware changes - will let everyone know what transpires.
Oh good!!!  Let us know!  Hopefully there are improvements!  Like decoupling caps and reliable firmware!  HA!
And maybe a better routing of the antenna wire, to improve reception.

I suspect there aren't enough changes to warrant an update to AHP - since I didn't see an update to AHP out there.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on December 02, 2012, 04:29:23 PM
Will be waiting for your findings on the CM15A.
Hope there are improvements, but my gut says all they did was have a new factory use the existing design.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on December 02, 2012, 04:32:24 PM
Oh good!!!  Let us know!  Hopefully there are improvements!  Like decoupling caps and reliable firmware! 
rofl
What a delightful sense of humor!
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on December 02, 2012, 05:28:46 PM
Oh good!!!  Let us know!  Hopefully there are improvements!  Like decoupling caps and reliable firmware!  HA!

I'm not interested in the firmware - only the hardware.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: pomonabill221 on December 02, 2012, 06:17:09 PM
Oh good!!!  Let us know!  Hopefully there are improvements!  Like decoupling caps and reliable firmware! 
rofl
What a delightful sense of humor!
I know, I know.... pipe dream!
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on December 03, 2012, 05:03:31 PM
X10 says it has shipped. FedEx has received notice. I opted for free shipping so I expect it will take several days minimum.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on December 03, 2012, 05:14:53 PM
X10 says it has shipped. FedEx has received notice. I opted for free shipping so I expect it will take several days minimum.
We expect a full report soon.  ;D
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on December 04, 2012, 08:47:05 AM
FedEx says...
Quote
12/04/2012  -  Tuesday
8:29 am                 Arrived at FedEx location          FEDEX SMARTPOST ALLENTOWN, PA
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on December 04, 2012, 09:30:27 AM
FedEx says...
....well, maybe not that full... :)%   Thanks for making me laugh!
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Dan Lawrence on December 04, 2012, 10:10:49 AM
This is beginning to look like a soap opera.   The CM15A is an interface for AHP.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on December 04, 2012, 10:44:33 AM
This is beginning to look like a soap opera.   The CM15A is an interface for AHP.
Huh?
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: cjhallx on December 04, 2012, 08:25:01 PM

The only catch is you have to buy one original 7" x-10 tablet with each CM15A you order. rofl

 rofl  "I don't care who you are, now that's funny!"   rofl
Who am I?
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on December 06, 2012, 10:39:44 AM
Now FedEx says...
Quote
-12/06/2012  -  Thursday 4:51 am   Arrived at FedEx location     FEDEX SMARTPOST GROVE CITY, OH

So, it's less than 100 miles away - should be here by tomorrow or Saturday (although I've had the USPS fumble such handoffs before, resulting in an all expenses paid tour of the midwest for my package).

Here's hoping it's a real CM15A and not a CM19A + TM751 (in which case X10 will rue using SmartPost).

If it's a real CM15A I hope they have gone lead-free. That will let me inspect it using my X-Ray vision thus avoiding opening the enclosure and voiding the warranty.  :'
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on December 06, 2012, 05:50:52 PM
... That will let me inspect it using my X-Ray vision thus avoiding opening the enclosure and voiding the warranty.  :'
Very kool. But be aware nanny gov has outlawed the use of arsenic, gallium, etc as silicon doping agents, so many fab plants are now using kryptonite as a substitute.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on December 06, 2012, 06:02:00 PM
Well the warranty is only ninety days now.
So if you wait ninety days. You are clear to do as you like.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Dan Lawrence on December 06, 2012, 06:03:46 PM
If it's a real CM15A I hope they have gone lead-free. That will let me inspect it using my X-Ray vision thus avoiding opening the enclosure and voiding the warranty.  :'
Very kool. But be aware nanny gov has outlawed the use of arsenic, gallium, etc as silicon doping agents, so many fab plants are now using kryptonite as a substitute.

Superman better watch out!!!!!!
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on December 08, 2012, 01:32:44 PM
It really is a CM15A.    Datecode: 12K48    FCC ID: B4SCM15A

Internally, it appears identical to two others that I got soon after it was introduced.

I have designed a daughterboard that replaces the MCU, allows access to PLC IN/OUT, RF IN/OUT, EEPROM, etc. and adds a real RTC. It will have both USB and RS232 interfaces as well as several other enhancements.

It will not be compatible with X10 software but I'll provide open source Windows/Linux/OSX software.

It uses an FTDI chip that isn't shipping yet. I'll test as soon as they are available but a full release will have to wait until the  
roZettaTM/ZarduinoTM hardware/firmware/software is stable which should be within 90-120 days.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on December 08, 2012, 02:02:20 PM
Thanks for the information.
Not even some decoupling caps soldered on the solder side of the PCB.  B:(
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: pomonabill221 on December 08, 2012, 03:15:52 PM
Is the soldering job quality about the same as the old one? (lousy, that is!)...  Am guessing it is, and WHAT NO decoupling AGAIN!?!?!?!
Looks like they didn't learn anything (no surprise here!)
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on December 08, 2012, 03:59:39 PM
No decoupling capacitors (easy to add - see link below, scroll to bottom) but the quality of the PCB and the wave soldering look better than my older ones.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on December 08, 2012, 06:17:47 PM
No decoupling capacitors (easy to add - see link below, scroll to bottom) but the quality of the PCB and the wave soldering look better than my older ones.
  • http://davehouston.org/ImproveCM15A.htm
IMHO X10 was relying on build quality (parts down, flush with PC board, etc.) to eliminate the requirement for four 5 cent bypass cap.

Now they have a new manufacturer to re-train. Maybe the new manufacturer has some quality dual flow wave solder machines for the 1960's, non eyeleted, hand inserted, PC board. But the good news is, it is about the same price as the same 2005 unit.  Ya can't beat that!  :D
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on December 09, 2012, 05:08:31 AM
...it is about the same price as the same 2005 unit.
The introductory price of $70 for a CM15A plus LM465 is not bad for this day and age.

I think they could have done better with a totally new design but suspect their designers have been with them since the X10 beginning in the '70s and are uncomfortable with those newfangled SMD thingys.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: pseeker on December 10, 2012, 02:54:22 PM
Maybe they no longer have designers on staff but the original BOM, gerber files, schematics, pick and place instructions and FCC approval for their existing designs.
I think they could have done better with a totally new design but suspect their designers have been with them since the X10 beginning in the '70s and are uncomfortable with those newfangled SMD thingys.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: the other steve on December 18, 2012, 05:29:56 PM
I have been using my old CM15a for so long that I just assumed that all the talk here on the board was about RF performance as bad as mine.

My new CM15a has RF range at least twice as great as the old one.  Not good, mind you, but better.

Who knows?  I'm so excited about it that I may even try software newer than 3.228.  (recommendations are welcome.)

AHP lives, at least at my house!  I have been using X10 for decades so far...

Steve
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on December 18, 2012, 06:04:42 PM
My new CM15a has RF range at least twice as great as the old one.  Not good, mind you, but better.

Since there was no hardware change, it's likely that your new CM15a center frequency is a better match for your transmitters. IOW, it's a happy accident and others may have different experiences.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on December 18, 2012, 06:16:34 PM
As I recall, the first CM15A production units had most of the receive antenna wire rolled up in a ball with only the very end of the wire tucked in the external "soda straw". Later X10 must have convinced the factory to do a better job of spreading the internal portion of the antenna wire around the interior of the case a little better, so by year two of production there was a range improvement.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: the other steve on December 18, 2012, 06:30:16 PM
That is likely the case.  I upgraded from the CM11 to the CM15 as soon as it came out.

Steve
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on December 18, 2012, 06:58:38 PM
I have two of them with the receiving antenna. Tied into what looks like a random ball of knots. One of them now has an external F connector for a antenna on it.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dhouston on December 18, 2012, 07:30:40 PM
As I recall, the first CM15A production units had most of the receive antenna wire rolled up in a ball with only the very end of the wire tucked in the external "soda straw".

I have two very early models and that was not the case with either. They had minimal wire between the antenna and receiver. The newest one, that I just received, may even have slightly more wire between antenna and receiver than the early ones. And, the transmitter antenna looks just like the two early models. Perhaps, there was always some variation in how they were assembled.  

In any event, the distributor I'm working with is currently testing my antenna designs for the CM15A, TM751 and RR501. Barring any surprises, they should be available Q1 2013 (as soon as manufacturing can be arranged) and everyone can have more than adequate range.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: dave w on December 18, 2012, 08:03:21 PM
Tied into what looks like a random ball of knots.

Yes those are "inductance nodes" which acts as concentrators for the already powerful RF signals from the X10 remotes.  rofl
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on December 20, 2012, 10:27:12 AM
... My new CM15a has RF range at least twice as great as the old one.  Not good, mind you, but better...
You might want to try the "18.5-inch wire" mod. It seems to improve reception for a lot of people.
It doesn't involve modifying the CM15A itself, so it doesn't affect your warrantly. You simply secure an 18.5-inch straight wire alongside the CM15A's antenna (using tape, plastic "zip ties," etc). You are not making an electrical connection between the new wire and the antenna, it is simply acting as a "reflector," to help draw in the RF signals, and direct them to the existing antenna.

Quote
... Who knows?  I'm so excited about it that I may even try software newer than 3.228.  (recommendations are welcome.) ...
Be careful with any versions newer than 3.310. That's when X10 changed the "SoftStart" behavior. If you have any dimming modules that are not "SoftStart," you'll need to edit them in AHP to select the correct module type from the "Old Lamps - no SoftStart" category.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on December 21, 2012, 09:03:30 AM
Web sales page indicates CM15A sold out and taking preorders for the next lot when they are received.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Dan Lawrence on December 21, 2012, 02:19:31 PM
Sounds like too many users got orders in too fast.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: the other steve on January 02, 2013, 07:16:01 PM
So I am being careful - as in not updating my old version at all - but I installed Smart Macros (which I didn't have before) from the download link supplied with my new CM15A, and it installed AHP 3.318 all by itself.

I changed the modules to non-soft start versions and it all seems to be working OK, but am I in for other surprises?

(If I restore my computer to get back to the old version of AHP, I assume that I need to restore the registry as well as the AHP directory.  Correct?)

Thanks,

Steve

Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Noam on January 02, 2013, 08:30:33 PM
When AHP is updated, the plugin installs are updated, too (to make sure everything is compatible).
Downloading a new plugin installer will update the core AHP to that same version.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Tinman55 on January 03, 2013, 02:35:42 PM
Just got this email today showing they have them:

http://www.thehomeautomationstore.com/sw31a-cm15a.html
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: m82a1pa on January 03, 2013, 02:58:44 PM
Wish they sold just the CM15A - I have the other stuff.  Just like to get one for a backup.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: Brian H on January 03, 2013, 03:44:15 PM
Probably be the same price with or without the extras.
Saying you get all this extra free stuff makes it look better.
Title: Re: CM15A will be back soon!
Post by: glacier991 on January 27, 2013, 09:06:16 PM
I ordered in December, X-10 gave a ship date of 1-15. Now,mind you,  I am not in immediate need, but for your information I still have receoved nothing... not even a ship notification. Having said that, it will probably arrive tomorrow.

Chris