X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Tom G. on November 02, 2012, 02:45:10 PM
-
So my CM15A and Activehome have been working well for years. No real problems until this last week. Suddenly, lamps won't dim. They come on and stay on at full brightness. When this happened in the past, I could reset the computer and the CM15A and all worked well afterwards. Not this time. Resetting the CM15A now seems to do some dimming. But it is not properly reflected in Activehome on the % sliders. For instance, if I drag a lamp slider to 45% the lamp does seem to dim to that amount. Activehome shows the slider starting at 45% where I put it, then it briefly jumps up to 100% while the lamp is actually dimming. Then the slider drops to 0% even though the lamp seems to be dimmed to 45.
Anyone have any idea what is going on? I haven't replaced or added anything. No new electrical items in the house. I thinks it's the Activehome software, not the CM15A because I have two of them and they both do this. Could it be related to the end of Daylight Savings? I seem to have trouble every year around this time since the dates of DST changed.
Tom G.
-
1. Are all your modules "old style" or Soft-Start?
2. It's not the end of Daylight Savings Time until this Sunday morning at 2:00 AM.
3. What version of AHP are you using?
-
Hi Dan
1. I'm not really sure. Most modules are old ones. In any case, they are the same modules that all worked fine all year - until last week.
2. The problems began on the 3rd weekend of October. That was the original end date of DST for many years.
3. Not certain, but I think it is 3.236 I tried a more recent version but it caused many problems for me. So much so that my only option was to completely uninstall and remove that newer version, restore the computer to an earleir date, then reload the version I am using. This version has worked without trouble for at least two years or more. That is, until the end of October.
Tom G.
-
3.236 is OLD!!! I use 3.310 with no problems whatsoever. Do you live in the USA? DST dates have changed here. As an example, Sunday (November 4) at 2:00 AM we go back on Standard Time.
3:310 can handle both old style modules and Soft-Start modules with no problems.
-
1. If the modules don't ramp On and Off they are not soft start.
3.236 may not have the correct DST dates in it. Not sure.
I can say even 3.318 will get it incorrect. The smallest number of date chunks is 16 days {1% Memory Use}.
Mine shows 10/31 as the dusk time goes from 17:44 to 16:28 ???
-
Can I download a newer version of Activehome from somewhere and do I need to get new activation codes?
What is the exact process to check the modules soft soft start? Would this matter if I update the software to 3.310?
I looked at the activity log this morning and see something that looks strange to me. When I adjust a dimming slider in Activehome to say 40%, it briefly jumps to 100%, then it drops all the way down to say 18%. But the lamp appears to actually be dimmed to 40%. The activity log shows both a transmit and receive for two slightly different percentages, Like this:
976 11/3/2012 6:18:09
AM
Transmit A7 (Fountain)
977 11/3/2012 6:18:10
AM
Transmit A On (Fountain)
978
11/3/2012 6:18:20
AM Transmit A Dim 40% (Fountain)
979
11/3/2012 6:18:22
AM Receive A Dim 42% (Fountain)
980
11/3/2012 6:18:33
AM Transmit A15 (Laundry Room)
981
11/3/2012 6:18:34
AM Transmit A Off (Laundry Room)
982
11/3/2012 6:18:39
AM Transmit A15 (Laundry Room)
983
11/3/2012 6:18:39
AM Transmit A On (Laundry Room)
984
11/3/2012 6:18:42
AM
Transmit A Dim 53% (Laundry Room)
985 11/3/2012 6:18:44
AM
Receive A Dim 58% (Laundry Room)
I never notive there would be both a transmit Dim and receive dim.
Tom G.
-
If you turn the lamp or wall switch On. If it goes instantly On. It is the older before soft start. If it slowly {2 seconds roughly} ramps On. It is a soft start version.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/SoftStart
Here is the revision history.
http://www.x10.com/support/rev_ahp.htm
Download software page. No the updater will not need a new registration code.
http://www.x10.com/support/support_soft1.htm
Do you have an active X10 Repeater Coupler?
Where the received messages may have been from its repeating the power line signals?
-
I think I may have one wall switch that is soft start. I bought it from Smart Home a few years ago.
Thanks for the software link. I might try a newer version. I can always restore the older version, if it doesn't work out.
I have a phase coupler plugged into an unused 220 dryer outlet. I also have 3 of the Smart Home Booster Lincs plugged in in various rooms. I don't think I have any repeaters. Are those the newer Smart Home modules?
-
You may have received back one of the BoosterLincs resent message.
If the wall switch from Smarthome was a SwitchLinc. It may have soft start but not the same as an X10 soft start wall switch that used Extended Messaging to set the dim levels. Smarthome chose to use the older X10 %dim protocol that AHP didn't use.
-
Ok, I think I may have solved it. I believe it was one of the Booster Lincs possibly gone bad. I unplugged all of them and Activehome behaved normally. I added back one Booster Linc at a time until I found one that caused those double transmit/receive messages. I left that one unplugged for now and I will see how the system works tonight.
I appreciate everyone's advice. And I still would like to know what other unit might be a good replacement for the CM15A. They won't last forever.
Tom G.
-
Let us know if the BoosterLinc was part of the problem.
I know early models actually stepped on their own Insteon power line signals.
CM15A is being made again. The release date was delayed according to the message thread but not an excessive delay.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=27440.0
-
Wish I saw your post a bit earlier. I just bought a "new" CM15A on EBay for $98. I sure hope it works like new.
I will also be very interested to see what the new X10 units are like. Maybe identical to what we have now?
-
I believe in the thread. It was indicated it was basically the same as what was being sold originally.
-
Well, that's okay. I was fine with the CM15A as it was.
Of course, it would have been nice to have had some improvements of some sort.
But, it is easy to use and it works (usually).
;)
Tom G.
-
X10 will probably not say anything on any changes that where done.
They didn't even tell us when the Soft Start features where added to the LM465s. We just got messages here. On why is my module slowly going On and Off.
It will take someone with a knowledge of a CM15A. Taking one apart, observing and testing with AHP.
-
So, after spending many hours today, my CM15A and Activehome is still not dimming any lamps. I went through a lot. Loading the newest Activehome software complelety failed to work on my laptop. I had to restore back to 3.236. Bottom line, I know it is a propblem with that particular laptop, or perhapd the USB, or the electrical outlet it is plugged in to. When I run it from a different computer in another room, it works fine. Propblem is, I can't leave it in that room. I need to have it running downstairs on the laptop where it has always run for years without problems. I know there were about 20 Windows updates, Java updates and iTunes updates in the last month or so. Could those be affecting Activehome. Does anyone have any more ideas why this laptop, or electrical outlet, would sudden;y stop allowing the dimming? Lamps do turn on but never dim.
Tom G.
-
Dim signals take a long time so are easily corrupted. Have you investigated "Boosterlink fights"??? Especially having two Boosterlinks on same phase.
-
Hi Dave... I'm not sure how I would investigate Booster Linc fights. I actually have 4 Booster Lincs in my house. And they have been in place for at least 3 or more years. Everything worked fine with the 4 Booster Lincs for years until a few weeks ago. I don't think it is the Booster Lincs, but I really don't know how to tell. I'm at a loss as to how to figure this one out.
Here's what I know. Both CM15A's work properly, dimming and all, if plugged into an outlet upstairs in the front bedroom. Neither of them worked from their usual downstairs office location (where one has been in place and functioning fine for years). It is not software related, nor is it the CM15A's themselves. It is somehow a problem with the downstairs outlets that is preventing the dims. They still allow the units to turn on at the correct times, just nothing will dim. It seems like 3 or 4 other outlets I tried downstairs have this problem. Only the upstairs front bedroom outlet allows the CM15A to function properly. Unfortunately, it is too far away from some downstairs rooms for the x10 signal to reach.
I'm stumped and tired of spending so much time testing it. Nothing changed here in the last few months. Although I guess something changed that I am not aware of.
Tom G.
-
It sounds like *something* on that downstairs circuit could be creating noise and corrupting the dim commands.
Have you changed any electronics lately (new cell phone charger, new monitor, TV, etc)?
Do you have any CFL bulbs on that circuit, or on other circuits on that same phase?
If so, have you changed one recently, and/or could it be that one of the bulbs is getting old, and starting to fail (they can emit a lot of noise on the power lines when that happens)?
-
Hi Dave... I'm not sure how I would investigate Booster Linc fights. I actually have 4 Booster Lincs in my house.
I'm stumped and tired of spending so much time testing it. Nothing changed here in the last few months. Although I guess something changed that I am not aware of.
Tom G.
The fact that everything once worked and no longer works in the same outlets probably isn't a BoosterLinc problem but four BoosterLincs and the fact that ONs and OFFs work but DIMs do not screams BoosterLinc problems to me. If me, I would try unplugging all BoosterLincs but one on the same circuit as the CM15A and see what happens...or even no BoosterLincs and try.
If you have a lot of X10, maybe dump the BoogerLincs and coupler and upgrade to a XTBIIR repeater(?).
-
Nothing has changed electrically for more than a year. I do have a couple of CFL downstairs. Maybe they are getting old and causing problems?
I did remove all the Boster Lincs and it made no difference. Other than the fact that certain lights would not turn on at all. That's how I ended up with the Booster Lincs. I think the coupler and the repeater would require an electrician and that's more that I want get involved with right now.
I was thinking maybe an Insteon controller that can also do X10 might be the easiest solution. I have to give up on Activehome but I need to somehow get it working again.
-
One point with an Insteon controller.
Smartlabs chose to use the older %Dim X10 protocol and not the Extended X10 messaging used by the later soft start modules.
So dimming could be a problem. In some instances.
-
If you are having trouble getting the signals through, or there is a lot of noise, the Insteon controller won't be much help.
I suggest trying to find the reason the lights don't dim first, before spending more money on a new controller.
-
Some troubleshooting and general automation links.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
http://www.act-remote.com/PCC/uncle.htm
http://www.davehouston.net/
-
Nothing has changed electrically for more than a year. I do have a couple of CFL downstairs. Maybe they are getting old and causing problems?
$0.02
Noise that stops a DIM command but does not affect the ON or OFF commands will be one for the books. But the books are being revised all the time. If, with all BoosterLincs unplugged, the CM15A still will not dim a light in the same outlet but will turn it on and off.....
-
Nothing has changed electrically for more than a year. I do have a couple of CFL downstairs. Maybe they are getting old and causing problems?
$0.02
Noise that stops a DIM command but does not affect the ON or OFF commands will be one for the books. But the books are being revised all the time. If, with all BoosterLincs unplugged, the CM15A still will not dim a light in the same outlet but will turn it on and off.....
Isn't it possible for noise to affect some modules more than others (depending on the exact "profile" of the noise, as compared to the "profile" of the signal itself)?
We've seen cases of random "noise" turning on some modules and not others (if the noise looks close enough to a valid signal), so why not have noise that can interfere with dimming?
-
We've seen cases of random "noise" turning on some modules and not others (if the noise looks close enough to a valid signal), so why not have noise that can interfere with dimming?
No! IMO "if the noise looks close enough to a valid signal" doesn't cut it.
The random events seem to be at least loosely related to a long known issue that X-10 noted in a FAQ.
- http://www.x10.com/support/x10trou.htm#on
where spikes on the powerline affect some devices (mostly X10 switches). During the recent spate of random events linked to Echelon smart meters, a couple of those so afflicted connected Smarthome made modules set to the same address and they were unaffected while the X10 made switches were.
In at least one case it was traced to floating pins on the microcontroller used by X10.
- https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!msg/comp.home.automation/HJOVTh8Y_Ps/6vX-Nood1GIJ
There's a 'scope screenshot of such spikes at...
- http://davehouston.org/noise.htm
I suspect a similar mechanism with the high amplitude Echelon signals acting like spikes.
-
Isn't it possible for noise to affect some modules more than others (depending on the exact "profile" of the noise, as compared to the "profile" of the signal itself)?
We've seen cases of random "noise" turning on some modules and not others (if the noise looks close enough to a valid signal), so why not have noise that can interfere with dimming?
I understand what you are saying, I just question *noise* that has no affect on the ON or OFF commands but wipes out the DIM commands. I could see one or two modules dimming sporadically in a noisy condition/environment but the OP indicates DIM does not work anywhere in his system. I keep circling around BoosterLinc problems, but the OP is a good troubleshooter and has eliminated the BoosterLincs. I dunno ???
-
I didn't go back and re-read the whole thread, but is it possible that the modules are pre-SoftStart, but are defined as SoftStart in AHP?
The older module would respond to simple "ON" and "OFF" commands, but won't understand the Extended Dim commands.
-
I didn't go back and re-read the whole thread, but is it possible that the modules are pre-SoftStart, but are defined as SoftStart in AHP?
The older module would respond to simple "ON" and "OFF" commands, but won't understand the Extended Dim commands.
Yeah, that is very plausable, but the OP said the system has been working fine for years and *nothing has changed* which I took as no new gizmos. Even with new gizmos I can't wrap my head around "selective" noise. Not saying it isn't possible, just that I don't understand how. The Soft Start explaination makes great sense but isn't consistent with "system worked fine for years". And the OP statement that the CM15A will DIM in certain outlets. I keep thinking about FOUR BoosterLincs and signal collisions. Top tier repeaters like the XTBIIR and ACT 234 can be programmed to ignore signals from other repeaters to avoid the collision/corruption problem. I don't think the BoosterLinc is that sophiscated. But I can't explain why the no dim problem suddenly started out of the blue. I'm out of guesses. ???
-
OP said they where using AHP 3.236.
Not sure if update to 3.318 was done at some point.
-
I want to update you guys on the latest. I was digging around in my box of X10 stuff and I found a *BRAND NEW* CM15A still in its box. I think I ordered this a a spare a couple years back. I put this new CM15A in place, downloaded to it, and guess what - everything works perfect. Just like it has for years, with all the repeaters, noise filters and everything in place.
I am not X10 expert, just a very long time user. The only thing I can say is that both of my other CM15A units must have gone bad. I'm reliieved to know I don't have to switch to anyting else. I hope X10 releases the CM15A again so I can pick up another back up unit or two.
This is consistent with my experiences with the CM15A. I have had about 6 of them. They only last a couple years, and then they crap out. I appreciate everyone's advice.
Tom G.
-
Hi there!
I haven't got exactly the same problem but something close to it. I have two outside lamps that I have set to dim to 19%,higher than that blinds IP cameras. Both worked fine for a year or so but then one stopped dimming. I can manually dim it from the switch and iPhone but not with CM15A timer.
However have another interesting phenomena on the third lamp. It was connected to a two way lamp module. Worked fine for about two years and then stopped. After replugging, it worked for a day. Then replaced it with 465 and that worked for couple of days.
I don't know why, I decided to dim it to 45%. Now it's been working for a month or more. It turns on/off with a remote but to turn it on with iPhone, first It goes to 49% and stays there then have to press bright and it comes on. Slider goes to 52%. Turning off is just a touch on off.
Why it does this have no clue but it works.
May be someone has a clue to what is going on.
Have a great day you all.
-
Is the LM465 Soft Start where it ramps On and Off?
Did you redefine the old LM14A Two Way to a LM465?
What version AHP are you using?
What X10 module is controlling the outside lights?
-
Yep this is an OOOOOLD topic, but I have not seen this aspect delved into.
I too go back to BSR X10 and control programs for the "latest computers" Z80 base with home built computer interfaces.
I good guess on your "flakey controller" is the power supply filter cap has gone north.
My CM15A is the only X10 controller I have not had to replace the filter cap in and it is probably ready for it by now.
Also, a bunch of OLD modules died and needed the filter caps replaced to revive over the years. Just look at the service hours > on 24 - 7 for YEARS.
I have been learking for awhile and waited weeks for the email to confirm after I tried to register.
-
I had an RR501 get flaky. In my case the Zener Diode in the module. Got so Hot the PCB turned dark brown. The solder got dull and scaly.
I replaced it with two in series that added up to the original value. So each one was much cooler and re soldered the connections. Also changed the main filter cap while I was in there. Has been 100% for at least a few years since I did the fix.
-
@Brian H, I'm adding that to my notes and giving you a "Helpful" for that! :)%
-
The schematic for the CM15A is on the FCC Database web site.
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm
Grantee:B4S
Product Code:CM15A
In the detail tab.
X10 left four small bypass caps across the power supply filter caps and digital ICs.
Here is a modified schematic showing the added caps in Red. Some found the added caps made the CM15A much more stable.
http://www.davehouston.net/CM15A.pdf