X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: charmschool on January 01, 2015, 09:38:22 PM
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I just wanna turn on the porch light from my car when I get home after dark so I can see how to unlock the door, not become a home automation expert, or spend a ton of money. I did enough research to figure out I could purchase a TM751, a WS467 light switch & a KR19A remote for under $50, an acceptable financial risk. So, now that it's all installed, everything works, with the exception of failure to power off via the remote control. The wall switch works just fine ON & OFF. The ON function on the remote also works fine, but the OFF function on the remote only works if I haven't turned on the light for a while, and even then only the first time I try it, immediately after turning it on, and only the first time. I'm running a 60 watt incandescent bulb,
have the TM751 plugged in to the same curcuit & have no other equipment on it. After further research, I'm assuming the problem is noise/increased signal from the bulb after it has heated up, but a noise filter seems to run at least $35 & I'm not sure it will resolve the issue, or if it's even worth the expense. After all, I can turn off the light at the switch after I'm safely inside. Should I just accept the funtionality I have now, or are there any other low cost options I shoud consider? Keep in mind I'm a 54YO female with limited electrical skills & tools. ;D
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An incandescent light should not really cause added noise - but there might be something nearby that is. Compact Fluorescent bulbs or low cost fluorescent fixtures, and lo-cost surge suppressor power strips are known trouble makers. There is also a list of other X10 troublemakers in the troubleshooting information section of: http://davehouston.org/noise.htm
Not trying to make you an expert - but just so you get an idea what to look for (ignore the information that sounds too complicated...that's what I do).
You can move the TM751 around a bit - it doesn't have to be physically close in order to be "electrically close". Also, there might be something plugged in near the TM751 (or the light switch) which is interfering with the signal, that you might be able to plug in somewhere else....its worth a shot (eg no-cost) moving the TM751 around a bit and testing, anyway.
Oh...one more thing - a lot of people put their cell phone chargers near the front door, and it turns out there are some really bad/noisy ones. Hard to imagine something the size of a big sugar cube can mess up X-10 so badly.
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The KR19A defaults to A1 and A2 X10 Addresses. Have you reprogrammed it?
The TM751 is hard set to Unit 1. Most of the TM751s have a built in relay switch in it. There where some awhile back with a pass through outlet.
If you are using the WS467 on its default A1. Can you hear the TM751 going on and off with the KR19As buttons but the WS467 only goes On but not Off? A small night light or lamp in the TM751s output would show if it is going On and Off.
I have seen some reports that reversing the WS467s Black and Blue wires connected to the circuit sometimes helped.
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Sorry for the late replies. This set up is for our weekend place, and I haven't had time to check on anything until today. I tried Joe's suggestion of moving the unit around. No improvement. Brian, I can hear it clicking on, but it does not click off. Well, it doesn't until I turn the stove on. I do that, and off works like a charm. I've got phase coupling issues, don't I? :(
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If your stove on makes it work...then, there is a 94.78% chance you have the TM751 on one phase, and your light on the other. If moving the TM751 didn't help - move it all over the place to goofy & unlikely locations (bathrooms, laundry rooms etc.) Eventually you should find a circuit on the same phase.
Passive phase couplers can be simple (eg. plugs into 220v extra dryer outlets etc.). But if your planning on more automation in future, passive couplers probably won't make your whole home reliable...just improved. In this day and age of electronic conveniences, only a GOOD QUALITY repeater (there's only one) can make a BIG difference. But its not cheap. Totally up to you at this point.
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There are some great sets of tutorials. On how X10 works and what can cause issues.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
http://www.act-remote.com/PCC/uncle.htm
I would also say if the stove being on helped. You have a phase coupling issue. As it coupled the X10 signal on one phase to the other phase where the light switch is.
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Thanks for the replies! I finally found an outlet on the same phase, and the unit operates properly there. Sadly, it's too far for the K19r signal to reach from the driveway. B:( Since I don't have plans to do any other HA, I just can't justify the expense of the GOOD quality repeater or a passive phase coupler. I just bought a SR751 for $30, and will try adding it to the mix, in the outlet closest to the driveway (on the other phase). Gonna be interesting to see if this works! I'll report back with the results.
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You could try adding a passive antenna to see if that gets you anywhere. This is an easy thing to do and doesn't cost anything (assuming you have some wire around). Find yourself a solid core wire and cut it to 18" or 36". Then, tape this passive antenna to your standard TM751 antenna and see if you have better range. You can use a 9" length too, but I believe that's the same length as the standard transceiver antenna, so it won't likely make a difference.
You can use any wire, but common suggestions I've seen/used are:
* coat hanger (bend it straight and cut to length)
* Romex electrical wire (14 or better gage and just pull one out of the full bundle)
* coax cable wire (cut to length and remove the core wire)
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http://www.davehouston.net/X10_feng_shui.htm
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The SR751 has extremely good range from what I seen in my tests.
I was able to triple my range of a security sensor in my initial tests.
#:)
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I am STOKED! It works! ;D The SR751 is plugged in to outlet about 40' from where I park, on one phase. The TM751 is plugged in to the opposing phase on the back side of the house (same phase as the switch). It has near line of sight to the SR751, so that may help, but IT WORKS! ;D Even the perfomance of K19A remote seems to be better...it fires from inside the car now if I point it just right. My only complaint (very minor, and I only mention it for informational purposes since this is a relatively new device & I know some may be curious) is that there is a definite delay for the light to respond. It's a full two seconds, maybe a bit more. I understand it's caused by the need to repeat the signal, and I'm sure I'll get used to it. Right now I'm still expecting it to fail every time I hit the remote, but once I get used to the fact that it actually works, I'm sure I won't even notice it.
Guys, I really can't thank you enough for being so kind and helpful. I know my piddly little problem & lack of technical knowledge required you take a deep breath and "dumb it down" for me. You could have been snarky, but you weren't. Just genuinely polite & helpful. I appreciate it more than you could ever know. Thank you! :)%
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Thank you for the update.
We also are very happy. The improved SR751 was released. >!
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You never know...one day as you sit proudly controlling lights from your car, you may get the bug like we have! My home is definitely automated. I use motion sensors extensively to operate lights throughout my home. One day a few years ago, my wife walked into the laundry room with an arm full of clothes. The system is designed to turn the light on, but a failed component (a TW523 hooked to WGL receiver) didn't turn the lights on for her. I heard her say "what the heck is going on"? She had become so reliant on the system, that she set the load down in the dark and came to tell me both lights must have burned out simultaneously. I went with her and turned on the light with the switch. She laughed, realizing that was what most people use when they enter a dark room...but since she hadn't used a light switch in various rooms for almost 10 years - she politely told me I better darn well get my system fixed!
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Out of curiosity, if you press the remote button next to the TM751, does the light turn on quicker? I assumed that the SR751 simply echoed the commands it heard at the same time, but perhaps that's not the case.
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I suspect it waits for the air to clear before transmitting to avoid RF collisions.
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Good to know. I guess that means that, for me, a modified CM15A antenna is a better option (as currently installed).
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Out of curiosity, if you press the remote button next to the TM751, does the light turn on quicker? I assumed that the SR751 simply echoed the commands it heard at the same time, but perhaps that's not the case.
Yes, the light responds faster when it's only communicating with the TM751. The SR751 definitely takes an extra second or so to relay the signal. Since I have a extra button on the remote, I went ahead & installed a second switch for an post light in the front yard :' . I notice I have to wait an extra second or two after I push the #1 button before the #2 button will send a signal (so total time for both lights to activate is about 4-5 seconds). It could be either "waiting for the air to clear", or I just takes extra time to transmit since it's not on the same phase. This weekend, I'll try plugging the SR751 in to the same phase & see if that has any impact on response time. I figure the least I can do is be a test subject, after ya'll have been so helpful. ;D
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You never know...one day as you sit proudly controlling lights from your car, you may get the bug like we have! My home is definitely automated. I use motion sensors extensively to operate lights throughout my home. One day a few years ago, my wife walked into the laundry room with an arm full of clothes. The system is designed to turn the light on, but a failed component (a TW523 hooked to WGL receiver) didn't turn the lights on for her. I heard her say "what the heck is going on"? She had become so reliant on the system, that she set the load down in the dark and came to tell me both lights must have burned out simultaneously. I went with her and turned on the light with the switch. She laughed, realizing that was what most people use when they enter a dark room...but since she hadn't used a light switch in various rooms for almost 10 years - she politely told me I better darn well get my system fixed!
LOL,"get" the bug? Your story made me realize I already have it to some degree. It's been so long that I didn't make the mental connection that I already have one light at the weekday home on a remote sensor, in a small section hallway that didn't have a fixture. That lead me to recall the Honeywell remote control on the heat & air system at the weekend cabin. I've just taken another step on the slippery slope, haven't i? (see post above :' )
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This weekend, I'll try plugging the SR751 in to the same phase & see if that has any impact on response time. I figure the least I can do is be a test subject, after ya'll have been so helpful. ;D
Since the SR751 repeats only the RF signal, the powerline phases should not make a difference. Even with a quick push of the Palm Pad remote it will resend the command several times (5?). To avoid collisions the SR751 can't transmit until the remote is done, so delay is probably the nature of the beast.
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I guess that means that, for me, a modified CM15A antenna is a better option (as currently installed).
Yes! As I have previously posted, it's fairly easy to make big improvements in RF range merely by improving receiving antennas. And, I have rued the fact that the new X10 has opted to push a repeater (a really poor solution) rather than address the real problem. Methinks the new X10 ain't so new in terms of design and marketing philosophy.