X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: lviper on December 18, 2014, 09:20:38 AM
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Man, I've had no shortage of problems recently. Had erratic behavior and figured out my XPCR was the problem. Solved that. >!
Now I have a SS13a that is having a problem turning on a light. I have 3 lights in my family room that are controlled by the SS13a. The past 2 mornings when I try to turn on F1 using the SS13a, nothing happens. Try again and nothing happens. Thinking it may be an RF problem I walk over to get my trusty palm pad. Before I can get the palm pad the light suddenly turns on. I go back to the SS13a and can now turn it on and off normally.
So I head to the log and I see a couple of Receive RF F1 ON for the light followed by several dozen (yes, several dozen) Receive F1 commands. Then a few Receive F ON just before the light actually turned on.
I assume Receive RF comes from the SS13a
Then Receive F1 comes from AHP
And Receive F ON is what finally turns on the light but it can't do it since the CM15a is being flooded by the Receive F1 command.
So I don't think the SS13a is the problem. Is the problem AHP and/or the CM15a?
This is a fresh clean install of both Windows 7 Pro and AHP. AHP is a cloned install using the registration from my old XP Pro computer.
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Just in case, here is the setup and modules used.
SS13a set to F1-F3
F1 and F2 each use the XPDF inline dimmer.
F3 uses LM465
AHP with CM15a
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I think I've found my problem. I have a XCPR and I think it is storming the codes. I just caught a command to turn on a light that wouldn't turn on and the log was repeating the extended code for 100% bright over and over till I shut the XCPR off. Guess it's time for a new one. Or better yet I may get a XTB-IIR.
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There is a wiki page on the XCPR causing power line flooding with Status requests. So it would be possible a new one would do the same thing. Unless yours deteriorated with age.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Known_Issues_with_ActiveHome_Pro
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Thanks Brian.
So are the XCPR and XTB products the only choice for a amplified repeater/phase coupler?
My XCPR is about 4 years old and just recently started to give me trouble. I don't want to get a passive coupler and then find out I need a amplifier later. That's why I originally used the XCPR and now considering the XTB-IIR. But the price difference between the 2 is over $100. Small price to pay for the reliability, but it makes me question if I should start looking at newer technology. But that would be a big investment as well.
When I started getting in to this stuff about 5 years ago, it was affordable enough to play. Now that I have it, it would be missed if taken out. So I want to continue but debating with myself over X10 or something else. Problem with something else is having to completely replace what I have since there aren't many choices that still work with X10 to slowly phase it out.
I was looking at Insteon but it doesn't look like there stuff works with X10 any longer. I'm overwhelmed with choices.
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When I bought my XTB-IIR last year, I considered that the cost was pretty high...but compared to switching to newer technology it could be considered a bargain. If it helps with your decision - installing my XTB-IIR made a HUGE difference in my home - and I now enjoy 100% reliability (which I never had...ever....despite considerable effort!). It allowed me to take some of my old X10 stuff out of the junk box and start using it in areas of my home that had always been unpredictable and unreliable. It is a very well engineered piece of equipment which restored my reliance on X10.
BTW - I had an original CM15A (ver 1.0 or equivalent) which I retired because it was storming my system - it may not be your repeater - I could make the storm end by shutting down my repeater too. I ended up substituting with an old 1132CU to finally figure it out.
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BTW - I had an original CM15A (ver 1.0 or equivalent) which I retired because it was storming my system - it may not be your repeater - I could make the storm end by shutting down my repeater too. I ended up substituting with an old 1132CU to finally figure it out.
You know, I was wondering if my problem could be the CM15a. I don't know which version it is but I bought it right at 4 years ago (12/8/2010) from X10.
I went ahead and ordered the XTB-IIR a few minutes ago. Figured it was cheaper to move forward with X10 than to change over to a new system. Plus the learning curve. I also figure if my problem is indeed the CM15a, the XTB-IIR would still be a good addition to my X10 setup. If I do find my CM15a to be the problem I'll probably go with the WGL option and a different powerline module. I just don't know if I need the W800 and a powerline module or just use the W572A with the TW523 emulation of the XTB-IIR. I still want to use my AHP and can't figure out the better solution. Thinking the W800 and some powerline module may be best.
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Weird - your doing almost the indentical analysis I did a year ago - after deciding to keep X10. Also, there's no way the XTB-IIR is a bad investment - just like you said. Here's what I ended up with.
1) WGL V572A (which I already owned) plugged into the XTB-IIR to make bulletproof wireless.
2) HCA 12.0 Plus software controlling an old 1132B (dropped AHP)
3) Because everything worked so darn well, I eventually swapped the ancient 1132B for a XTB-232 - but that was only because I was so impressed with the quality of XTB hardware I figured it was best to have a dead-solid backbone.
It was worth it. Now since everything works exactly as expected - I've spent my time playing with the HCA software to make "elegant" programs and add parameters like weather to increase the usefulness of everything (eg. in winter I turn on/off my wifes car's block heater depending on temp). Plus - the HCA software lets me control lighting or monitor other functions & activity from my smart phone, or my wife's android tablet, and over the web. Kinda everything I had imagined when I started this goofy obsession 10 years ago.
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So, if my research is correct. If I want to stay with AHP and not use the CM15a, I would need a CM11a and the W572a. Is that correct?
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Its been a long time since I had AHP - and it was only ever connected to CM15A when I had it - but I "think" it controls a CM11A (or XTB-232 which emulates a CM11A) as long as its left running & connected to your computer. Maybe check to see if that's an identified/controllable device in your AHP software.
re: V572A - yes if its plugged into your XTB repeater, it "stands alone" as a whole house RF tranceiver - completely independant of whatever AHP is doing (of course AHP can hear the codes it will generate on the powerline to run AHP macros etc).
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Yeah, looks like AHP only works with either the CM15a or CM11a. Main difference between the 2 being the wireless.
So I'm figuring for a more rock solid wireless setup, use the W572a connected to the XTB-IIR and the CM11a (XTB-232) with AHP for the macros and ability to continue to use my DS7000 security sensors for macros.
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The Cm11 is PLC only.
With it connected to AHP it will not see security RF or any RF.
The Cm19 works with AHP and will see the RF but not PLC
>!
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Tuiceman is the AHP specialist - lucky he dropped in. While your here Tuiceman does that mean V572A plugged into a TW532 equivalent X10 device won't hear or generate whats coming from security devices - or is the shortcoming CM11 hearing/reporting to AHP specifically?
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Since there is no PLC equivalent for the RF security these codes can't be placed on the Power line.
There are devices that will here security signals and map them to a standard X10 PLC signal but these aren't security signals and the OnAlert Plugin wouldn't act on them
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The Cm11 is PLC only.
With it connected to AHP it will not see security RF or any RF.
The Cm19 works with AHP and will see the RF but not PLC
>!
So am I back to using the CM15a? I assume yes if I want to use the power of AHP and OnAlert.
Basically from what I've done so far, I want my DS10a to be a trigger. Right now I can only imagine using a DS10a as a trigger to either turn a light on/off or let me know when a door or window is opened/closed. Any other reasons?
If I use the w572RF32 I can map a DS10a or other security sensor to a house/unit code that can be transmitted over PLC. Then AHP using a CM11a can hear that and trigger a macro. Is that correct? Obviously I don't see a need for OnAlert doing it this way. But since I usually have to use a phantom module for the DS10a anyway, what's the difference?
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If I use the w572RF32 I can map a DS10a or other security sensor to a house/unit code that can be transmitted over PLC. Then AHP using a CM11a can hear that and trigger a macro. Is that correct? Obviously I don't see a need for OnAlert doing it this way. But since I usually have to use a phantom module for the DS10a anyway, what's the difference?
Yes you could then do away with the OnAlert plugin.
You could also use a CM19 with AHP (cheaper then the Cm11).
It will see a security signal and send a RF signal out to turn on a light you could then use the w572RF32 or some other RF to PLC transceiver to convert the X10 lamp signal to a PLC signal
However then all your communication from and to AHP would need to be sent RF
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You could also use a CM19 with AHP (cheaper then the Cm11).
It will see a security signal and send a RF signal out to turn on a light you could then use the w572RF32 or some other RF to PLC transceiver to convert the X10 lamp signal to a PLC signal
However then all your communication from and to AHP would need to be sent RF
Just to make sure I understand.
Use a CM19 with AHP. CM19 hears DS10a and AHP/OnAlert does it thing to say turn on a lamp at I2. I tell AHP to send I2 over RF. THat's when the W572RF32 picks it up and sends it to the XTB-IIR over the TW532 emulation port and on to PLC.
Which way is more efficient and reliable? Also, somewhere down the line I do plan on experimenting with PCC and other stuff. Just need a good reliable base system setup first.
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Tuicemen regarding:
There are devices that will hear security signals and map them to a standard X10 PLC signal.....do away with OnAlert
What device(s) would those be? I've gotta think thats better than doing everything via RF....no?
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Tuicemen regarding: There are devices that will hear security signals and map them to a standard X10 PLC signal.....do away with OnAlert
What device(s) would those be? I've gotta think thats better than doing everything via RF....no?
The WGL W572RF32 will do it.
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I see - so not using the emulation port on your new repeater at all, but essentially using the PC to receive the RF side and push out via CM11, any PLC signals that might be needed on the powerline. Got it.
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I see - so not using the emulation port on your new repeater at all, but essentially using the PC to receive the RF side and push out via CM11, any PLC signals that might be needed on the powerline. Got it.
Actually no.
Option one. W572RF32 connected to emulation port on XTB-IIR and have it map the security sensors to a house/unit code and put it on the powerline. Then AHP with a CM11a picks that up and runs the macro.
Option two. W572RF32 is till connected to the XTB-IIR but doesn't map the sensors. AHP with OnAlert uses a CM19 and listens for the sensors to run the macros but sends an RF signal to the W572 to be put on the powerline via the XTB-IIR. In other words, with this option AHP is only an RF transceiver never putting anything on the powerline. All PLC commands rely on the W572 and XTB-IIR.
Both options sound very reliable with option 2 sounding a little cheaper.
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OK (somehow RF32 made my brain think RS232 which is where I went off the rails) - option 2 does sound cheaper...but "feels" like it might be slower for other day to day stuff. Maybe not - just not sure.
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OK (somehow RF32 made my brain think RS232 which is where I went off the rails) - option 2 does sound cheaper...but "feels" like it might be slower for other day to day stuff. Maybe not - just not sure.
Yeah, option 1 sounds more solid. Besides, any macro I make using a security sensor needs to use a phantom module anyway because of conditions. The only reason I see to use option 2 is cheaper and the use of OnAlert. Well it's not that much cheaper and I would only use OnAlert to see the sensor and have AHP trigger a phantom module.
Option 1 also opens the door for different softwares like HAC or PCC to name a couple.
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I think your wise beyond your years. When I dumped AHP a year ago - it was a struggle changing operating systems, hard drives etc. and everyone lived in fear that a PC failure would shut down the household. It didn't look like a good long term choice back then. But Tuicemen and the new X10 folks appear committed to bringing it back to life and keep adding features - so its not a bad idea to stay with it now. Once you have a solid backbone (sounds like your on the path) - it becomes all about the software doing what you want. Much more enjoyable than chasing bad CFL's around the house.
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Yeah, things for X10 certainly are looking up and considering the time and money already invested, why not continue down that road.
I'll wait and see if the XTB-IIR solves my current problems. If it does I'll go down the WGL road later after the holidays when I can generate the extra cash. However, if the CM15a becomes the problem, then instead of throwing $80 to $100 at it, I'll spend the extra and get the WGL/CM11a or XTB-232 direction. That gets me back up and running with a solid backbone and future expansion/opportunities. And still for a lot less than converting over to newer technology that still isn't standardized.
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I highly doubt you'll have PLC signal strength/reliability problems after the XTB-IIR (assuming you had any). Be sure to update once its installed & running for about a week - I'd be interested to know if your CM15A turns out to be storming you, or if it was the old repeater.
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As I wait for my XTB-IIR, I've been watching my log a lot more now and have a question. What is the normal log entries for an RF switch to turn on a lamp? I assume the log should show something like this.
Receive RF F1 ON
Receive RF F1 ON
Receive F1(Module Name)
Receive F1(Module Name)
Receive F ON
Receive F ON
Is that normal? Or should there be one entry each?
Here is what I currently get.
Receive RF F1 ON
Receive RF F1 ON
Repeated several dozen times - Receive F1(Module Name)
Then finally - Receive F ON
Receive F ON
and the light comes on.
I just want to confirm normal log entries so when I replace the XCPR with the XTB-IIR I know what is normal.
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I never had any luck using the stick a switches.
I had hoped I still had one to play with but it looks like they may have found their way to the trash.
Using a Palm Pad (HR13a) the activity log shows:
Receive RF F1 ON
Receive F1(Module Name)
Receive F ON
However if you hold down the button or it sticks a bit you can get info like your seeing.
Maybe your switch needs a good cleaning.
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I never had any luck using the stick a switches.
I had hoped I still had one to play with but it looks like they may have found their way to the trash.
Using a Palm Pad (HR13a) the activity log shows:
Receive RF F1 ON
Receive F1(Module Name)
Receive F ON
However if you hold down the button or it sticks a bit you can get info like your seeing.
Maybe your switch needs a good cleaning.
Thanks Tuicemen. I actually get the same results from 2 different stick-a-switches and 3 different palm pads. This is why I think the XCPR is my problem. The double Receive RF could be from pressing the button too long, but I think the several dozen Receive F1(Module Name) is the XCPR repeating the signal over and over. At least I hope so and the XTB-IIR will at least solve that problem. In fact, all of my RF devices have always showed at least 2 Receive RF entries. Motion sensors, stick-a-switch and palm pads. The only thing that only shows one entry are the security sensors.
Worse case is the CM15a is the problem and I get all the improvements of the XTB-IIR once I get things fixed.
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Just a quick update. I received my XTB-IIR today on Xmas Eve. What a fantastic Xmas gift to myself.
I installed it and so far the flooding of commands seem to have stopped. I'll continue to monitor and give another update. Right now it's off to the holidays.
Wishing everyone a happy and safe holiday season.
Dave
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Just a quick update. I received my XTB-IIR today on Xmas Eve. What a fantastic Xmas gift to myself.
"From Me - To Me" gifts are always right on! ;D
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Well, I feel safe saying that my flooding problem seems to be solved with the replacement of the XCPR with my new XTB-IIR. I have not seen one flooding incident since I installed it 2 days ago. So I'm a happy camper at the moment. :)%
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Good to read your flooding signal problems are gone.
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All
I posted on another thread as well so hopefully that or this will trigger.
I noticed the comments on another thread about using an XPCR "being another problem" beyond scope of post. Like many other people I have been having X10 problems for about a year or two. It used to be solid as a rock. Then things changed. With tips from the Tuiceman site I've managed to get some control back but I have to have a PC running with a CM11A. But the AH program seems to need restarting every now and then. I have simple timers, no macros. Some timers work. Some don't. I can see the timers in AH but one will show up in the activity monitor and one won't. I used to use a CM15A. Now I can't tell if that's working or not. It says things are downloading to the interface but the routines don't seem any different than PC + AH + CM11A.
I thought maybe it was noise etc so I bought an XPCR. Given that much of what I mention is AH related I guess I'm grasping at straws but I wondered what your XPCR problems were and how you knew you had them. I don't want to install one more variable and yet another potential source of a problem. You mention flooding. How do you know this is happening/
I see references to dumping AH and struggling with the "improved" AH. Where can you go from AH and as of today's date is it worth jumping or trying to make AH work? Given that AH seems to be as much a contributor to my issues jumping seems attractive but it could be out of the frying pan and into the fire!!
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Sorry. In previous post it's a CM19A not CM11A.
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dwills, I discovered my flooding problem when I went to turn on a light using the stick-a-switch and it didn't come on. I then looked in my AHP log and noticed the command repeating itself continuously. Once the flooding stopped either on it's own or me tripping the breaker for the XPCR, the light came on.
Once I replaced the XPCR with the XTB-IIR my flooding problems have stopped. I still have the little quirks with AHP and some macros not running once in a while, but I don't do many fancy things anyway.
I'm currently looking at HCA, Home Control Assistant and am liking what I see so far. What I really like about it is it will do X10 as well as others. So if I decide to add other things like Insteon, zwave and the like, I can use HCA.
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lviper - are you "test driving" the full Plus package of HCA currently - or the limited one?
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lviper - are you "test driving" the full Plus package of HCA currently - or the limited one?
Full version. I wanted to look at how to program things. I haven't set it p with my CM15a since I have to load a different driver to use the CM15a with HCA. But I have liked what I see so far and have ordered a WGL W800 as well as HCA Plus from Smarthome. They had the software for $120, HCA directly is $160.
First thing I really liked about HCA is the fact I can listen for the DS1a via the WGL W800 and act on it directly using "conditions" without the need to use a phantom module.
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I think I bought my HCA via Smarthome also - the prices are always better. Obviously they have a distribution arrangement that HCA doesn't want to damage. Have fun!
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Well that answers another question. Where do people flee when they abandon AH? Man that's expensive stuff but I guess if the HCA software and XTB hardware get control of legacy X10 modules it's a solution. What bugs me is it used to work. But as others have pointed out the whole electronic environment is noisier today so what might have worked when this stuff was sold as Radio Shack wouldn't work today because then we didn't have all the stuff plugged in that can create noise such as TVs, microwaves, chargers, routers and who knows what else.
I also saw another system while I was trolling - Z Wave but again big $$. Could replace everything at mega bucks or have dual systems. I'm thinking X10 never realized the potential for their product and what they could have charged and invested to improve and get things "right" instead of going out of business and resurfacing with the same hardware that has been around for 30 years? Well 25 anyway. I still have a plug in Radio Shack X10 mini controller with clock that still works and the layout is just about identical to what is sold by X10 today.
At the price of replacing X10 I have more of an incentive to make it work. I discovered another problem that was not AH or X10. It was me. When I added modules and set the timer I didn't notice the calendar duration and it was Jan 1 to Jan 1 or something very limited. The timers that worked had no limit or were Jan 1 to Dec 31.
Thanks for the answer on the storming. I hear from the maker of the XTB that XPCR problems are legend and common so forewarned is forearmed
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Just wanted to give an update as to where I am and what I did.
While the XTB-IIR did indeed fix my flooding problem and gave x10 plc reliability at the same time, I was back to the same quirks of AHP. By quirks I mean the need to use phantom modules for security devices if I wanted to use conditions and problems with flags sometimes not being set. Using phantom modules also meant an extra second or 2 before a light would turn on.
So I took the plunge and also purchased HCA 12 Plus. HCA is Home Control Assistant. I also got the WGL W800USB. So now I have the W800 receiving all RF signals from remotes and security devices including security remotes and they go directly in to my computer. For X10 plc I'm using a CM11a. I can now use a DS10A to trigger my porch light to turn on when I open the door and it actually turns on before I step outside, about 1 second later. Before with AHP and phantom modules it took 3 to 4 seconds.
What I really like about this setup is the fact that X10 RF signals are not directly broadcasted over the powerline by default. I can tell HCA to automatically retransmit the RF to PLC by house code, or I can setup programs for each HC/UC one by one. More work to setup but it keeps the powerline free of unnecessary PLC transmissions. So now my motion sensors not only trn on lights at the times I want, the PLC from these motion sensors do not clutter the powerline on the other times I do not want the light on.
This is a very powerful solution if anyone is looking to move on from AHP. I wasn't looking but when Joe S. mentioned his setup earlier and I looked in to it, I jumped. So thanks Joe.
Also, if interested Smarthome has the HCA12 Plus for $120 while direct from HCA it's $160. You have to wait for the CD to be mailed, but the $40 savings was worth the wait.
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I know....right? And we still have the option to integrate Insteon, UPB or Z-wave controllers/devices if we ever feel the urge or have an application specific to a product using those protocols. Since HCA I've actually made room occupancy sensors work properly!