X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: HA Dave on August 08, 2017, 10:04:05 PM
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According to this Genie Web Site ad (http://www.geniecompany.com/garage-door-openers/accessories/led-light-bulb.aspx?utm_source=ThriveHive&utm_medium=EXFB&utm_campaign=ledlightbulbs).... some LED and CFL mess the garage door RF signal.
Of course they have a solution their own Radio Frequency friendly LED bulbs (http://www.geniecompany.com/garage-door-openers/accessories/led-light-bulb.aspx?utm_source=ThriveHive&utm_medium=EXFB&utm_campaign=ledlightbulbs)
Actual link: http://www.geniecompany.com/garage-door-openers/accessories/led-light-bulb.aspx?utm_source=ThriveHive&utm_medium=EXFB&utm_campaign=ledlightbulbs
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Thank you for the information.
I have seen this subject mentioned from time to time.
They suspiciously look like OEM from Feit.
10 Watt, 60 watt equivalent, color temperature 3000K.
I have had a few over the years. Interfere with FM radios. I am not close to any stations and have an external antenna on two of them.
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How can the RF signal from an LED bulb be sufficient to interfere with anything more than an inch or two away? Isn't that why we have the FCC certification? The FCC tests all these devices to see if they meet RF transmission requirements. If a device emits high levels of RF and that's not what it was designed to do, it would never get certified.
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I imagine that there might only be a problem if the suspect LED or CFL were installed in the lamp socket at the garage door opener. There, the receiver can be a few inches away.
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How can the RF signal from an LED bulb be sufficient to interfere with anything more than an inch or two away? Isn't that why we have the FCC certification? The FCC tests all these devices to see if they meet RF transmission requirements. If a device emits high levels of RF and that's not what it was designed to do, it would never get certified.
I say they where FCC certified for emissions from the box and marking on the bulb.
They where trashed before I go my low end spectrum analyzer. So I can't say exactly what they where.
I do know my LED boxes have the standard warning about interference the standard move further apart or rotate antenna.
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How can the RF signal from an LED bulb be sufficient to interfere with anything more than an inch or two away?
Yeah, I agree. Although if the bulb had a switching supply running around 100kHz I could understand having some third harmonics generated. But as Alan V stated I could only see a problem if the bulb is in the garage door opener. I will have to look at some of my bulbs for FCC markings. I did not know they had to meet any FCC specs.
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My latest LED bulbs don't have an FCC ID. They do have UL, ETL, RoHS marks and recycling data.
Some of my earlier ones do have an FCC mark on them. As do the CFL's.
I also think it is the bulbs closeness to the remote receiver being the issue.
The FCC standards are at a specified distance. It is possible ones passing the standard being that close to a receiver. Could cause interference depending on its design.
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Small, inexpensive super-regenerative RF receivers (like previously used in the TM751) are easily affected by almost any RF signal. Even the 120kHz X10 PLC signal radiated from household wiring would interfere with TM751 transceivers. (Search for X10 endless dim syndrome.)
Devices containing super-regenerative RF receivers require testing by an FCC approved lab and carry an FCC ID. Beginning 10-15 years back, super-heterodyne receivers qualify for self testing (which likely means no testing in practice).
Garage door openers using super-regenerative RF receivers are the likely source of this problem.
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My garage door opener is very old so it may not apply. The bulb burned out at some point, so I tried to install a CFL thinking "I got them and they don't burn out, so this should be perfect". Well, they are not compatible as the base can't screw down far enough. The current crop of LED bulbs have a standard A type base vs the CFL that used to have the massive hump at the top of the threads.
As a side note, I also found that installing a larger bulb provided more light, but caused other issues.
1) the bulb melted the plastic on the opener
2) the bulb burned a hole in the threaded mount (probably due to larger than intended current and the vibration of the bulb during operation)
FWIW, I don't recall intentionally installing a larger bulb (100W) but when I had flickering issues I found that it was only supposed to be 75W max.
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^^ My opener is about 17 or 18 years old. I tapped into the provided outlets and ran wire to 6 lamp bases (3 from each side, opener had two bulb sockets), then used a 13W CFL in each of the 6 sockets. Gives me light all over the garage with very little load and no RF issues.
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I use the Phillips flat led bulbs in my 10 year old opener and it works fine.
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If I replace the garage door opener, I'm not going to install a traditional style chain/screw drive. I'm going to install a jack shaft driven unit that resides next to the door itself. This will require installing a remote light (probably in the current opener's location). I've always hated my opener (needs adjusting, jerks the chain, noisy) and just learned that there's another option. If bulbs interfere with the opener, a jack shaft unit will not have any issues since the light is remote from it.
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If I replace the garage door opener.........
My old Liftmaster failed a few months back. I replaced it with a Chamberlain with the Wifi connection and app. I added a light module too. Any additional cost... was minimal. It talks with my other HA devices too. It's awesome.
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I have Cree LED bulbs in both my Craftsman garage door openers - 2 bulbs in each opener. They definitely interfere with the opener remote. Assuming the lights are off and I'm just arriving home, my remote will work from 100' away. If the lights are on and I try to close the door, I can be standing at the opener and it won't work.
Interestingly, the keypad remotes that are mounted on the garage door frame must be significantly more powerful as they always work regardless of whether the lights are on or not.
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If the Craftsman keypads are wired to the opener with a cable.
They would not use an RF command to control it.
The bulbs would not likely effect it.
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If the Craftsman keypads are wired to the opener with a cable.
They would not use an RF command to control it.
The bulbs would not likely effect it.
These are wireless keypads. I installed them.