X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bkenobi on April 16, 2016, 01:26:44 PM
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I have 4' fluorescent tubes all over my house and shop. As everyone knows, the older tubes aren't available any more (at least they aren't being produced). I have a stash of 2' and 4' bulbs that should last quite a few years, but I have a couple ballasts in my kitchen and laundry room that sometimes don't turn on or only partially turn on. I'm curious if anyone could make a recommendation for sourcing replacements?
The on in the kitchen has finally stopped working altogether so I pulled it out to take it to a few local stores. I doubt they will have anything, so I'm curious if anyone here could post a link or two. This one is a Universal Therm-O-Matic Rapid Start Ballast (413-C-TC-P) rated at 0.65A. It runs a single 4' T12 bulb. I have 6 in my kitchen (I haven't pulled the others, so they could be different ballasts), so I'd rather replace it with a T12 ballast so I can use my stash up at least. I don't think mixing/matching would look good even though there is a diffuser sheet blocking direct view of the lights.
I know there was mention of electric vs magnetic ballasts, but I don't know if that matters. Currently I have no issue with noise related to any fluorescent fixtures and I'd like to keep it that way.
EDIT: If there were a way to test this and possibly fix it, I'd be ok with that as well. I was under the impression that these were pretty much a replace when failed type of component.
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I did a web search. There are a few hits for your Universal 413-C-TC-P.
One of the sites had a cross reference chart to others it was comparable to.
I am not an expert on the older magnetic ballasts. I believe they only did one or two particular bulbs.
The electronic ones usually have many bulb sizes they can do.
I switched some of mine to LED replacements and they had electronic ballasts. That I removed. As my LED bulbs are driven by 120VAC directly.
The Keystone KTEB-132-1-TP-EMI could do one of the following:
F32T8, F25T8, F17T8, F30T12, F40T12, F34T12..
I did not check them for X10 noise or Signal Sucking. I suspect if anything. They may signal suck as they where rated for low EMI.
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So should I be looking for electric or magnetic ballast? And what would I be seeing on the part number/spec sheet that would indicate one or the other? I don't want to create a new problem while simply trying to fix this one. I am considering purchasing a couple extras just to make sure I have a spare or two in case one of my others fails.
The alternative is to use on of the 4' T12 ballasts that is currently installed in a new (not installed) unit designed to run 2 bulbs. I have a couple extras that haven't been installed yet (no plans to use them, just as spares). Since they have 2 bulb connectors, would that be an issue?
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I'm surprised to hear fluorescent tubes are hard to find. They were always the most efficient - at least until LEDs became so widespread. I guess the manufacturers would prefer to sell tubular LEDs for the same reason that they earlier pushed CFLs while lobbying to ban incandescents. $$$$
I have old style fluorescents in the bathroom & kitchen and both have needed ballasts in the past year or two.
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The older magnetic ballasts are getting harder to find. They also where designed for each setup. So I doubt the two tube ballast would work in your single tube setup. The two tube ballast should have information on it. Showing what bulb size and how many it can be used with. You may want to look at one for information.
I have no idea on this vendor.
They claim to still have 12 of the 413-C-TC-P ballasts in their Clearance Corner.
Sale price of $14.00.
http://www.bulbtown.com/Universal_Magnetek_413_C_TC_P_Ballast_p/413-c-tc-p.htm
Most of the ballasts I saw in my search where marked Electronic or Magnetic.
You would want one for a single tube F40T12, 120 volt Rapid Start fixture.
I believe florescent tubes are still fairly easy to find. They have a different construction to make them more Ecologically Friendly.
I know my GE ones have less mercury in them and still function OK for me.
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...... I have a couple ballasts in my kitchen and laundry room that sometimes don't turn on or only partially turn on. I'm curious if anyone could make a recommendation for sourcing replacements?
The older magnetic ballasts are getting harder to find.............
Remove the ballast altogether and rewire the lamps to take the LED replacements. Read here (http://greenlightdepot.com/products/4ft-t8-led-tube-light?variant=14462080068&gclid=CjwKEAjwxce4BRDE2dG4ueLArHMSJADStCqMH5cnZi5AtsRqMiQXoIkDlpPTi-l-58iENnbUdTwMyRoC6ljw_wcB)
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Remove the ballast altogether and rewire the lamps to take the LED replacements. Read here (http://greenlightdepot.com/products/4ft-t8-led-tube-light?variant=14462080068&gclid=CjwKEAjwxce4BRDE2dG4ueLArHMSJADStCqMH5cnZi5AtsRqMiQXoIkDlpPTi-l-58iENnbUdTwMyRoC6ljw_wcB)
I may do that in the future, but the LED replacements are far more expensive an investement and since I don't put that many hours on the bulbs it would take years to break even. In addition, I have a supply of replacement bulbs that I want to use prior to even considering a transition.
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It looks like the ballasts are not available anymore at bulbtown.com. I found a couple other sources for a bit more, but none have the connector installed on the end. The connectors on my current ballast don't appear to be intended to be reused, so I'm curious if I should be sourcing the connector as well? Without any other knowledge, I'd assume I just clip the wires and wire nut the new ballast to the old connectors.
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The bulbtown sales page says it has 12.
As you found out. Try and add one or more to the order and you get an out of stock message.
Seems their sales page does not have a accurate count tied to the actual inventory available.
Glad you did find some.
When I converted mine to LED direct AC driven tubes. I cut the old wires a few inches from the sockets and used inline crimps to connect the wires.
Note there are two types of Tombstones {what the sockets are frequently referred to}. One type called Shunt Style has both contacts shorted together inside the socket. I believe that is for Instant Start type ballasts. They also come in different heights and mounting method. Though many are more universal. I bought a few tombstones with my LED bulbs. As a precaution but didn't need them them. Mine had two wire grips for solid #18 wires most present ballasts use for each contact. So if I needed a shunt type. A small jumper between the contacts would have worked.
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I stopped by my local hardware (non-box) store yesterday and was surprised that they had a decent selection of ballasts. I picked on up but may return it. It's designed for 2 lights but they claimed it would work with 1. It's also a different size though it looks like there's a knockout that would make it fit. But, it's about 2x the price of the ones I've seen online. I'll check the box store on the way home as they generally bring the cost down close to online and I can take it home with me to know it works.
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Some may work with one tube.
The connection sheet should show all ways to connect it and what size bulbs it will work with.
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Turns out HD has a few options in store for T12 still. They don't show anything online which is why I never checked the shelves. B:(
The one they stock is the Philips AmbiStar RELB-2S40-N rapid start electronic ballast. I contacted tech support and they sent me a 1-bulb wiring diagram so I can get it up and running. The only question will be whether it causes noise when operating. I guess I'll have to get my XTBM out and see what the noise level is with/without it turned on before I put everything back together.
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Also see if the XTBM shows a signal sucker action. As it would probably has an internal AC Input filter to keeps its electronics noise off of the power lines.
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Bad news. Although the new ballast works great functionally, it doesn't play nice with X10. I didn't notice any issues with any commands not working when I fired some commands via RF, I could not see the XTB-IIR signal on the XTBM when the light was on. With it off, I saw a strong signal. I removed the hot from the new ballast and tested again and the light on/off made no difference. So, it appears that these Philips ballasts don't work well.
I have several fixtures that are still boxed that use a BenchLite ballast model number RL-240-1-TP (rapid start, class P, Type 1 outdoor). I tested with the XTBM on my bench which has one of these but apparently something else was already killing the signal at my bench as I saw 0.0 under both on/off conditions. I may just order the original so I know it will work assuming I can source one. Too bad since HD carries these Philips ballasts for $18 in store.
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The F40T12 fixtures I converted to LED. Had the RL-140-TP ballasts in them.
I don't remember them effecting X10 but never did any tests for problems.
Specifications sheet attached for the RL-140-TP.
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I wish I had seen this last night. I placed an order for 2 direct replacements since I didn't know what else to look at. If I knew this one was available on ebay at a better price/unit shipped for one, I'd have gone that way. As it is, it's probably more complicated to cancel so I'll just stay with what I've committed to. It's good reference though!
For anyone looking, there's a bunch of those on ebay for ~$11 shipped in new condition.
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I got the new old stock ballasts the other day and installed one per the wiring diagram (same as the old one). When I turned on the lights, I get nothing. I pulled the first and hooked up the second and I still get nothing. Is it possible that I both could have failed due to age? I didn't see anything on the contact wires so I believe they are new and unused meaning I don't think someone would have damaged them and sold them.
I pulled the cover off a second working fixture and found a different ballast type, so I suspect when the previous owner had one fail, he simply replaced the whole fixture. I could probably source that ballast and try to get a refund on these two.
Any thoughts?
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Using a meter. Verify that the filament inside each end of the the tube are there and not open.
I believe the ballast uses the filament to disable the ballast if it is open. Like there is no tube in the socket.
Also I saw in the instructions. The fixture needs a ground. I believe that helps the tube to start.
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The fixture is grounded but I don't see how the ballast is connected to that ground unless it can maintain ground through the painted housing surface somehow. I pulled a working bulb from the second working fixture to test the non-working fixture so the bulb is known working (reinstalling in the working fixture results in light).
I assume a ballast is a ballast (at least assuming they are of the same type) so I assume testing one vs another should give exactly the same results when looking at voltages and whatnot. With the new ballast installed I tested it against a working one.
Non-contact tester
1) Black (hot) wire: both are hot
2) White (neutral) wire: both are NOT hot
3) red wire (x2, ballast to one tube end): both hot, though good ballast beeps slower for some reason
4) blue/white (ballast to other tube end): good is NOT hot, new is hot
The concerning thing is that the white wire from the ballast that connects to one end of the tube is also connected to neutral at the tombstone. Is that right to connect hot to neutral without a load?!
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Here's a couple pictures that I stole that will help. The first is an untouched ballast in case someone has a suggestion. The second is what I've found with my non-contact tester.
EDIT: updated second image for correctness and clarity.
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The replacement has two Blue Wires.
What is its part number?
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try this if you have two blue wires:
I am ASSUMING that its a single tube replacement ballast.
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One white one blue and the wiring diagram is the same as I posted on the label. The Philips ballast was word like you suggested with 2 yellow leads that went nowhere.
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In the replacement diagram.
White Neutral is not hot as expected. The Blue and White from the ballast should not be hot.
With the White and Blue from the ballast showing Hot.
Check the connections in the tombstone. Both whites should be the same. If the physical connection in the tombstone is properly done.
I suspect a bad or missing connection between the White from the incoming power circuit, tombstone contacts and the White from the ballast.
The Blue from the ballast is probably hot due to the lack of Neutral from the missing White connections.
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When I wired up the Philips ballast, it had a separate wire for neutral rather than sharing the tombstone. I will check the continuity through the tombstone to verify, but that's how it worked before. I suppose one possibility is that the connection in the tombstone itself failed rather than the old ballast. I wonder if there's a way to test a ballast on the bench to verify it's working as expected. My guess is that these are simple enough that the bench test would be a fixture which means I can test it just as easily installed.
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I am now 100% confused.
Your earlier replacement diagram is not what the Phillips wanted and how you wired it?
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Nope. Philips has a different wiring diagram. See attached. They are designed for 2 bulbs but sent me a 1-bulb schematic. Essentially they hook the 2 blue wires to one end, 2 red to the other, white to neutral, and black to hot. The 2 yellow were taped off as they don't get used for 1-bulb operation.
The original (dead) ballast and the new replacements only have 1 blue wire and 1 white. They indicate that I hook the red to one end and the blue and white to other. The tombstone with the blue/white has a white for neutral (not used with the Philips ballast).
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Thanks for the diagram.
There where so many different ones posted.
Ignore my trying moving the white as your latest diagram does not show it that way.
I would verify that the filaments in the tube ends are OK and making contact in the tombstones.
Some electronic ballasts also need to be grounded to the fixture and have the tube with in a distance of the fixture. I believe mine wanted the tube 1" or less from the metal
If you do get it working. See if it effects your X10 communications as it is an Electronic Ballast not the original Magnetic one you are replacing.
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I pulled the fixture apart again and took a good look at all the connections. I checked continuity between everything that should be connected and compared to the second fixture. It looks like the issue may actually be with the neutral to white wire connection. The back of the tombstone is popped out and the neutral connector is not lined up properly. I think if I can find a way to force it back into place I can verify the fix and then source some replacements. If that's the case I guess I have 3 spare ballasts them!
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Oh, and I just noticed this morning that the two tombstones are different. It looks like at least one may have come from another source at some point. I'm just going to replace them and hope for the best.
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Simple fixes always become projects. I had my wife go to the local electrical store and pick up the correct tombstones for these fixtures. As it turns out, while they fit, they are missing a connection to neutral. I'm not sure whether this is an issue or not. The original lamp holders have the 2 spring loaded contacts that attach to the blue/white or red wires. On the blue/white side, there is a second white wire that connects to neutral when the bulb is installed (contact pushes out and connects to second white wire). This is fine and all, but the new tombstones do not have this. Is there any reason I can't just connect the white wire from the ballast to both the white lamp holder wire AND neutral? When the bulb is installed, this is functionally identical. When the bulb is not present, the ballast would think that it is present and be hot presumably. I don't plan on having bulbs pulled from the ballast, so I don't see any difference.
Here's the new lamp holder:
https://www.platt.com/platt-electric-supply/Lampholders-Fluorescent-Linear-Medium-Bi-Pin/Leviton/13357-N/product.aspx?zpid=283663
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So you are now trying to use the older style ballasts. The new electronic one you gave the connection diagram for. Does not use the Neutral into the tombstone.
The tombstone has two wire clamps for each of its internal contact. So you can push two wires into each contact. If you have to have three whites together. Then you should be able to wire nut or splice them all together.
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Yes I am going back to the original ballast. If I look at the original wiring, the neutral and white are tied together when the bulb is installed. Worth the bulb removed the neutral is not connected. As a result, the ballast is not powered when the bulb is pulled. I'd I connect both whites to neutral then the ballast is always hot bulb or no bulb. Is that an issue?
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Well this is frustrating. I replaced the ballast with identical part number, both connectors, and a new(ish) bulb. The only change is that the ballast is now connected to neutral instead of that other connector (functionally identical with bulb installed). The light does not come on. If I rotate the bulb with the switch on, the light comes on. No idea now since it's basically a new fixture.
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Maybe a bad contact in the tombstone.
If you have the tube installed in its normal locked in position. If you gently rub the tube from end to end with your hand. Does it then light?
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I installed new lamp holders/tombstones so they should be good. I can light the bulb by rotating it in the socket but haven't tried ribbing it. I have a fixture over my workbench that sometimes requires touching the bulb to get it to start.
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If you gently rub the tube from end to end with your hand. Does it then light?
I have never heard of this. Are you building a static charge to "fire" the bulb? -:)
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Not sure if it was static or adding some extra coupling to the fixtures ground plane.
I know in ancient years when I worked for Pratt and Whitney. Monday when they turned on the fluorescent lights. One of the electricians use to have a long pole with a wire brush on it and connected to the metal grounded columns by a long wire. Use to rub the ones that didn't light to fire them. ;D
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I got everything back installed and working. In order to get it working, I had to play with the ground (sanding all connections). It still didn't work initially, I had to use BrianH's special procedure. After turning the lights on/off and touching the bulb a few times, it seems to function correctly every time. Strange but my wife seems happy that I don't have all the tools in the kitchen so whatever. :'
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I had a few fixtures in the cellar. During the summer when it was humid. I sometimes had to touch the tubes to get them to light.
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Not sure if it was static or adding some extra coupling to the fixtures ground plane.
Yeah, enhancing the ground makes more sense. Old geezer brain was not warmed up yet (6L6's)
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I have seen new modern high end audio equipment using 6L6's and other low level amp tubes.
Some audio purist's feel that tube equipment sounds more clearer.
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Hybrid amp. Better power handling. Better sound. More headspace. Best amp I ever owned.
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Hybrid amp. Better power handling. Better sound. More headspace. Best amp I ever owned.
I'd challenge any tube amp to beat the class AB transistor amp I designed and built over 40 years ago. It has 4-channels, with each capable of 200W RMS into 4 ohms, and a power supply capable of 1KW peak, 500W sustained. It has protection against any overload causing secondary breakdown in the output transistors. You could short the output at full blast, and it just folded back until the overload was removed. I'm still using it today.
I built a single channel to use as a servo amp and 400Hz power supply back at the lab.
Jeff
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I'm drooling. These days, I see guys pushing to 2 ohms. Says it hits harder. I'm a lover, not a hitter. Rich sound is my priority, bass is only part of the equation. Total harmonic distortion is important to me.
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Off topic but anyone remember the old Carver "cube" amps of the 1970s?
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I have a 2 tube fixture hanging from floor joists in my basement that I was planning on shifting over my workbench this evening. The bulbs usually require the touch lamp treatment to illuminate, so I was also going to replace the tombstones. When I pulled the metal chain from off the nail and put it in the new location, I noticed some arcing. The chain was in slight contact with some HVAC ducting so figured maybe dissipating off static I built up or whatnot. I adjusted things and the arcing happened again and but this time.
Hmmm, strange. Perhaps the ground was bad. I pulled it down and unplugged it. The previous owner used a light socket splitter plus duplex adapter to plug a non-grounded fluorescent fixture in.
So, my question is, can I just swap the pigtail for a grounded one. The wiring diagram doesn't show a ground so is it required? I may just dump it and get a new one if I can't confirm a safe setup.
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I have see some of the magnetic type ballasts labels marked should be grounded. Even if it was not shown in the wiring diagram.
All the later electronic ballasts I have are clearly marked must be grounded or unwanted events may happen.
The swiping the tubes to get them to light Could be you providing a capacitive ground.
You should be able to ground the lights if you care to or use this as a excuse to get new ones.
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http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryactivities/a/Fluorescent-Light-Science-Experiments.htm (http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryactivities/a/Fluorescent-Light-Science-Experiments.htm)
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I have a new fixture in a box I could install. I have some that were kept as backups when my dad got rid of his unused pallet (failed shop lighting project). If I keep the current fixture, I am primarily concerned that a ground should be for backup safety and if it's arcing/sparking/shocking, it must have a fault. If so, adding a ground would just electrify the ground network which seems like a bad thing.
The ballast is labelled class P type 1 and is rapid start. It looks pretty old, so I'm assuming it's magnetic start. The diagram does not show ground. I tested continuity this morning and found no connection between any of the contacts and the case so I assume there is no short in the wiring (worn insulation). I assume also that there is no permanent failure within the ballast since continuity was not present. To me (ME not EE) this means that if there is power on the chassis when energized, something inside the ballast must be faulty especially since it requires a hand wave to light. If that seems like reasonable logic, I guess the choices are installing a new ballast or a new fixture.
I went through this earlier this year with a different fixture and found that the ballasts at the box stores created X10 problems. I have some fixtures like my spare installed in the garage and other than creating issues on that run, they do not affect other X10. In that case, the issue was the tombstone, so I returned the ballasts.
I am leaning towards just installing a new fixture or looking at the LED unit at Costco. Power usage will never pay for the fixture (it's not used that much), so this is really a question of installing something that isn't a safety issue, provides sufficient light where needed, and not breaking my X10 stuff.
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I believe the spark you are seeing is just a static buildup between the tube running at a high voltage from the ballast and the metal fixture frame. Grounding it should not cause a problem and maybe even make it start more reliably.
Just test the LED fixtures if you go that route. They may possible cause X10 issues. depending on their drivers design.
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If it was just a spark, I wouldn't have said it bit me. This was definitely a continuous shock though it did not pop a breaker. I don't know if I should be able to measure a voltage from the contacts to the chassis on a functioning unit, but I definitely see 120vac on some of the contacts to the frame. It seems to me, if ground was not needed (ballast was not grounded), there should be no connectivity and no power should flow. Again, I'm not an EE and don't know how the ballast is designed or should function other than the light should turn on when powered.
I stopped by my local hardware store to ask an electrician about it. They said it sounded like a faulty ballast and it would be cost prohibitive to fix. He pointed me to a stack of LED shop lights that were supposed to be $29. I would have bought it but it rang up as $49. A new ballast is ~$10-15 as I recall. I'll check Costco and the box stores for LED fixtures and give them a try.
BTW, do the LED fixtures require a ground? If not, I could just plug it in to the duplex as configured now. If not, I'd have to swap the fixture to one with a grounded plug in it.
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From your description. I does sound like the best thing to do is replace the fixture.
I would expect all present day electrical devices to show a safety ground if hard wired or have a three prong electrical cord on it. I can't say if an LED fixture would work without the ground connected. Probably would just not having a safety ground to meet present electrical specifications.
I use some replacement LED tubes in my original fixtures. The ones I used had the ballasts cut out and 120 VAC was wired directly to the LED replacement tubes tombstones. I don't believe the instructions mandated a ground but may have recommended it for safety. The tombstones could not have both pins internally tied together as Line went to one pin and Neutral went to the other pin on the same end. The opposite end of the tube had no connections. I have seen other brand LED tubes wire Line on one end and Neutral on the other end. Some are also made to be directly driven by the ballast and need no rewiring.
I had one fixture where the replacement tubes where not a good fit. They had tombstones pointing 45 degrees from vertical.
Light shined out the sides as the LED tubes do not emit light all 360 degrees like a fluorescent tube does.
I found they where brighter than the old fluorescent tubes where. Since the light was in only one direction even though their Lumen ratings where lower then the old florescent tubes.
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So are the complete LED fixtures or gutting and installing an LED bulb better/cheaper/less problematic for X10? The fixture isn't pristine but it's a basement workbench so it doesn't get seen anyway. Light, safety, X10, and to some degree cost are more important factors than looks or energy savings.
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So are the complete LED fixtures or gutting and installing an LED bulb better/cheaper/less problematic for X10? The fixture isn't pristine but it's a basement workbench so it doesn't get seen anyway. Light, safety, X10, and to some degree cost are more important factors than looks or energy savings.
I can't give you exact information.
It would depend on the exact replacement LED tube if retrofitting an old fixture. Or the electronics in a totally new replacement fixture.
I did test my Naturled 5775 replacement tubes. They didn't make any noise on my XTBM or show any signal sucking when connected to the outlet where the XTBM was signal testing.
They do not have the same Lumens output as an florescent tube. But the output is 120 degrees beam width over the old fluorescent tubes 360 degree beam width. So in the light field they are brighter to me than the older ones they replaced.
Here is some information on the LED tubes I used. The need for non-shunted tombstones is pointed out.
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This is pure speculation but, for the past 6 years I've lived in a 3-room apartment in 4-unit building that is about 50-60 years old. All of the original wiring lacked a ground wire but over the years grounded outlets have been added for window AC units and for kitchen appliances. The bathroom has a recessed medicine cabinet with integral fluorescent tubes beside the mirror and an ungrounded outlet. The metal cabinet itself was grounded. When the ballast failed a couple of years ago, a new one would not work until it was grounded (to the metal cabinet). From this, I surmise that older ballasts were ungrounded but newer ones need a ground.
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So are the complete LED fixtures or gutting and installing an LED bulb better/cheaper/less problematic for X10?
It's the switching power supplies used by the LEDs that cause problems (noise or signal sucking) so it's impossible to generalize - some are OK for X10 but you need to know whether any X10 users use the exact make/model without issues.
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It's the switching power supplies used by the LEDs that cause problems (noise or signal sucking) so it's impossible to generalize - some are OK for X10 but you need to know whether any X10 users use the exact make/model without issues.
Which makes it difficult to pick something in a timely fashion without over buying multiple items hopefully from a site with free shipping and good returns. I forgot the difference in types of tombstones. I'll have to verify what type mine are.
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I removed and then reinstalled the ballast from the fixture thinking perhpas there was something obvious going on with it (nope). When I plugged it back in for testing, it seemed to work correctly but I didn't trust it would stay that way since I couldn't determine the initial fault. When I had it apart, I found that it used the same ballast that I had in my spare fixtures. I thought about just swapping in the ballast, but decided the new fixtures looked cleaner. The interesting thing is that this ballast (both new and old) have markings stating grounding is required. I wonder if not grounding over however many years it was in service may have caused an issue. Either way, the new one is up and causes no X10 issues.
I almost bought a new fixture at Costco since they were only $30 including the LED bulbs. If I didn't have the fixtures and bulbs already, going LED would have been close to a wash since the fixture is $15 and a pair of bulbs is $10 these days.
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Glad you have a working fixture now.
Difficult to say if running with no ground effected the ballast. May have contributed to its failing.
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The interesting thing is that this ballast (both new and old) have markings stating grounding is required.
Grounding might be a safety issue to prevent a hazard if a hot lead should contact the metal case. Or an electronic ballast could have capacitors from both AC input lines to ground to meet the FCC spec on conducted radiation. That could cause the ground lead and a metal case to float at 60VAC if it is not grounded.
Jeff
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I tested three Keystone KTEB-132-1-TP-EM electronic ballasts. I had removed from new fixtures I had converted to LED Tubes.
My meters capacitor test didn't find any capacitors or it was so small it didn't go much above the resting offset {9.3 nF}, from Line or Neutral to the case ground. All three did have about a .22uF reading from Line to Neutral.
Also where labeled passes FCC part 18 must be grounded. I would guess the metal case of the ballast needed to be grounded.