X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bkenobi on March 22, 2018, 10:22:11 AM
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I just replaced a couple ugly outdoor light fixtures with new ones that are LED. They have built in dusk-to-dawn, but do not have motion sensing. I was going to use a MS16A and the WS467 that I already have installed, but realized that it probably won't like the LED (no leakage voltage through the bulb). I replaced the light switch with a standard for now, but may order a WS469.
I wanted to see if anyone has a recommendation for a small motion sensor that could be put next to the light (not screwed in like the standard sensors). I used a Heath/Zenith unit for one set of lights and it works fine but these lights have no way to install a motion sensor. I could buy a different light, but it's just one location and I'd rather have them all match.
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I just replaced a couple ugly outdoor light fixtures with new ones that are LED. ............... may order a WS469.
I wanted to see if anyone has a recommendation for a small motion sensor that could be put next to the light ........
I have NO suggestion(s).... but your project(s) do interest me. As I am also currently reimagining a bit of my X10/lighting setup as well.
LED's are such a huge energy saver.... and I've not only become accustomed to the light-color... but have grown to prefer the LED light. I recently changed some of my X10 switches to the X10 "relay" switches so I can use LED's. Unfortunately. my older home is not completely suitable for neutral wired switches.
Most of my lamp modules have been replaced with appliance modules. Or in a couple places I've used the LM15A Socket Rocket Screw-In Lamp Module for LED bulbs.
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I have my garage lights (exterior) set up with a generic motion detector wired inline before the lights. The motion can be purchased at HD or Lowes etc. Instead of mounting to the fixture as intended, I installed on it's own base plate and box in the location I needed.
Similar to this:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-Outdoor-180-Detection-Zone-Motion-Sensor-Retrofit-Kit-Bronze-OMS-1000-120-DDB-M6/205507283
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I find LED a nuicance and mostly a marketting ploy. The energy savings argument is only valid when you use the fixture for a sufficient amount that there is a significant usage. I don't keep lights on constantly, so I've yet to see any difference with these low power solutions.
That's not to say there's no advantage. I have LED's in my camper and they make a HUGE difference! And I see a few other benefits that don't garner any praise but are massive IMO. Either way, they are the future so it's just something to accept (unlike the curly bulbs that were stupid and forced on us a few years ago).
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I'm extremely lazy, and prefer the LEDs due to longevity. Don't like changing light bulbs. (In fact, I don't like any kind of change)
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I suppose I could use a retrofit module in that way. It would be similar to what I have above my garage. I guess I was hoping for a similar option in a more atractive package. There are low profile cieling mount sensors these days for indoor use. It would be nice to do something similar.
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I just replaced a couple ugly outdoor light fixtures with new ones that are LED. They have built in dusk-to-dawn, but do not have motion sensing. .....
I found a solution (this has actually been on my mind for a few days). On Amazon... I found motion sensing floodlight LED BULBS (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071JCPPYS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A1QN15KBISZ8DL&psc=1). So... you can use your matching hardware.... and let the bulb itself detect the motion.
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We want to go with a different look on the house, but these might work well for the shop!
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We want to go with a different look on the house, but these might work well for the shop!
They also have regular looking bulbs with motion sensing. SOME... even work using radar (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078H786H2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=ADW7HUDKG20KN&psc=1)... which works through the glass fixtures.
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I like both of those bulb ideas...I'm also not a huge fan of LED, but the concept is pretty interesting and the price is about the same as a cheap motion detector. Thanks for the links.
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I like both of those bulb ideas...I'm also not a huge fan of LED, but the concept is pretty interesting and the price is about the same as a cheap motion detector. Thanks for the links.
I was happy to research and think about this issue. It captured my interest and imagination. I like and use motion sensor lighting in my man-cave, laundry room, and garage. Places where I might have stuff in my hands... or in the garage with an entry far from the switch.
I jumped on the CFL's (compact florescence Lamps) nearly 20 years ago. Now those bulbs... were worth hating. But... I actually still have two or three CFL's in use around here.
The LED's are cheap to operate... but still can be a comparatively high investment, for the return, on lights seldom used. But they last for so long... any light fixture that requires getting out a real ladder (not a foot stool) deserves a LED bulb. The wife and I have jumped on a couple "good deals" on LED's.... and I really have learned to appreciate their light and... how little electric they eat. And now with the WiFi LED bulbs... Home Automation enthusiast can automate and convert to LED at around $10 a pop... and it still operates for cheap.
I converted my Home Theater to LED... and then... had to also replace the switches to the relay type. Other switches in my older home have a split live wire... making the relay switches unusable. But... I've managed to convert most of my most-used lights to LED. I "think" there is an actual monthly dollar saving. But... I am not going to do the math... because it would be really frustrating if I was wrong. :)
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FWIW
Since we are on a LED trip here, one of the local Dollar Tree stores has 100W equivalent Sunbeam LEDs. I think they were rated 1500 or 1600 lumens. These bulbs are considerably heavier than the 60W version from the additional heat sinking. I don't see how Dollar Tree can have any profit in there, so I'm going to get a few before they go away.
Also FWIW, I take a Dermal tool to the bulb, cutting off the top half of the globe. It makes the light much more directional. I have a few can "up lights" behind planters, furniture, etc for accent lighting, and these hacked bulbs work well in them putting a nice shaft of light up the wall. However fairly high voltages are going to be present on the emitter head, (about three volts per LED die, times the number of die mounted on the head) so the applications must be only where kiddies, kitties, and puppies can't touch.
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FWIW
Since we are on a LED trip here, one of the local Dollar Tree stores has 100W equivalent Sunbeam LEDs. ......
You know.... I found my Theater indoor flood bulbs at one of those dollar stores. They had a limit of ten... so I got my limit. I was lucky to have some relay switches. So... I modernized my old Home Theater a little.
Now.... with the advent of 4K... and short-thrown 4K projectors somewhat affordable. I am considering another upgrade.. to a 100" screen. But also thinking it might be much simpler to just use a 75" Smart TV.......... but that's an entirely different thread.
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In regards to the suggestion of using an add-on motion detector wired into a non-motion sensor fixture, I wanted to point out that in my experience there is a minimum driven wattage that must be present for the motion sensor to function unless it specifically says "All bulb types". I have an older one that did not work until I installed a 40W incandescent "activity" light inside the garage. I actually like this now since it tells me when motion has been detected when inside the garage but it was not something I expected to need to have. I'm sure the same could be accomplished by a resister of appropriate size, but the bulb does double duty. Only risk is 40W bulbs going away.
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I tried installing the motion sensor version of the led carraige fixture. I don't know if it's a bad design or a poorly implemented motion sensor, but it refuses to turn off. Annoying since I like the looks of this one. Since the light sensor and motion detector are combined, it's difficult to tell what's going on.
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If you tried it with an LED bulb.
You may want to try a incandescent bulb. To see if the LED bulb is not compatible with it or it is noisy and confusing the sensor electronics.
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It's not replacable. I tested it in the basement but only that it turned on/off with light.
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I figured out why the motion sensor didn't work. I bought a different fixture than I thought which had no morion control, only dusk/dawn. :'
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After testing 2 fixtures, I'm at a loss. The lights look ok, but they are not very bright. I have 100w bulbs installrd currently and the fixtures I'm thinking of swapping to are 6 and 10 LED units. The current bulbs produce 1400 lumens while these LED units are limited to 500 and 700. How are yall accepting this light shortfall?
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...... I have 100w bulbs installrd currently and the fixtures I'm thinking of swapping to are 6 and 10 LED units. The current bulbs produce 1400 lumens while these LED units are limited to 500 and 700. How are yall accepting this light shortfall?
The orange I ate this morning had a genuine sweet taste and were very juicy. Whereas the apple I ate last night was almost tart with a fleshy texture.
It's difficult to compare apples to oranges. I remember the old sodium lights that lite the outdoors when I was a kid. I never got used to the yellow hue. The switch to sodium was made to save the village (street light) energy... period. color wasn't an issue of consideration... even actual brightness wasn't a main concern.
Decide your requirements. Then make the requirement the goal. Comparing old-to-new... never works that well. If the bulbs don't light what you need to light.... then they are too dim... even if the old bulbs were no better. IMHO... we make a big mistake when we start try to replicate yesterdays function with todays technology. I try real hard (and it's NOT easy) to set new goals that apply to what I realistically want or would like... and then strive to accomplish THAT with the available tech.
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I guess I was saying I like the light level that Edison provided and I'm not as happy with space age tech. I have not used LED for anything beyond flash lights (which are better than old tech IMO). These new fangled carraige fixtures seem to have the same number of emitters as other models, so I assume a similar light level. I could care less about the technology behind it if it isnt bright enough to light my entrance to my needs.
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....... it isnt bright enough to light my entrance to my needs.
And there you go. It really doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks or recommends. You know what you want to be able to see when the lights go on. Once again.... Amazon does have brighter (higher wattage) LED bulbs that your local supply may not. But like with the flashlights.... LED is a bright clean light. I like the LED's very much.
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I ask opinions of others to learn their experience and broaden my knowledge. All I meant was that whether the technology is the latest fad or from 100 years ago, I simply want to understand my options. I currently have a light level that meets my needs (safely lights my front entrance steps so people can navigate them at night). The optioms I am seeing for new lights are screw-in bulb based (incandescent, CFL, LED, etc) and fixed (LED). The fixed LED seem to be very popular, but they appear to be fairly dim. These are the ones I was referring to though when I reread what I posted, it was not mentioned.
If I were to install screw-in bulb fixtures, I suspect I would have less of an issue as LED surely comes in multiple lumen outputs just as other types of bulbs do.
The fixtures style my wife has decided on seem to only come in the fixed LED variety and I was surprised by the light level and curious why others would prefer it. Perhapse my query wasn't well formed though.
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I ask opinions of others to learn their experience and broaden my knowledge............ and I was surprised by the light level and curious why others would prefer it. Perhapse my query wasn't well formed though.
Absolutely nothing wrong with your post(s) or how they were worded. Sorry if I seemed critical (I didn't intend to).
I always try to mention my own experience and thoughts. As... I am not considered an expert in the electronic world... in ANY way. I really like the LED's. But have found that often I am more satisfied with a higher wattage bulb.
I've also found... that the cutting edge of technology can often also be called the bleeding edge. As it can cost a lot more than waiting for the new tech to catch up with demand and production. LED bulbs have recently begun to drop significantly. But they still aren't cheap.
It won't (shouldn't) hurt to continue to use the old bulbs while shopping for cheaper higher lumens LED replacements.
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I was looking at the replacement being LED due to the price drop actually. Costco has the fixtures for $15/ea whereas home stores and lighting centers compare at $50-100/ea. I liked these better until I turned them on.
I am going to install the motion sensor spot lights as they cast a lot of light (2500 lumen IIRC). Those were $30 vs $60 elsewhere. Comparing either of these to standard Edison tech, it's still cheaper so it should have been a bo brainer.
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I've been following your project because it interests me. I am reconsidering my own outside lighting... and of course will be looking exclusively at LED fixtures.
I always like to keep a home project on the back burner.... or at least in the planning stage. Maintenance, repairs, and updates are all part of ownership. I may be replacing the deck railings this summer... and new lighting fixtures would be nice to finish the project off right.