X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dhouston on January 27, 2016, 04:28:02 AM
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I didn't think it would take long for things like these to appear. Note the prices.
https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/sonoff-wifi-wireless-switch.html (https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/sonoff-wifi-wireless-switch.html)
https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/slampher-wifi-wireless-light-holder.html (https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/slampher-wifi-wireless-light-holder.html)
The MQTT & COAP protocols are covered here...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MQTT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MQTT)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrained_Application_Protocol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrained_Application_Protocol)
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Too cheap, and doesn't look like it's designed for north american market. Wiring scheme looks flimsy.
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.... Note the prices.
Kind of nice... buying directly from China. The direct on-line shopping is what caused Walmart's plan to close (140???) stores and lay off 10,000 employees. It's a new... and MUCH smaller world now-a-days. Low prices are the tip of the iceberg in this new era direct global shopping.
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Too cheap, and doesn't look like it's designed for north american market. Wiring scheme looks flimsy.
It's intended to be enclosed within a final product (e.g. your friendly WiFi enabled Crockpot - see below) and it will work in every market in the world (except certain WalMarts - sorry HA Dave but I just couldn't resist).
And, the SocketRocket-ish lamp holder looks like it might work here.
Plus, it looks ideal for the Australian chap who rejected Solar Freakin' Roadways for his Yellow Brick Road type guide at his B&B.
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Kind of nice... buying directly from China. The direct on-line shopping is what caused Walmart's plan to close (140???) stores and lay off 10,000 employees. It's a new... and MUCH smaller world now-a-days. Low prices are the tip of the iceberg in this new era direct global shopping.
Given that Walmart wiped out the small mom'n'pop shops of central business districts in small towns all over the country by importing products from China and paying substandard wages you'da thunk they woulda seen it coming. But, I suspect it's Amazon who is causing their downsizing rather than direct consumer buying from China - although I have done my part by ordering one each of the above. ;)
http://fortune.com/2014/07/01/10-largest-retailers-amazon/ (http://fortune.com/2014/07/01/10-largest-retailers-amazon/)
I'm going to try to WiFi enable the driveway before next winter.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/conductive-concrete-warms-up-to-melt-ice-electricity/ (http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/conductive-concrete-warms-up-to-melt-ice-electricity/)
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/01/conductive-concrete-melts-snow/433752/?google_editors_picks=true (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/01/conductive-concrete-melts-snow/433752/?google_editors_picks=true)
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Given that Walmart wiped out the small mom'n'pop shops of central business districts in small towns all over the country by importing products from China and paying substandard wages you'da thunk they woulda seen it coming. But, I suspect it's Amazon who is causing their downsizing rather than direct consumer buying from China - although I have done my part by ordering one each of the above
Did the eggs kill off the chickens? Or was it the chickens that did in the eggs? Or are eggs and chickens both part of a natural process?!?!?
Anyone that didn't see the coming changes in retail.... wasn't paying attention. My Dad complained about Sears and Roebuck trying to dominate the lawn mower retail industry (he owned his own shop) back in the 1950's. Business is competitive... no one can win... if someone doesn't lose.
Richard Sears and Alvah Roebuck created a new retail industry (catalog) that turned a vast frontier... into a modern nation. Sam Walton took retail into the small towns of rural America. Jeff Bezos (Amazon) has removed retail bounties. And Pierre Omidyar (ebay) founded a new way to directly and efficiently market... almost anything.
They are all great men. The dark ages saw nearly no change... and it sucked for mankind. Change is good.
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...Sam Walton took retail into the small towns of rural America.
I think Kresge, Woolworth, Newberry and others were already established there when Sam was but a mere lad.
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...Sam Walton took retail into the small towns of rural America.
I think Kresge, Woolworth, Newberry and others were already established there when Sam was but a mere lad.
Nope. Sam Walton was the first. He would fly his plane over rural community's and count the church steeples. He believed that small towns with lots of churches were good places to build stores. Crazy? Maybe. But he was a pioneer.
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Nope. Sam Walton was the first. He would fly his plane over rural community's and count the church steeples. He believed that small towns with lots of churches were good places to build stores. Crazy? Maybe. But he was a pioneer.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/walmart-closings/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/walmart-closings/)
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Don't know if it's true but he was in his plane one day a saw a Walmart with only 2 or 3 cars in it's parking lot in the middle of the day. He lands in the parking lot, the manager comes out and tells him that the new store was finishing up construction and wouldn't be open for a few weeks. NYC's idiotic elected officials are opposed to a WalMart opening here but thousands of NYC residents shop in Walmarts right over the city line and in nearby NJ, based on Walmart's analysis of credit card purchases.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/walmart-closings/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/walmart-closings/)
Not surprising. After all Sam started in Rogers, Arkansas... and for years expanded circularly in the Texas/Arkansas area. That would explain the largest numbers and likely also oldest stores.
Times are tough. This may be the year we see Target, Sears, and Best Buy close their doors (all 3 are doing poorly). It is true that on-line sales are picking up much of the lost retail sales... but not all of it. It may be something as simple as the aging baby boomers just aren't spending much... I don't know.
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It may be something as simple as the aging baby boomers just aren't spending much... I don't know.
Yeah, we are all hunkering down for the big crash.
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Yeah, we are all hunkering down for the big crash.
Maybe. I've been retired in America just over 7 years now. And where I'd like to think I am "hunkering down"..... I'd have to say reckless redistribution by a bloated federal government has sucked much of the wealth from middle America.
Retail and better restaurant's (both suffering) aren't boomer supported ventures.
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I received the ESP8266 based WiFi light and appliance devices. The quality is excellent and the threaded lamp socket is secured with 3 small screws unlike the beeswax that X10 used with the initial SocketRockets. It will be awhile before I can play with them plus I still need to find out how to control them. Hopefully, they have published a protocol.
There's an Android app so it should be possible to sniff out the protocol.
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One of the diagrams shows a phone, router, and the device with arrows suggesting direct communication. There is a cloud icon there as well, so I'm curious if it is possible to control things without internet access or if you must connect to the cloud when on the local network. I'd assume cloud is required (usually is), but if not that would be interesting.
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One of the diagrams shows a phone, router, and the device with arrows suggesting direct communication. There is a cloud icon there as well, so I'm curious if it is possible to control things without internet access or if you must connect to the cloud when on the local network. I'd assume cloud is required (usually is), but if not that would be interesting.
The ESP8266 is capable of being client or AP or client & AP simultaneously. As I mentioned earlier, I can't play with these now. I do see the Amazon Weather Service logo and some rather slender arrows, and I'm fairly certain there's no necessity for clouds. I briefly looked at the sparse documentation and it seems the Android and iOs apps can pair with the device(s) so direct control should be possible.
There's a forum (with minimal info to date) but there is a link to an Instructable (which appears to be about an earlier beta device) that implies a need for cloudy skies.
They say, in the forum, that they have yet to decide about publishing the WiFi Protocol.
PS: I believe I've seen similarly shaped clouds hovering over local Walmarts. rofl
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The sonoff-wifi-wireless-switch (https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/sonoff-wifi-wireless-switch.html) might be just the thing I've been looking for my outdoor wood furnace at the off grid place.
For the price it is worth a try.
The new furnaces have this feature but I'm not forking out the money for a new furnace when this one works just fine.
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I've done some playing with a NodeMCU (ESP8266/ESP-12E) module using the Arduino IDE. So far, I can make the LED on the module flash at different rates, host a web page, send MQTT packets, etc. They are pretty cool little devices that can definitely be used as you describe (without the cloud), but I assume they would have the device contact a cloud server rather than host a service that your phone connects to directly. If you have one, you'd certainly know more than me though!
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The User Guide indicates a need for cloudy skies...
http://blog.iteadstudio.com/user-guide-for-sonoff-slampher/ (http://blog.iteadstudio.com/user-guide-for-sonoff-slampher/)
but this answer in the forum indicates it also has local control...
http://support.iteadstudio.com/support/discussions/topics/11000001020 (http://support.iteadstudio.com/support/discussions/topics/11000001020)
so I guess you need the cloud when away from home but can connect sans cloud when at home.
Also, it looks like the firmware as well as Android/iOS apps are still under development so things may change.
These are the first devices I've seen where the ESP8266 MCU is integrated with the hardware of the final product rather than as a separate circuit board. It may or may not be possible to hijack such a device and install your own firmware. At this point I do not know whether it's possible to get it into download mode without DTR/RTS. The docs do show a Serial-TTL chip which is encouraging.
http://dl.itead.cc/IM151116002/sonoff-parts-without-433.jpg (http://dl.itead.cc/IM151116002/sonoff-parts-without-433.jpg)
And, it looks like being an early adopter means I missed out on the version that also has 433MHz RF control which would be another method of (purely) local control - it wasn't available when I ordered but is now.
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bkenobi & I pretty much hijacked this thread...
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29439.msg165536#new (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29439.msg165536#new)
turning it into a discussion of the Sonoff switch.
I'm curious whether the status tracking is by dead reckoning or by querying the device(s). The latter would seem to be a useful feature for your outdoor wood furnace application.
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Yep, hope I've fixed that.
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One more reason cited for the cloud is that each device can have up to 8 scheduled events (i.e. timers) but, as yet, there's no mention of macros. If Amazon's cloud is aware of all events (both local and remote), macros would seem a natural extension. However, the time based events might be stored within the switch (or light) - there's probably enough internal memory for that and the ESP8266 has its own RTC as well as the ability to access internet time servers. Macros, however, require a centralized controller (local or cloud-based).
While there have been only a few Sonoff related questions to Itead Studio's forum, they have mostly addressed desirable features that would be familiar to most X10 users. If Authinx is not watching this, they should be.
http://support.iteadstudio.com/support/discussions/1000058207 (http://support.iteadstudio.com/support/discussions/1000058207)
EDIT: Looking at the Sonoff schematic, there is a 1MByte Flash memory chip(25Q80BV). There's also another chip (EFM8BB1) which is an 8-bit microcontroller, the function of which is not clear to me given that the ESP8266 is a 32-bit microcontroller. (The optional EFM8BB1 handles the optional 433MHz RF receiver.)
http://wiki.iteadstudio.com/images/6/6b/Sonoff_schmatic.pdf (http://wiki.iteadstudio.com/images/6/6b/Sonoff_schmatic.pdf)
http://www.datasheet4u.com/datasheet-pdf/Winbond/25Q80BV/pdf.php?id=935848 (http://www.datasheet4u.com/datasheet-pdf/Winbond/25Q80BV/pdf.php?id=935848)
http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/EFM8BB1_DataSheet.PDF (http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/EFM8BB1_DataSheet.PDF)
All-in-all, it appears to have computing power that's a few orders of magnitude beyond the typical X10 device.
Upon further review, it appears that the TTL TX, RX, Enable & RESET are brought out to solderpads so it should be possible to reprogram the ESP8266. This could be fun!
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Yep, hope I've fixed that.
I think so. Unfortunately, the Australian chap who started that thread stopped watching it before I suggested the Sonoff switch which would seem ideal (and super inexpensive) for his application. His email is hidden or I would try reaching him that way.
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They have set the option to receive an email on a reply to that thread, however they have never returned (logged on again) to the forum.
So I doubt emailing them would help.
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Here's another low cost ESP8266 based device from the same source. This looks versatile and useful.
http://wiki.iteadstudio.com/Sonoff_SV (http://wiki.iteadstudio.com/Sonoff_SV)
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My Sonoff (https://www.itead.cc/wireless/sonoff-wifi-wireless-switch.html) just arrived the other day, I expected Air mail to be faster then the boat rofl
I hope to play with this a bit in the next few days before I attempt to attach it to my outdoor furnace.
I did download the android app and preinstalled it in hopes to get a bit of a feel for it.
you need to setup a account and request a text authorization to get it working. This took me a few attempts but on the forth attempt I was able to log on.
The unit I ordered was without the RF receiver but one can be added latter if I wish (figured my wife would hit the roof with another remote in the house). rofl
As soon as I get this powered up for testing I'll post my findings.
>!
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Will the Android app run under BlueStacks? My left hand is paralyzed and I find trying to use a phone or tablet with one hand to be more hassle than it's worth.
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............ As soon as I get this powered up for testing I'll post my findings.
>!
Will be looking forward to reading about this.
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Will the Android app run under BlueStacks? My left hand is paralyzed and I find trying to use a phone or tablet with one hand to be more hassle than it's worth.
I never thought of trying that!
I suspect it will, once I have it wired up I'll attempt it and let you know how well it works or doesn't. >!
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I've done some simple setups and ran some simple tests so far.
The App installs fine on Bluestacks it also will control the Sonoff turning it on and off.
However you can't install a new device using BlueStacks :-[
If you install with a phone the next time you open the app in Bluestacks it will appear.
You can delete a Sonoff from Bluestacks ,so far it appears only installing fails on Bluestacks.
There was a new update for the app so I installed it on the Bluestacks machine as well this still won't allow a device install.
However is a little cleaner looking
The app still needs some work with initial setup but basic functions are there.
You can setup the device so it turns the device connected to it on power up or remains off with power up which is nice.
It has a timer which can be set for just once or any or every day of the week.
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Thanks for the feedback. For many with physical limitations, using a PC (e.g. with a mouse) is easier than using a phone or tablet so it would be helpful if BlueStacks or some other app could handle everything. It could also help when reviewing new hardware.
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I had a few day at the off grid place so I took this up to see how well it may perform.
My Plan is to use it for control of my outdoor wood furnace which also has propane back up which can be set to light with propane(easy start)
The furnace is about 50 feet from the house many be 60 to the router.
Not being able to wire this up this time of year I decided to attach a simple plug to the input and plug it into the outlet at the furnace.
Doing so I was able to get the unit to connect and send it on/off commands being halfway to the house with my phone (this unit has no RF) but not from inside the home.
Since the Furnace is metal and the unit can't get wet it was inside the furnace control panel so I'm sure that was the issue.
I have plans to use a small plastic box and install it on the side of the control panel door with maybe an external antenna.
The next step I wanted to be sure of (before attaching it to the furnace) was my connection to it from the city.
I hadn't tested out side the lan prior.
I brought it back in and plugged it into a outlet next to the router and made sure it was connecting.
At this point I noticed a scrolling text in the info screen for the device.
It stated "this device has a update available" beside it was a update button.
Wow! This device has upgradable firmware something I doubt the X10 Wi-Fi unit will have.
I attempted the update but got a splash screen stating the device couldn't be update from this location or something like that. ???
I returned to the city.Once back I attempted to connect to the switch and send a off/on command.
Nothing no notification that this was working or not B:(
The next day I decided to try again thinking maybe it was my phone and hadn't turned on the Wi-Fi ( I don't have a data plan).
Still failing I decided to try my PC (BlueStacks) success! :)% the icon changed state. of course this doesn't mean it actually changed state.
From the PC I attempted the firmware update which this time I got the spinning update icon. WOW was this going to work I thought.
However after several mins nothing. Restarting BlueStacks and checking the firmware version I noticed it hadn't changed, no biggy maybe that was a bug and it actually did take.
I turned off BlueStacks and tried my phone again this time it connected however it was still saying a firmware upgrade was available so I tried it from the phone after a few min the firmware # still hadn't changed however I noticed some extras in the App so it looks like the app got updated ??? I tried the firmware update once more and this time it took.
Not sure what is going on but everything from initially adding a device to upgrading firmware was taking several attempts. >*<
Since the updates the connection and control seems to work fine from my phone as well as the PC ( so maybe the bugs are worked out now ::) :'
Since the unit is at the off grid place I can't check to see if the install process will now work from a PC
Once I get this mounted on the furnace I'll post an update, however that may be a while as I have to go in for a knee operation (may be in mobile for a bit)
>!
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Thanks for the feedback. I'm not surprised by the troubles you experienced - this is a bit of a leap for Itead Studios so it may take a bit of fumbling around before they find a bit of stability. They could certainly use someone with a better command of English to write the documentation. If you have time, you might offer a bit of feedback on their forum. And, I'm still hoping it can be made to operate under BlueStacks (or some other PC Android emulation).
I'm pleased to know you were able to do a field upgrade. As ZBasic also uses the ESP8266 built-in bootloader, it may probably will mean we can create our own firmware.
My Sonoff relay has RF but I overlooked the need to order their remote. I'll do that when next I get some PCBs made there. Once I have the remote, I'll try to suss out the protocol. If it's limited to just the two channels on the remote, it may be too limited to be of much use. But, if there are several channels (i.e. housecodes/unitcodes) it becomes both more useful and more marketable. If I get time I'll try to make that point on their forum. It's super simple to set up a PIC & RF transmitter...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/RFTipsTricks.html (https://www.laser.com/dhouston/RFTipsTricks.html)
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/PIC-RX-TX.TXT (https://www.laser.com/dhouston/PIC-RX-TX.TXT)
And, good luck on your surgery.
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Itead has added (customizable) temperature/humidity sensing firmware to the Sonoff SV.
https://www.itead.cc/sonoff-th.html (https://www.itead.cc/sonoff-th.html)
And they continue to flesh-out their online documentation with reviews, teardowns, tutorials. I think they intend to be an HA contender.
https://www.itead.cc/blog/smart-home-reviews-collections (https://www.itead.cc/blog/smart-home-reviews-collections)
There's also an Indiegogo funding page so I'd expect them to be responsive to user feedback/suggestions as well as maintain the low-cost model.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sonoff-slampher-low-cost-smart-home-solution#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sonoff-slampher-low-cost-smart-home-solution#/)
There are a few things they need to change.
- It requires your phone number to create an account.
- Setup only works from a smartphone - not from a tablet or PC.
- It requires connection to their remote server to control things.
If they don't change them and it is possible to change the firmware with ZBasic or Arduino (both of which can create ESP8266 firmware), I'm sure alternative firmware will soon appear.
As I only have dumbphones I don't know how this affects data or other usage. That might be another impetus for a change in approach. I need to check with Don Kinzer* who created the ZBasic compiler for the ESP8266 to see whether firmware can be downloaded via a WiFi link. If so, and Itead hasn't managed to block standard downloads, it will be a fairly simple matter to install alternate firmware.
*I first heard of Don Kinzer shortly after learning that Gandalf had left Middle Earth for the Blessed Realm... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaverton,_Oregon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaverton,_Oregon) I'm just sayin'.
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I'm pleased to know you were able to do a field upgrade. As ZBasic also uses the ESP8266 built-in bootloader, it may probably will mean we can create our own firmware.
yes this is promising
My Sonoff relay has RF but I overlooked the need to order their remote. I'll do that when next I get some PCBs made there. Once I have the remote, I'll try to suss out the protocol. If it's limited to just the two channels on the remote, it may be too limited to be of much use. But, if there are several channels (i.e. housecodes/unitcodes) it becomes both more useful and more marketable.
Since the RF is removable and can be swapped out with one for other frequencies. My thinking was maybe a custom RF board could be created to handle X10 I never thought about modifying one that came with.
And, good luck on your surgery.
Thanks!
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Since the RF is removable and can be swapped out with one for other frequencies. My thinking was maybe a custom RF board could be created to handle X10 I never thought about modifying one that came with.
I'll try to take a look at how easy it might be to swap RF receivers. If they're using an off-the-shelf model, it may be possible but there aren't many manufacturers supplying 310MHz.
OTOH, if we can change the protocol, we can easily convert most X10 transceivers and palmpads to 433.92MHz.
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Having now looked at the teardown video, it's obvious we can change the RF receiver in the relay to 310MHz. However, I doubt the receiver shown can fit the light socket - I'd like to see a teardown of that. I would do my own teardown but I think my light socket is WiFi only (although it may have solderpads for the RF receiver).
I was not impressed with the narrator. What he refers to as a Programming Header is the TTL header which may or may not be usable to load new firmware. In any event, I think we would prefer a WiFi link for changing firmware. He would have been well served had he looked at the schematic rather than guess at the function of various components. (Maybe he also created their documentation.)
And, while I need to dig a bit deeper, it appears it is indeed possible to create our own firmware.
http://tech.scargill.net/general-update/ (http://tech.scargill.net/general-update/)
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I've heard back from Don Kinzer. While OTA (Over The Air) programming is possible, ZBasic does not support it.
I don't know whether Arduino can do it.
And, it appears there is no way to lock the ESP8266 to prevent firmware changes so I think, in principle, we can replace the 433.92MHz RF receivers with 310MHz versions and assign X10 addresses in the new firmware to allow Palmpad, etc. control in addition to WiFi. And, I think we can eliminate the phone number/remote server nonsense and create apps for phones, tablets, PCs and... :)%
When I order their RF remote, I'll also order an RF capable light socket and do my own teardown.
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And, it appears there is no way to lock the ESP8266 to prevent firmware changes so I think, in principle, we can replace the 433.92MHz RF receivers with 310MHz versions and assign X10 addresses in the new firmware to allow Palmpad, etc. control in addition to WiFi. And, I think we can eliminate the phone number/remote server nonsense and create apps for phones, tablets, PCs and... :)%
When I order their RF remote, I'll also order an RF capable light socket and do my own teardown.
That is good news. :)%
I look forward to reading results from the light socket teardown.
>!
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Looking again at my light socket, it says RF on the label so I opened it up. Lo and behold, it has the same RF receiver board seen in the relay teardown. The PCB is very high quality when compared to the typical X10 hardware we are used to - I'll try to get some photos posted over the weekend.
But, I'm a little confused as it has 9 connections to the main board, far more than most receivers, and 3 chips onboard (8, 14 & 16 pins). One (Atmel 24C02) is a 2Kb (i.e. 256 byte) EEPROM but I am not sure about the others. I can read the label on one (SYN470R) but a web search was fruitless. The other appears blank. I need to find a schematic to try and understand things. In any event, changing it to 310MHz may be more difficult than I originally thought. There's a 6.7458MHz crystal which appears to be a fractional value of 433.92 - finding one with the correct value for 310 may be all that's needed but finding such a crystal may be difficult.
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The schematic is of no help. It has a block labelled 433Module with 6 connections but there's no schematic that I can find of the 433Module.
http://wiki.iteadstudio.com/images/e/e1/IM151116005-Slampher-View.pdf (http://wiki.iteadstudio.com/images/e/e1/IM151116005-Slampher-View.pdf)
Nevertheless I can make some educated WAGS.
The EEPROM is probably used to store the timer schedule - each device can have up to 8 timers.
Because the ESP8266 has to service the WiFi connection frequently, any applications using it must be written in a manner that allows frequent interruptions. This would really complicate 433MHz RF reception as you must be constantly listening for a code and once a code reception begins it requires near constant attention. I suspect one on the chips on the 433Module is an RF receiver (roughly analogous to the chip used in the CM15A RF receiver module).
http://www.spiriton.com.tw/download/ic/RX3310A_1.pdf (http://www.spiriton.com.tw/download/ic/RX3310A_1.pdf)
The other chip is probably a microcontroller that supervises the receiver, thus off-loading that task from the ESP8266.
Four connections (D0,D1,D2,D3) are used for an SPI data transfer link to the ESP8266.
Now for the bad news.
I don't think there's any simple way to convert it to 310MHz. As expected, I could not find a crystal that might work.
While a smartphone with their app installed can connect to multiple devices (how many?) only one smartphone can connect to said devices. This may be the reason they require your phone number. The RF remote has similar limitations.
While the cloud is provided by Amazon Weather Service which is unlikely to disappear (a la X10's servers) I would still be leery of any remote storage. Should Itead go the way of X10, it's unlikely that Amazon would continue this little part of the cloud.
While it looks like a good fit for Tuicemen's furnace (especially if he can make a remote connection) I'm afraid, as currently constituted, it's just a little bit less than useless for HA in general. Hopefully, Itead will make changes that will make it more useful.
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There's some contradictory statements in the sparse documentation and in the reviews of people who were sent prototypes for the purpose of writing reviews. I've been reading through the reviews and it appears that it is possible to share control with other smartphones. The owner (original setup) can share control by adding the phone number(s) allowed to share control of each device. While extremely cumbersome, since you have to add the phone numbers to each of the devices, it does allow for sharing control.
I still don't like the need for a phone number and the cloud.
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I still don't like the need for a phone number and the cloud.
Nor do I.
The experience with X10wti left me with a bad taste.
Others have experienced the same with multiple different companies.
Hopefully a alternate connection will be added as a option to the cloud route.
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The experience with X10wti left me with a bad taste.
Others have experienced the same with multiple different companies.
Hopefully a alternate connection will be added as a option to the cloud route.
If I can figure out how to add a review to their site I'll suggest...
- Ditch the cloud
- Ditch the phone numbers
- Make apps that work on phones, tablets, PCs...
- Supply 310MHz RF versions for N. America
- Allow users to give a device an X10 address
- Give the RF devices the ability to understand X10 RF
- Allow control from existing X10-RF remotes
- Offer WiFi/X10-RF switches & modules
- [fill in the blank]
- [fill in the blank]
On wall switches & modules - there are numerous companies offering 433MHz switches, etc. outside of N. America. While they cannot be cloned for N. America they can, along with existing N. American X10 switches/modules, serve as guides to what is needed. Giving new switches/modules RF & WiFi control eliminates the PLC noise problem. If Authinx would add WiFi to a CM15A, it would also cover existing switches/modules that are PLC only.
Itead is saying that most of their ESP8266 devices are customizable. Perhaps they and Authinx can get together on this. That would be better than Authinx manufacturing designs from X10 users here as they have offered to do.
Going back several years, I added Preset Dims to the X10 RF protocol so I could send them from a Pronto Remote to which I had added a 310MHz RF transmitter. That could easily be added to new RF/WiFi switches/modules as well.
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One of the existing reviews covers controlling a furnace (inside) and also has teardown photos of both the relay and light socket. I could have saved a bit of time had I read it earlier. And, I won't need to post photos.
http://www.chet.ie/?p=240 (http://www.chet.ie/?p=240)
He also IDs the RF receiver module. Its programming header is also broken out so this should be highly customizable. I doubt there's a 310MHz version but I can design (a better for X10) one if needed.
http://www.icstation.com/rxc6-433mhz-superheterodyne-wireless-receiver-learning-code-arduinoavr-p-7516.html (http://www.icstation.com/rxc6-433mhz-superheterodyne-wireless-receiver-learning-code-arduinoavr-p-7516.html)
And, in reading questions answered by Itead personel, I saw that they intend to release user programmable devices but here is yet another confirmation that the current products can be flashed with new firmware.
http://www.esp8266.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=721&sid=9cebebcf60b9e5f40cd5aa43b5c18993 (http://www.esp8266.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=721&sid=9cebebcf60b9e5f40cd5aa43b5c18993)
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Itead gave me a link to post my review but Firefox refused to connect because of security certificate issues.
I emailed them a brief review but pointed them here for more details.
We'll see what, if anything, comes of it.
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Apparently a SDK is to be released late April.
Hopefully this will provide a alterative way to connect.
If it still requires a cloud connection the SDK is useless.
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I'm able to log into their forum now so I'll fire of a few posts.
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I'm able to log into their forum now so I'll fire of a few posts.
I suspect the reason Firefox balked at the link I was given was that I had not logged in. Once logged in, I saw the link but others have already made most of the points I was going to make so I'll wait and see if Itead responds.
Once I finish a few other projects (I'm finding that I can't juggle multiple projects as I used to do - I don't know what will happen when I get old.), I'll set up the Sonoff relay so I can get my 'scope on things to see the signals passed from the RF receiver to the 8-bit MCU, etc.
I can design a replacement receiver for 310MHz using a Microchip/Micrel chip with a 14-pin Atmel ATtiny MCU and a slightly larger EEPROM (for timers, macros, etc.). I'll use an ATtiny chip supported by ZBasic (generic license needed). With the ESP8266 already supported by ZBasic (free version), it will simplify programming. Then we'll have a complete system we can program ourselves, avoiding Itead's cloudy skies.
It will have the same pinout as their existing 433Module so I guess I'll call it 310Module. I'll get Itead to fabricate/assemble the prototypes. They can then produce them in quantity if desired. If they prefer to stick with the current MCU, I can design that PCB as well and they can program it and the ESP8266 as they wish.
BTW, any smartphone, tablet, etc. can send RF using a small dongle connected to the headphone jack (works best with stereo). The average frequency of an X10 RF data envelope is between 1-2kHz. I did this many years ago and have notes somewhere. I believe I also posted details to a PICBasic forum if I cannot find my notes.
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I think everyone that is interested in these should at least go and check "liked" for suggestions made that appeal to them..
A suggestion with 20 likes is more apt to get implemented then one with 1 like. ;)
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I'm trying to think through what's needed in an RF receiver design that can be pin-compatible and X10 RF compatible.
The receiver used in my light socket and, I believe, in the relay has a 256 byte EEPROM, the small chip to the right of the MCU in this photo.
(http://www.icstation.com/images/big/products/3_8568.jpg)
I plan to use an ATtiny84A MCU with 512 bytes of internal EEPROM and can add more externally, if needed. I'm not sure what's needed so am open to suggestions.
The ESP8266 WiFi chips in these devices can do P2P but I'm not sure if there's a limit on how many 'peers' one can have. It may be possible to assign different X10 addresses to multiple devices and use P2P communication to execute macros. And, each device could store its own timers, internally. With Internet access, dawn/dusk could be updated every night in the wee hours. While the possibilities are not endless, I'm not sure where the end might be and need input from X10 users who might like to make use of these devices in order to get a handle on EEPROM size.
With something like my planned CM15A2Z or Ultimate X10 Controller...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/cm15a2z.html (https://www.laser.com/dhouston/cm15a2z.html)
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/ultimate-X10.html (https://www.laser.com/dhouston/ultimate-X10.html)
older PLC devices could be included in the system. (NOTE: Both the above devices have evolved. I'll update the web pages in a week or two.) Or, it might be possible to add an RF transmitter to a 'master' device (or devices) and it could repeat commands to TM751/RR501/etc. to convert to PLC.
Both the ATtiny and ESP8266 can be programmed with ZBasic. The ATtiny requires the paid generic license while ZBasicESP8266 is currently free. I'm not certain, at this point, whether the ATtiny is field upgradeable like the ESP8266.
http://www.zbasic.net/ (http://www.zbasic.net/)
The RF receiver will use a Microchip/Micrel wideband SH receiver IC. This is better with X10's LC controlled RF transmitters which may not be centered on 310MHz. The receiver can be converted to 433MHz by changing the resonator.
These new devices will be capable of control by WiFi and X10 RF but not PLC. While I'd love to see switches, wall outlets and modules that are WiFi & X10 RF compatible with dimming, etc., that will depend on Itead Studio (or some other player).
I think we've all seen that WiFi is the wave of the future - this a way for X10 systems to surf that wave.
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I don't believe this needs to much function.
Many functions could be performed via third party software.
Since timers are already configured in the Sonoff this isn't need and I've read a suggestion that dusk dawn was asked for so this most likely will get implemented as well.
I think all that is needed is:
1: Ability to configure\change a X10 address(though if not compatible with the existing frequency that isn't required and you could use addresses in excess of the 256 now available with X10)
2: Option for ON
3: Option for Off
4: Maybe a momentary On/Off option ???
I may think of other options which I'll add later
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I've been doing a bit more research and it seems there are problems with P2P or mesh networks (both Espressif and Itead indicate it's possible but ZBasic only supports Station Mode) so it may be necessary for a local controller to address each device in a manner similar to X10 except much, much faster via WiFi or X10 RF.
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I popped the hood on a Sonoff relay w/RF and it does use the same RXC6 RF receiver pictured earlier in the thread.
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This may be both easier and harder than expected.
The RXC6 RF receiver board (which is available on eBay so it's probably not Itead's design) uses...
SYN470R 300-450MHz IC
Syno Electronic Development Co.,Limited
http://www.datasheetcafe.com/syn470r-datasheet-receiver/ (http://www.datasheetcafe.com/syn470r-datasheet-receiver/)
EFM8BB10F8G-A-SOIC16 8-bit microcontroller (8051 core)
Silicon Labs
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/368/EFM8BB1_DataSheet-533965.pdf (http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/368/EFM8BB1_DataSheet-533965.pdf)
24C02BN 256 Byte EEPROM
Atmel
http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc0180.pdf (http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc0180.pdf)
The SYN470R appears to be a copy of a Micrel chip I would have chosen. The 16-pin version from Syno can be either fixed or sweep mode. Itead is using fixed mode with a crystal because CE limits require it for Europe (so most 433.92MHz transmitters are SAW or crystal controlled). Sweep mode offers wider bandwidth (best for X10 RF in N. America) and can use a ceramic resonator rather than a crystal. Ceramic resonators can be special ordered for decent prices even with a high MOQ. I bought them for my Micrel 310MHz receiver but they are, unfortunately, a different frequency.
The EFM8BB10F8G-A-SOIC16 is widely available, very inexpensive, and possibly works with Bascom51, or mikroBasic for 8051. It has a bootloader for field upgrades. I would prefer to use another microcontroller but the Itead schematics are very difficult (for me, at least) or inaccurate (DO, D1, D2, D3 do not make sense to me) so it may be safer to just copy the one in my light socket and relay.
The EEPROM is standard. I'd use a bigger one as the cost difference is negligible.
So, I can duplicate their circuit and design a 310MHz version (or they can just change the crystal to a ceramic resonator and use sweep mode for 310MHz). Whether I can program it depends on whether I can find a Basic compiler for it. I have a mikroBasic AVR license but would need a new one for the 8051 version. I would prefer to use an Atmel or PIC microcontroller but that would require Itead's cooperation. And, that may depend on how many 'likes' Tuicemen gets on their forum.
Itead is selling a 433MHz receiver that appears to be their own design. Whether they intend to use it instead of the RXC6 and whether it can use sweep mode is unknown (to me). I've added one to my cart along with a 4-button remote to be included with some PCBs I'll order shortly.
https://www.itead.cc/rf-receiver-module-433mhz.html (https://www.itead.cc/rf-receiver-module-433mhz.html)
(https://cdn.itead.cc/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/4/3/433mhz_rf_receiver_module.jpg)
It would be much better for Itead to supply 310MHz X10RF-compatible devices than for users to have to hack the 433MHz version. It wouldn't add significantly to their costs and they could find a substantial market. If they and Authinx could bed down and add WiFi+310MHz to switches/modules, I think they would both profit handsomely.
My apologies for subjecting forum members to a design class. Things may seem simpler once Itead releases the SDK they have promised by the end of April.
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Going threw the Itlead Studio forum I see it mentioned again if there is a significant interest in a suggestion they will consider implementation.
I urge everyone to at least go and click like for this suggestion: http://support.iteadstudio.com/support/discussions/topics/11000002347
An added comment will keep it a top the list of suggestions. ;)
On another note: I've thought of a use for the low voltage module (https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/sonoff-sv.html)at my off grid place.
The back up generator there has a auto start function which uses 12 volts.
This works very well except in the winter months where extreme cold temperatures can cause the generator auto start feature to fault out.
I believe I can use one of these low voltage modules to reset the auto start since a simple off back on procedure removes the fault.
Of course if X10 support was added to these it would add more possibilities and easier software implantations.
Dave, since these also have a spot for a RF board I'm extremely interested in your work on the RF receiver.
>!
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Of course if X10 support was added to these it would add more possibilities and easier software implantations.
Dave, since these also have a spot for a RF board I'm extremely interested in your work on the RF receiver.
I wasted most of last weekend going through the Itead Wiki, trying to figure out things. I believe this is another case of poor translation - they said Wiki when they really meant Wacky. Two products that make up much of the documentation have been discontinued. Neither of the schematics I found (Sonoff RF, RF receiver) are accurate - both show pins/connections that do not exist in the actual hardware. I've been trying to understand the use of D0,D1,D2,D3 and (after struggling with some documentation on the RXC6 receiver) have concluded they represent the four buttons on the RF remote and that the RF receiver merely records the codes at each 'pairing'. At this point, it seems to be a braindead application given the enormous potential of the ESP8266.
Anyway, I do have a remote and Itead's version of the RF receiver coming by slow boat with some more PCBs. I've also ordered a few of the RXC6 receivers, a few RF chips (like the one in the RXC6) plus a few dirt cheap ATmega328 MCU chips. (I suspect the RF and MCU chips are counterfeit.) and have asked for pricing and MOQ for the Ceramic Resonator needed for a wideband 310MHz receiver. If the RF & MCU chips work, I can design an RF receiver that understands X10 RF with an Arduino compatible MCU with the same form factor and only slightly higher cost than the RXC6. But, lacking a schematic of Itead's main boards for Sonoff & Slampher, I'm not sure how they communicate with the ESP8266 chip.
I can prototype this @ 315MHz using off-the-shelf resonators and adding a 315MHz SAW resonator to a Palmpad. Then, if Itead, Authinx, whoever is interested in going forward they can special order the receiver resonator needed for 310MHz in quantity. And, I added the low voltage device to my order so I can use it for testing.
Finally, I've been told via email that someone from Itead will contact me regarding my X10 compatibility email. I'm not getting my hopes up at this point, especially given that I've never heard from Authinx, but am keeping my fingers crossed.
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The (safe voltage) low voltage versions open so many options for Home Automation.
Since these can use 4-24 volts DC to operate and not only turn on/off things at this voltage but also AC things I plan on ordering several of these to play with.
With x10 support added to these via a RF module I can have solar powered HA of almost anything.
I'm extremely surprised that only dhouston has voted for the addition of X10 support thus far. :'(
B:( Maybe it is the fact that you need to log on to vote! ??? ::) :'
http://support.iteadstudio.com/support/login
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I don't have an account or else I would vote. I hate signing up for so many forums knowing that spam bots will start calling soon enough.
I didn't realize that these worked with both AC and DC up to 24V. That means sprinkler systems as one example.
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I don't have an account or else I would vote. I hate signing up for so many forums knowing that spam bots will start calling soon enough.
I didn't realize that these worked with both AC and DC up to 24V. That means sprinkler systems as one example.
I understand many have the same feelings regarding forum sign ups in fact many have an address just used for forums.
Only the safe voltage version is AC or DC and I believe the save voltage version still requires a low voltage connection to work for AC switching.
A sprinkler system is a good example as is low voltage lighting.
I have several old solar landscaping lights which I've kept the solar panels from(cheaper to by new units then replace the batteries)so I plan to experiment with these.
>!
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I don't have an account or else I would vote. I hate signing up for so many forums knowing that spam bots will start calling soon enough.
I haven't seen any spam from Itead Studios and I've been using their PCB fabrication for a year or two and have purchased a few components as well.
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The (safe voltage) low voltage versions open so many options for Home Automation.
Since these can use 4-24 volts DC to operate and not only turn on/off things at this voltage but also AC things I plan on ordering several of these to play with.
With x10 support added to these via a RF module I can have solar powered HA of almost anything.
As currently constituted, they are limited to control of 4 devices using their 4-button RF remote. Finding a way to make them compatible with X10 RF would increase the number of possible devices, making them far more attractive.
Given the raw computing power of the ESP8266, there are multiple ways to use the 4 data lines (D0,D1,D2,D3) to represent On/Off for all 256 X10 addresses but, I don't think it's practical without Itead's cooperation and, so far, I've heard nothing from them.
There is one simple implementation that would sacrifice the use of one X10 address (e.g. P16). Sending P16 On would put the RF receiver into learning mode and it would take the next RF code it hears as its new X10 address. That requires a new MCU (or reprogramming the current MCU) as well as conversion to 310MHz. Both affect only the RF receiver module (even leaving control via the smartphone apps unaffected) but require an upfront investment of a few hundred dollars minimum for the 310MHz conversion.
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As currently constituted, they are limited to control of 4 devices using their 4-button RF remote. Finding a way to make them compatible with X10 RF would increase the number of possible devices, making them far more attractive.
I didn't realized that.
Actually I never gave it that much thought.
So if you had 6 Itlead devices currently you'd need 2 remotes in order to control all 6 via RF?
I never looked into the RF aspect of these as my original interest was for control while not present(well out of range for RF).
There is one simple implementation that would sacrifice the use of one X10 address (e.g. P16). Sending P16 On would put the RF receiver into learning mode and it would take the next RF code it hears as its new X10 address.
Giving up P16 wouldn't be a big deal for most users adding more remotes to my collection would put me in the dog house for sure.
I have dozens of remotes currently 3/4 are X10 compatible
That requires a new MCU (or reprogramming the current MCU) as well as conversion to 310MHz. Both affect only the RF receiver module (even leaving control via the smartphone apps unaffected) but require an upfront investment of a few hundred dollars minimum for the 310MHz conversion.
that will deter Itlead from implementing this without significant interest. :(
I guess one shouldn't expect this anytime soon. :'(
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So if you had 6 Itlead devices currently you'd need 2 remotes in order to control all 6 via RF?
I'm still waiting on delivery of a remote but I think you could only control 4 addresses no matter how many remotes.
Both the RXC6 RF module and the 4 button remote are off-the-shelf devices available from multiple vendors. The RXC6 appears to be programmable but I've not found any documentation. Some versions are able to learn codes from other remotes.
I have the Sonoff SV on order. I think I can design a 310MHz X10 compatible RF receiver module for it using parts in my inventory (aside from a PCB) but am not sure that it will also fit the relay and light socket as it uses a comparatively large through-hole ceramic resonator. Since I have the parts on hand, there's no additional investment. I think a smaller SMD resonator is preferable given the limited space and that does require an investment but it, along with the RF receiver IC the RXC6 now uses, would reduce unit cost dramatically.
But, at this point, the lack of interest both here and on the Itead forums convinces me that we are flagellating a deceased equine.
After investigating the Electrodragon module, I'm certain that any further discussion of Itead's module is... >*<
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I'm still waiting on delivery of a remote but I think you could only control 4 addresses no matter how many remotes.
Itlead forum seems to indicate that. The one device one button response seems to rule out controlling two devices from one button as well.
But, at this point, the lack of interest both here and on the Itead forums convinces me that we are flagellating a deceased equine.
Sadly I agree.
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dhouston/Tuicemen,
Very interesting posts on ESP8266... so much that I have bought a couple to play with to figure out how things work and to keep up (more like trying to understand one or two words out of a paragraph :) ) with all the low level technical aspects that dhouston talks about. >!
However, this has to be the best technical explanation ever...
Since there are two relays, we might even have a ménage à trois although silent relays might be preferred for this.
rofl
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Very interesting posts on ESP8266... so much that I have bought a couple to play with to figure out how things work and to keep up (more like trying to understand one or two words out of a paragraph :) ) with all the low level technical aspects that dhouston talks about. >!
This did get a lot more technical than usual as Tuicemen and I tried to determine what was needed to make the Sonoff/Slampher devices from Itead X10 RF compatible. But, I think you will enjoy playing with the ESP8266. It was only introduced about 18 months ago and its potential was quickly seen and greatly appreciated by the developer community. It's available in numerous configurations and supported by several languages and development systems. If you send me a PM with your email I can give you some links that you may find helpful. It has attracted so much attention and spawned so much discussion that it is quite difficult to wade through all of the web references and resources.
To avoid confusion now that we have found an X10 friendly relay, Tuicemen has split this off into a new thread where we'll try to keep the theme more X10ish.
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dhouston/Tuicemen,
Very interesting posts on ESP8266... so much that I have bought a couple to play with to figure out how things work and to keep up (more like trying to understand one or two words out of a paragraph) with all the low level technical aspects that dhouston talks about.
I just came across this fantastic resource for understanding the ESP8266...
https://www.espressif.com/en/media_overview/news/latest-version-kolbans-book-esp8266 (https://www.espressif.com/en/media_overview/news/latest-version-kolbans-book-esp8266)
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WOW great find #:)
I just downloaded the free book and briefly scanned threw the contents.
It looks like there is lots of info code in C and C++
>!
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WOW great find #:)
I just downloaded the free book and briefly scanned threw the contents.
It looks like there is lots of info code in C and C++
>!
It gets better.
I haven't used C since Windows 3.1 days so the code snippets are not of much interest for me plus I plan to use it almost exclusively as an WiFi-to-serial adapter which needs minimal coding. However, he describes the Espressif API in detail plus rather thoroughly explains the ESP8266 capabilities. I've skimmed about 25% and have learned many new things as well as seeing clear explanations that have disabused me of certain earlier misconceptions. Both the skill of the author and of Espressif are impressive.
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Sweet find!! Good job dhouston. Your post could not have come up at a better time. The book has a ton of information with good pictures and very detail explanations on the programming side. The author is very knowledgeable. Time to roll up my sleeves. >!
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Sweet find!! Good job dhouston. Your post could not have come up at a better time. The book has a ton of information with good pictures and very detail explanations on the programming side. The author is very knowledgeable. Time to roll up my sleeves.
Yes! I wish I had this when I first learned of the ESP8266 in February of last year but it's only been available for a few months. It would have saved me a lot of slogging through misinformative and contradictory info on the web. Of course, much of that was because Espressif, who introduced it in late 2014, was unprepared for its reception and it took them quite some time to get (almost) up to speed. That I found this through a link on their website speaks volumes. And, it explains things more succinctly than the links I could have provided.
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My Sonoff (https://www.itead.cc/wireless/sonoff-wifi-wireless-switch.html) just arrived the other day, I expected Air mail to be faster then the boat rofl
I hope to play with this a bit in the next few days before I attempt to attach it to my outdoor furnace.
I did download the android app and preinstalled it in hopes to get a bit of a feel for it.
you need to setup a account and request a text authorization to get it working. This took me a few attempts but on the forth attempt I was able to log on.
The unit I ordered was without the RF receiver but one can be added latter if I wish (figured my wife would hit the roof with another remote in the house). rofl
As soon as I get this powered up for testing I'll post my findings.
>!
My Slampher light socket has RF so I jury-rigged it so I could plug it into a handy outlet for testing. While pairing seemed a bit hit or miss (even after a successful pairing the red LED frequently flashes at an ON RF command) range was at least 25 feet through 3 plaster walls so my guesstimate is it will be at least 100 feet outdoors. The quality of the RF remote is outstanding and the little sliding cover has a detent to hold it over the buttons, preventing accidental activation (wish the KR19A had this).
However, I don't think Itead is anywhere near ready for Primetime. Their documentation is wildly inaccurate and they do not respond to questions - even when asked in their forum.
I have a few of the RXC6 RF receivers (from eBay) as well as one of Itead's clones. I'll try to find time to breadboard them so I can get my scope on the D0-D3 pins to try and figure out how they operate.
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With itead finally adding local control to some of their modules (or so they say) ::) :' I decided to dig out the one sonoff basic I had which wasn't flashed with different firmware.
They have updated their app which is easier to log onto (at least with my new phone it is)
I also installed their Alexa skill to test out.
the module firmware required an update which went without a hitch ( something that it couldn't do with the old app)
The app and skill work fine however I still don't see how to control if the internet goes down. B:( Maybe I'm missing something.
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I used the feed back in the eWelink app to ask about local control and was informed it wasn't possible B:(
I've asked for clarification as to what modules are controllable if any and how (threw the app or sending a URL request to the modules IP.) I swear communication between staff is slower then with customers. B:(
On the forum support states modules must have latest firmware but no other info is supplied. ::) :'
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I swear these guys at itead are extremely slow to understand how their app works and what users are looking for.
Today there was a app update to allow RF bridge support (ya they make a learning RF bridge though nowhere near the Broadlink RM)
This update, although doesn't mention it, it appears to have added support for local control for my Sonoff (their version of it at least)
The kicker is the app still needs internet access. B:(
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Why does an app that allows local control (intranet only) require internet access? Well, other than for the obvious data mining.
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rofl Maybe local control translates to something else in Chinese.
Trying to get info from them is brutal >*<