X10 Community Forum
📸Cameras & Camera Software => Camera General Discussion => Non X10 Cameras => Topic started by: dhouston on March 19, 2016, 01:21:37 PM
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I'd like to find WiFi Surveillance Cameras that can connect to multiple routers. These would go in the entryways of 4-unit apartment buildings and allow each tenant to see who is ringing their doorbell but without commingling their individual networks or that can act as access points to which each tenant can connect with their iOS or Android device.
Is there such a beast? This is a new area for me and I'm not even sure of terminology.
How about this one?
http://www.dlink.com/-/media/Consumer_Products/DCS/DCS%20932L/Manuals/DCS_932L_A1_Manual_v1_00_English.pdf (http://www.dlink.com/-/media/Consumer_Products/DCS/DCS%20932L/Manuals/DCS_932L_A1_Manual_v1_00_English.pdf)
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I haven't seen one that will connect to multi routers.
In fact even this one appears to just connect to a single router.
Having it connect to multi routers would be a security nightmare.
Not to mention headaches if a tenant moved or one of those were connected to the internet as well.
It would be best to have it connect to a single router and set each tenant as a guest on the camera only the landlord would have access to the router and cameras setup.
The router would not require internet access so everything would be more secure.
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It would be best to have it connect to a single router and set each tenant as a guest on the camera only the landlord would have access to the router and cameras setup.
The router would not require internet access so everything would be more secure.
After minimal research I was leaning in this direction. As I have a surplus router, I've ordered one of the D-Link cameras and will now have something else to play with. Hopefully, I'll figure out how to do this.
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It shouldn't be to hard to setup with any IP camera.
A small app could be created for tenants which would connect to the cameras or you could use the built in interface.
Several guests can access at the same time so 4 tenants wouldn't be a issue.
>!
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I understand these devices work pretty well. See https://ring.com/
Not sure if they will work in your environment, but you might check it out
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I understand these devices work pretty well. See https://ring.com/
Not sure if they will work in your environment, but you might check it out
I had looked at 2-3 similar devices before posting here but their cost and the need to provide power on or near the door made them impractical. I think positioning and powering a single camera/router will be easier.
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It shouldn't be to hard to setup with any IP camera.
A small app could be created for tenants which would connect to the cameras or you could use the built in interface.
Several guests can access at the same time so 4 tenants wouldn't be a issue.
>!
I'm still confused about one aspect of the setup.
I understand how to setup the camera with the router. And, my router does have a guest SSID/password combo. I also understand how to access the camera/router from an independent device (e.g. phone, tablet) but how do I connect from my WLAN w/o exposing my WLAN to the other tenants?
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I'm still confused about one aspect of the setup.
I understand how to setup the camera with the router. And, my router does have a guest SSID/password combo. I also understand how to access the camera/router from an independent device (e.g. phone, tablet) but how do I connect from my WLAN w/o exposing my WLAN to the other tenants?
Just so I'm clear you'll have a router which will be your WLAN which you connect to the internet with.
You'll have another router which is not your WLAN and this does not connect to the internet but your tenants connect to as well as your self.
Most routers have settings for restricting and or allowing.
I'm certainly no networking expert and I'm sure this can get very technical using a bridge connection or something.
Myself I just wouldn't connect my WLAN to the other WLan.
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Just so I'm clear you'll have a router which will be your WLAN which you connect to the internet with.
You'll have another router which is not your WLAN and this does not connect to the internet but your tenants connect to as well as your self.
Most routers have settings for restricting and or allowing.
I'm certainly no networking expert and I'm sure this can get very technical using a bridge connection or something.
Myself I just wouldn't connect my WLAN to the other WLan.
But, how do I view the camera from my independent WLAN. Since it's more and more difficult for me to move from room to room, I have PCs in each room, all of which access my WLAN and NAS-HDD, so I can work on projects, browse the web, etc. from wherever I am. I'd like to have instant access to the camera from all of my PCs including one which connects to my TV so I can browse the web, stream Netflix, Amazon Prime, network TV, etc. from my recliner.
Lacking that, my primary work/web area is a desk with a 23" monitor, It has 4 video inputs (VGA, DVI, HDMI, Display Port) which I can switch between with the push of a button (and can even do picture-in-picture with certain combos). Currently, I have a Mac Mini, W7-32 PC (with swappable HDDs for 10 versions of Linux) & W10 PC connected to the monitor although I seldom have more than two under power at once. The only free video input is Display Port.
If necessary, I can use an RPi to connect to the camera/router but I need to use the monitor's HDMI with my W10 PC as it notifies me that I've got mail via the HDMI audio link to the speakers in the monitor. (BTW, I still use the recorded female voice from my first email account with AOL dating back to when the Internet was in its infancy.) Are there HDMI to
Display Port adapters? Or, are the Display Port to HDMI adapters bi-directional? Even if I find a way to connect it to my monitor, it doesn't help when I'm in another room.
As a last resort, I could add a touchscreen to the RPi so that it's a dedicated and relatively inexpensive viewer for the camera, locating it at my primary work/web area, but, again, that doesn't help when I'm in another room.
One other possibility is to tie the cameras to the WLAN they currently have (or plan) for WiFi security cameras monitoring the garage area at the rear of the buildings (which abut a wooded area where I frequently spot deer grazing). But, this seems to present the same problem of isolating my WLAN (plus additional issues related to the security of their WLAN).
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I'm not saying you can't connect your Wlan to the camera Wlan.
You'll just want to add extra security by playing with both routers settings.
Since every routers setup is different this would be something you'd need to investigate on your own.
You'd want to setup an extra windows firewall rule as well
I have played a bit with multi routers connected to a PC as well as bridging connections.
I know you can have more then one wifi adaptor connected to a PC and each can be connected to a separate router so that is what I'd explore.
A google search may help with this.
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I know you can have more then one wifi adaptor connected to a PC and each can be connected to a separate router so that is what I'd explore.
A google search may help with this.
The Router has a Guest SSID/password so that part looks simple. And, only a preapproved MAC ADDR can connect to my WLAN. It's how to connect to the secondary WLAN w/o compromising my primary WLAN that's proving elusive. Multiple adaptors gets messy with multiple PCs but Edimax dongles are cheap enough so it's not out of the realm of budgetary possibility. But a search re multiple WiFi adaptors on one PC leads to a bottomless morass of noise, no-nos and contradictions - that was one of my first stops along the way.
Maybe, I'll just have to settle for telling whichever machine I'm at to disconnect from my WLAN, then connect to the camera/router WLAN, and then reverse my steps afterwards. That might be workable if the connection details are preserved for each SSID (which it seems they are). It will likely be faster than my navigating to the door. It might also be safer - there was a recent bank robbery and, a few days later, a car jacking of a 77 year old lady about a block away.
-:) Maybe someone like Edimax can provide a roadmap. I can't imagine that I'm the only one with a need for this.
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When connecting two or more routers you have two options(LAN-to-LAN or LAN-to-WAN)
A LAN-to-LAN (Local Area Network) connection extends your network size, allowing more devices to connect. Devices can share files and resources to any other device on the network. This is not what you want.
This is!
Setting up a LAN-to-WAN network allows you to modify the DNS for just the secondary network, affecting what sites can be visited. The secondary network also makes it extra difficult for hackers to access any devices connected. Routers setup this way cannot share files or resources with the main network.
This will explain how to setup both:
http://www.wikihow.com/Connect-Two-Routers
Now the issue you may run into is each tenant may wish to connect the same and I'm not sure if that is possible (maybe with a special router)
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Thanks for the link.
While the documentation is sparse I think I've settled on this camera.
http://www.amazon.com/EWETON-1280x960P-Wireless-Detection-Alarm-W9A/dp/B01CP288FE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_5&smid=A2RQYR2E3DXPER
If I understand correctly, it allows up to 8 P2P connections (via WiFi) using the Guest SSID/Password so there is no necessity for a router except for the initial setup. It would need an Internet link for remote connections via smartphones but, currently, I'm not sure I see a way to tie in individual doorbells so that only the tenant whose doorbell is pressed gets a notification. There may be a way with the 433MHz Onvif protocol but this is the first time I've encountered Onvif so I'll have to do a bit of digging.
If an Internet link is needed, the complex will have its own LAN/WLAN for its security cameras so this can tie in there.
And, I've figured out how to rearrange my monitor's video inputs to free the VGA input. I can connect my RPi using an HDMI to VGA cable. This can keep the camera system air-gapped from my WLAN. I can also connect to the RPi via WiFi from any of my PCs but I still need to think through the ramifications of that.
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I remember reading an article on the number of Users that can connect to a IP camera at once.
If I remember correctly the maximum was 8 continued connections so if all 8 users were connected from a home pc say and they left home they would be locked out if checking from their cellphone.
So it would be wise to recommend tenants not leave their connections open if going out.
Also I noticed this camera has the ability for night vision which most do now.
the IR will reflect off glass so you either need the ability to disable IR if glass is going to be in view.
If the camera is in a well lite lobby you may not need the IR anyways.
You also may not need the pan and tilt abilities of this camera so a fixed one may be better for your situation.
you may also wish to see if you can get the proto call for the camera.
having this may allow you to create some added extras for when each door bell is pressed.
I have a Foscam mounted inside my home which auto turns to the door which is opened. (it monitors 3 doors using x10 door window sensors)
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The complex has three 4-unit buildings so 8 connections should be adequate with one camera per building. And, if I cannot find a way to send notifications when doorbells are pressed, there will be little need for remote connections.
There are two narrow glass areas on each side of the entry door but they are to one side of where the camera will be mounted so I doubt they will be an issue.
I don't think pan'n'tilt will be very useful either but I want 1280p and two way audio (critical) and most with those features also have pan'n'tilt and IR. Plus, this one has an excellent price. If you know of a stationery unit with 1280p, two way audio, a way to link to doorbells and a good price, let me know.
While the lobby is well lit, there's a handy light switch that cable salesmen and other bad guys might make use of.
I found an email address for Eweton and requested more complete documentation. If they respond I'll ask for the communication protocol and ask whether the IR can be disabled.
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Two way audio is available on most IP cameras but the pan&tilt models usually have it built in.
Also you may find due to mount location you'll need an external mic and or speaker as these internal ones are not the best.
Most cameras I've looked at have this option.
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No luck so far in finding any details on the 433MHz RF protocol used by the camera. All I can find are vague references to it with motion sensors, door/window switches, etc. but it finally dawned on me that there's a simple, low cost solution to the tenant notification issue. One ESP8266 can monitor the doorbell pushbuttons (we just need an extra set of contacts) and send notifications to the indicated tenant. One 3.3V power supply and one WeMos D1 mini will do. It will require a wireless router but I think that will be available on the security network for the complex.
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/D1-mini-Mini-NodeMcu-4M-bytes-Lua-WIFI-Internet-of-Things-development-board-based-ESP8266/1331105_32529101036.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/D1-mini-Mini-NodeMcu-4M-bytes-Lua-WIFI-Internet-of-Things-development-board-based-ESP8266/1331105_32529101036.html)
I'm not as adept at juggling multiple projects as I once was so I'll probably set this aside while I work on the CM15A2Z mod. I may have to return to it when the manager of the complex comes by to discuss the camera and interfacing it to the doorbells and the security network for the complex.
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I may have to return to it when the manager of the complex comes by to discuss the camera and interfacing it to the doorbells and the security network for the complex.
Just tell him you are a consultant, he won't be back. -:)
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Hello
It has been a while since my last visit but am glad I did because am also looking for something similar for two apartment buildings. There are entry control systems with cameras available but it gets expensive specially in older buildings.
Last year I installed two Foscam F19851 HD cams in one building. I can see them from anywhere on my iPhone so can the manager. Since these cams are not connected to door bells so tenants have no excess. I would appreciate it very much if you could guide me to connect these cams to doorbell buttons.
Two years ago I installed SkyBell on my door. It is great. But not practical for multi units.
Mr. T. To quote you,"I have a Foscam mounted inside my home which auto turns to the door which is opened. (it monitors 3 doors using x10 door window sensors", could you please share this setup with me. This would spare a cam or two.
I have a modem with built in router and a second router. If the iPhone connects to modem router then I can not see any cams. So have to connect to second router. I haven't figured out the reason yet.
Will wait for your reply..
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IPS,
These are also older buildings (about 50 years old). Four 4-unit buildings were built by a young man with a small inheritance. He sold one to pay off debts, then he and his wife raised 10 children on the income (plus his income from other work). He's nearing 90 so they have sold the enterprise to the children's LLC with a son-in-law taking on active management (with one of his son's living onsite). He is modernizing and making improvements (and raising rents). They are adding conduits between buildings which will help, installing security cameras in hallways, parking areas, etc. and they are replacing the 4-gang mailboxes in the lobbies. I believe there will be access to the basement from the mailboxes so adding wiring should not be a problem but I do not yet know how skilled he or his son are with things like this or whether he will want to install a custom system designed and maintained by a 74 year old tenant with major health issues (and who can no longer get out to hardware stores to see what's available). I'm proposing a WiFi camera with two way audio mounted in a recess next to the mailboxes that will allow up to eight P2P connections at the same time. The cameras I'm considering have Android, iOS, Windows, etc. apps for viewing the camera and communicating via the audio link. Also, I've no clue as to the speed of sending a message to a remote phone via the Internet - unless it's immediate it doesn't seem practical for this application. With one hand paralyzed, I have no smartphone with which to experiment although I may get a $65 Fire tablet or a prepaid Tracphone to experiment. I have no need for messages, email or audio since I'm rarely out. But, when I hear the doorbell, I'd like to be able to view the camera before going to the door.
However, Tuicemen and others here can probably pick this up and run with it. There's a free version of ZBasic for the ESP8266 and Tuicemen is already experimenting with the ESP8266 in another application plus he's far more experienced with IP cameras than am I. The WeMos D1 mini has a scripting language (LUA) preloaded and has 12 11 interrupt driven digital inputs so it should, in principle, be a rather simple and straightforward application - sense the pushing of a doorbell (need extra contacts on the pushbuttons) and send a message to the appropriate tenants phone (or PC, in my case). I haven't looked but there's likely to be someone (or multiple someones) who has (have) documented similar uses of the ESP8266 online. There is also an Arduino variant for the ESP8266 as well as a GCC compiler.
Both the camera I'm considering and the WeMos modules will come by slow boat from China so it's likely to be 4-6 weeks before I can have hardware to play with. Plus, I'll likely be busy with a brain transplant in the meantime.
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/cm15a2z.html (https://www.laser.com/dhouston/cm15a2z.html)
EDIT: As I expected there are numerous online documentations of similar applications. Here's one that's close to what we need.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/send-text-message-using-esp8266-when-home-alarm-goes-off/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/send-text-message-using-esp8266-when-home-alarm-goes-off/)
There's another Arduino/ESP8266 related application for sending email.
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=286905.15 (http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=286905.15)
And there are many other, similar applications.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=esp8266+send+message+to+smartphone&pc=MOZI&first=15&FORM=PORE (https://www.bing.com/search?q=esp8266+send+message+to+smartphone&pc=MOZI&first=15&FORM=PORE)
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As far as giving tenants access to the video and audio, you just need a camera with two way audio that allows P2P connections (and an app for smartphones, etc.). Usually, it will have an ID/Password on the bottom. Routers will usually have the same info on the bottom. Also, if there's no desire/need or ability to make remote connections, there's no need for the doorbell link. When home, tenants can open the app on their device when they hear the doorbell. I suspect my apartment manager will opt for this low maintenance option. The camera I'm considering allows 8 such connections at any one time which should be sufficient for a 4-unit building. It also allows control of Pan/Tilt from the connected device.
http://www.amazon.com/EWETON-1280x960P-Wireless-Detection-Alarm-W9A/dp/B01CP288FE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_5&smid=A2RQYR2E3DXPER (http://www.amazon.com/EWETON-1280x960P-Wireless-Detection-Alarm-W9A/dp/B01CP288FE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_5&smid=A2RQYR2E3DXPER)
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Mr. T. To quote you,"I have a Foscam mounted inside my home which auto turns to the door which is opened. (it monitors 3 doors using x10 door window sensors", could you please share this setup with me. This would spare a cam or two.
Since your using the HD foscams the commands needed are different form what I'm using as mine is the mjpeg model.
Foscam does offer a SDK API for these cameras however they don't make it easy to get though they say it is free.
Basicaly you setup the presets on the camera.
all you need to do is send a web request to your camera similar to this: http:// "camera IP:port"&Usr="Your username"&password="yourPassword" & command
Note: the syntax isn't exact
I was using AHP to see the security sensors then sending the request to PCC on a open status, however I've since added X10 security sensor (limited) support to PCC so I've cut out the need for AHP.
There is a post on my forum about this (http://tuicemen.com/forum/index.php?topic=589.0) but it isn't for the HD models which I may add at a later date if I can jump threw all the hoops Foscam wants for the SDK.
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As far as giving tenants access to the video and audio, you just need a camera with two way audio that allows P2P connections (and an app for smartphones, etc.). Usually, it will have an ID/Password on the bottom. Routers will usually have the same info on the bottom.
Most newer cameras have this option and some like the X10Airsights have a simple barcode which you scan with your phone so the connection setup is very simple.
Dave if you can't find any command info, SDK, or API for your camera you could try the free Foscam APIs as many IP cameras (especially those from China) use the same commands.
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Dave if you can't find any command info, SDK, or API for your camera you could try the free Foscam APIs as many IP cameras (especially those from China) use the same commands.
The $55 camera I'm considering (link in earlier posts) has "Quick WiFi Setup By QR Code Scan via iPhone or Android using the App Yoosee(No Fee). Seamlessly Stream Video and Two Way Audio Directly to Your Smartphone, Tablet, Apple Mac or Windows PC. Support 8 Phone Viewers and 8 433MHZ Protocol Alarm Devices at the same time."
As noted earlier I cannot find any documentation for the "433MHZ Protocol Alarm Devices" and have security qualms about connecting to anything on my network. I'd prefer to airgap my WLAN. I'll likely go with an inexpensive phone or tablet that does not connect to my network and keep it in my pocket. That will let me see who is at the door. If it's Jessica Alba or Salma Hayek, I'll try to hurry to the door - if not, I'll not. ;D
If the Yoosee app will run on my RPi-3, I can now connect it to my main PC monitor for video. That way it's not on my network.
For apartment owners/managers, this could be of interest if docs can be sourced. "IP Camera Supports 433MHZ GFSK Frequency Protocol, Which Could be Used Together with Almost All Wireless Sensor Alarm System with Same Frequency(433M or 315M), like Magnetic Door/Window Sensor Alarm, Smoke Detector Alarm, Human PIR Alarm, etc. Snapshots Will Be Sent via Email When the Alarm System Triggered."
The EWETON camera also has a wired ethernet port so it may not even need a separate router for an Internet link. Instead, it can tie into the security camera system planned for all three buildings.
So far, I've not had any answers to my emails to the vendor.
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The $40 D-Link does not have Pan/Tilt and only has one way audio. It has
"Motion sensing technology sends you automatic push alert notifications whenever movement is detected. View, control and pinch to zoom up to 4x using the free mydlink Lite app available for iOS, Android devices and Windows Phones."
It will likely be a better fit here as it should be low maintenance.
http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DCS-934L-Night-Wi-Fi-Camera/dp/B00SIM78R0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00 (http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DCS-934L-Night-Wi-Fi-Camera/dp/B00SIM78R0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00)
EDIT: Unfortunately, the box indicates it requires Java (notoriously insecure) so it's going back to Amazon unopened.
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Dhouston
Thanks for the detailed reply. I find it very interesting because I learned lot more by learning about other things referred to in your response. Terms that are commonly used but never really knew. So I did research and learned, for the moment any way, how long they'll remain will depend on usage of terms.
I'll will let you know what system I'll install.
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IPS,
I, too, learn by searching/finding links like those I posted and by bouncing ideas off others in the forum. We'll be interested in your progress.
Here, I'll probably defer to the manager's choice for a camera to be mounted near the mailbox/doorbell combos in each lobby. If it is high resolution, supports P2P (peer to peer) and, preferably, has two way audio it will meet my needs. Pan/Tilt is probably not needed (depending on camera location). Remote connections will require a doorbell link and an Internet link (which can be wired or WiFi) but management needs to consider security implications - hackers getting at tenant's personal data could be a serious problem - and allowing remote access might be complicated when a tenant moves out since P2P ID/Passwords are permanent. Personally, I don't see a need for remote connections but then I'm at home 99.9% of the time.
If my head hasn't fallen off by then I'll post on the final setup here as well.