X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: liderbug on July 03, 2014, 11:08:01 PM

Title: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: liderbug on July 03, 2014, 11:08:01 PM
I've got a CM11a on a 10 year old ARM box and it sees everything on the powerline.  I've (in progress) upgraded to a RasPi and a CM19a/TM751 and the sending is working great.  But I'd like my CM19a to 'see' everything on the PL.  Is there a 157MT?  Detect data on the PL and RF it? (-> 19a).

Thanks
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: Brian H on July 04, 2014, 06:09:04 AM
You want an X10 PL signal to X10 RF sender?
I don't believe there is such a device.
Will your RasPi work with a CM15A? It does both Sending and Receiving of X10 PL and X10 RF.
I am sure there will be others with more information. As RasPi is being used by some here.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: liderbug on July 04, 2014, 12:11:06 PM
Let me reword my problem/what I'm trying to solve.  Hydroponic greenhouse, tank of liquid/soup/mix 24" deep.  Right now I have a float, old curtain rod, 1/2" wire glued every inch, a microswitch connected to a PSC-01.  And it's working.  As the pump runs I get F8 On, F8 Off......  I want to totally switch to my RasPi/CM19a.  I went looking for X10 ... sends a wireless sig.  So question: DS10a? with a magnet every inch? 2in" 4in".  I assume a 10a sends one closed or one open and not open,open,open........  Or a PAT01?

Thanks

Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: Brian H on July 04, 2014, 12:53:18 PM
The DS10A or the new DS12A send X10 Security messages. The CM19A can process them.
They are not the standard F8 On and Off type messages. So you may have to do some added decoding with your RasPie.
About every sixty minutes. It also sends out a Heartbeat message. So a security console knows if it is still working. It is its present state if memory serves me.

There is an example in this X10 users thread on a DS10A and a water sensor. The X10 message format would be what would interest you as the mods for water sensing would not be required with magnetic switches.

http://www.gardnerswebsite.com/ds10a/index.html

If all the magnetic switches are Normally Open and wired in parallel. As the magnet passed each one. It would close and send a closed message back.

The DS12A replacement for the DS10A has a terminal block in it for a second zone externally wired and it has an internal magnetic switch not on the end of a wire. Like the DS10A.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: liderbug on July 04, 2014, 07:19:22 PM
Brian, Thanks, I've got a couple of DS12a's on order.  I'm thinking adding a rotating shaft with magnet.  Should be here Wed. then give me a couple of days to construct and test...
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: Brian H on July 05, 2014, 06:01:41 AM
OK. Let us know how it works out.
The DS12A has two separate Zones in it. The Internal magnetic switch is near the small arrow on the side. The external one can be connected to the small terminal strip on the bottom. It has a piece of wire in it so the Zone is normally closed.
Both zones will send the check in message about every sixty minutes.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: liderbug on July 05, 2014, 08:07:47 AM
Just got and email - "Shipped".   So while my breath becomes baited...  What is the range of a CM19a?  25'? 50' 7000'?  Assume no walls.

Thanks
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: dhouston on July 05, 2014, 09:27:37 AM
25-30' is typical but this little trick will double or triple that.
P.S. baited breath might catch flies but...
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: liderbug on July 05, 2014, 10:20:08 AM
But it be the flys I want - protein   :)%

Aside:  my liquid tank (24" deep), a brick sized block of styrofoam, an old curtain rod with a short piece of heavy wire glued every inch and a micro switch -> psc01 ... so how... ds12..... Oooooooo Ahhh ya, got it.  A shaft with 2 wheels, one .3xxx" in dia = 1" around, second wheel with magnet attached.  The Oooo Ahhhh comes from: our new http://library.ppld.org/library-21c (http://library.ppld.org/library-21c) Library has a couple of 3D printers.  And the cost is penny's.  "Tea, Earl Grey, hot." 

 >!
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: dhouston on July 05, 2014, 12:46:51 PM
But it be the flys I want - protein   :)%
Yep, hydroponic veggies are a bit shy on protein.

If you need more range, you can get hundreds of feet by adding an eggbeater antenna to the CM19A receiver.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: Brian H on July 05, 2014, 01:14:49 PM
Dave;
Do you think the Eggbeater Antenna may mess up the transmitter part of the CM19A?
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: dhouston on July 05, 2014, 01:35:24 PM
Do you think the Eggbeater Antenna may mess up the transmitter part of the CM19A?
I don't recall whether I've seen the innards of the CM19A but it should be possible to wire independent TX/RX antennae. Of course, adding  it to TX would give you really great range (I might possibly futz with Noam's lights without giving his neighbors CFLs.  ;D) but that would be violating FCC rules.
The schematic shows that TX & RX share the small wire antenna but I suspect it would be easy to cut a trace between C18 and the antenna and then run a signal wire from C18 plus a ground wire to a 50-ohm BNC connector. Given that it's USB-powered, one could even send 5V over the coax to power a preamp at the antenna for truly impressive range. Several years back I mounted an eggbeater atop the MR26A which used the same plastic case as the CM19A so that's another option. I had pictures but suspect they are on a long retired W98 PC.

I just recalled that a friend of mine designed a very sophisticated method of measuring the depth of liquid in a tank. It did not employ X10 but it might be adaptable with your Raspberry Pi. Check GTBecker's posts to the ZBasic forums.

Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: Noam on July 07, 2014, 01:15:00 PM
What about hacking up a PalmPad remote? You could wire a DC power supply in place of the batteries, and wire the switches to the button contacts. You would need to make sure the float disconnects the contacts as it passes each level, but it might work.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: liderbug on July 07, 2014, 03:24:30 PM
I've thought about that - the problem is the float only moves, ever so slightly every 2 hours and the chance of it stopping in the "on" depressed position.  I've got on order a DS12a and mounting the magnet on rotating shaft - film at 11...
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: dhouston on July 07, 2014, 05:14:20 PM
Here's the thread on Tom Becker's method.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: dhouston on July 08, 2014, 02:17:46 PM
I have updated my webpage with instructions for modifying the CM19A receive antenna.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: Brian H on July 08, 2014, 04:08:58 PM
Thank you for the instructions to add a external receiver antenna to the CM19A.
Helpful from me
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: HA Dave on July 08, 2014, 11:08:41 PM
I have updated my webpage with instructions for modifying the CM19A receive antenna.
  • http://davehouston.org/ImproveCM19A.htm

AWESOME!
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: bkenobi on July 09, 2014, 10:50:44 AM
Do you need to worry about putting +5v on the signal receiver inside the CM19A?  I assumed that the power injectors I've used (and currently use) apply power in one direction but don't let it pass back the other way.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: dhouston on July 09, 2014, 11:15:28 AM
Do you need to worry about putting +5v on the signal receiver inside the CM19A?  I assumed that the power injectors I've used (and currently use) apply power in one direction but don't let it pass back the other way.
C18 will block DC from the CM19A receiver circuitry. And, I've never seen a receiver without such a series capacitor on the input (although I still advise confirming one exists).
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: liderbug on July 12, 2014, 10:53:07 PM
[UPDATE]   1 L of a week - M,T 5 rooms of new carpet and "we don't move furniture, we just lay carpet...".  Mon @ 10AM FedEx and my DS12A,  Tues: "Daddy can you help install my new garage door? (bat, bat, bat...)", Thur: sat half the day gathering sigs to recall our Sheriff, Fri. more of the same. Sat- recall came up short @$!#@!$!  Sat lunch time added batteries to my DS12 and via CM19A:

  07/12 11:52:38 Rx RFSEC DE:33:00 Contact_normal_max_tamper_DS12A
  07/12 11:52:39 Rx RFSEC DE:33:00 Contact_alert_max_tamper_DS12A
  07/12 11:53:02 Rx RFSEC DE:33:00 Contact_normal_max_tamper_DS12A
  07/12 11:53:03 Rx RFSEC DE:33:00 Contact_alert_max_tamper_DS12A
  07/12 11:53:44 Rx RFSEC DE:33:00 Contact_alert_max_DS10A
  07/12 11:53:46 Rx RFSEC 3E:B3:80 Contact_normal_max_DS10A
                      :)% :)% :)% :)% :)%

So out to garage,  cut a 3" length of rubber roller from an old SM typewriter, an 6"x6" alum. plate that use to hold power transistors, a couple of 1/2"x 1 alum angle, 30" of alum double pane window channel, screws'n nuts, glue ... the 30" of channel will ride up&down on some foam rubbing on the roller which will turn the shaft that will spin (very slowly) a small magnet(x2) which will pass by the DS12.  When installed I'll post some photos.

Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: Brian H on July 13, 2014, 06:38:04 AM
Progress is being made.
Will be waiting for the added results as you discover them.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: liderbug on July 14, 2014, 10:29:35 PM
[UPDATE] Minor design change - removed large (3/4") rubber roller and virt shaft.  The float is still there with a shorten virt. pvc pipe (1/2") -> change... nylon string up an over the 1/8" shaft and back down to pvc weight.  As the float lowers, pulls string, rotates shaft, spins cross arm with 2 magnets - think shaft with propeller - magnets on prop tips.  I had some mag-switchs with magnets from the local model train store.
(http://blackforest-co.com/a300/hydro/dev2.jpg)
I've soldered in a switch that runs to the aux input of the DS12A.  Ya, Rube Goldberg strikes again - but man is he hav'n fun!  A RaspberryPi runs the sump pump every 2 hrs for 40 seconds.  A WeatherDirect unit watches temp(in/out) & hum.  If the hum drops X10 opens a sprinkler valve -> misters. And now after some calibration my RasPi/19/12/float/string/magnets will keep track of soup in the tank.  Still a little cleanup/tiedown/etc.

If you 'view image' and remove dev2.jpg you should get a list of other pictures.  That's a penny on the black plate - ref size. Also http://lidderdale.net/hydro/ (http://lidderdale.net/hydro/) My favorite time - Sunday morning, real early.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: Brian H on July 15, 2014, 08:09:05 AM
Thanks for the updates on your project.
I believe I had looked at your web site awhile back. As the front page photos looked very familiar.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: liderbug on July 15, 2014, 11:00:47 AM
Very possible as I've had my CM11 for ??? 10 years+???  In my last post I went in to detail on my RG device but little about the X10 side.  So the CM19A sends:

 07/15 06:22:20 Rx RFSEC DE:33:00 Contact_normal_max_DS10A
 07/15 06:22:22 Rx RFSEC 3E:B3:80 Contact_alert_max_DS10A
 07/15 06:22:22 Invalid parity 
 07/15 06:22:22 Invalid parity

about every 1.5 hrs and when the magnet moves past the switch I get:

 07/14 15:07:31 Rx RFSEC 3E:B3:80 Contact_normal_max_DS10A

Key:  "3E" and "normal" 

Then there's a PHP script that does CURL my raspi CM19A log.  Does CURL weatherdirect.com/myacct for the temps/humd.   MYSQL db keeps track of everything. 

Everybody - thanks for the advice and ear.

Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: liderbug on July 15, 2014, 10:41:03 PM
It's working    :)%


------
        ------
                --------------------
                                           ----------------------


(the graph)
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: Brian H on July 16, 2014, 06:06:45 AM
I am glad your project is working as you wanted.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: liderbug on July 16, 2014, 08:50:25 AM
When I first got my DS12 - no house code, no unit code I was  B:( but it works just fine with my CM19   :)%
Although documentation as to it's output is a bit lacking.

Thanks for the help & support.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: Brian H on July 16, 2014, 03:42:09 PM
I am not too sure if the X10 Protocol file will give you any more information. The Security type messages are mentioned in it.
http://www.authinx.com/manuals/activehome/xtdcode.pdf
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: dhouston on July 18, 2014, 02:51:40 PM
The secure messages mentioned in the referenced document have nothing to do with the RF Security Protocol which is similar to the regular RF protocol. I believe Charles Sullivan had documented it as it pertained to security devices but am not sure where to find it. I also documented it but it's on a long retired W98 PC.

For reference, I have added a picture of an eggbeater mounted atop an MR26A which used the same case as the CM19A.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: Brian H on July 18, 2014, 06:33:46 PM
Thank you for the link Dave.
I will have to give it a look at.
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: liderbug on August 07, 2014, 01:43:19 PM
UPDATE # whatever...  I think my design (Rube G.) is working.  a brick of styro, a small curtain rod ~6', and old plastic tape measure tape (very flexable), up and over a shaft about 1/8" dia. - off the end of the (horz) shaft is a cross bar, think "T" with small magnets on each end of the top of the "T".  As the float lowers (pump running) the rod pulls the tape down, turns shft, rotates magnets past mag-switch and I get:

08/07 11:01:26 Rx RFSEC Addr: 3E:B3:80 Func: Contact_normal_max_DS10A
08/07 11:02:41 Rx RFSEC Addr: 3E:B3:80 Func: Contact_alert_max_DS10A

It spends 90% of the time in "alert" mode.  SW detects the "normal" and subtaracts 1/2" from the count (http://lidderdale.net/hydro/ghtemp.png)
The Brown line being the water level.  PHP, PhPlot, Weather direct Tx60, Mysql
Title: Re: PL activity to a CM19a
Post by: Brian H on August 07, 2014, 03:50:36 PM
Thanks for the update.
I am glad it is working for you.