X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: James G on March 10, 2019, 04:50:25 AM
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I bought an Alexa echo dot around the holidays. I was amazed at how good the sound quality was for voice. So far I just use it for reminders, notification of which Ring camera has detected motion or a doorbell press, and notification of Amazon deliveries. I was going to hook my Calendar up to it but it wanted permission to delete my Calendar. No thanks. I plan on adding voice control with brobin's help (above). What else is it useful for?
What is the definition of AI here? Whatever it is, it does not approach the standard one. This is all simple programming.
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What is the definition of AI here? Whatever it is, it does not approach the standard one. This is all simple programming.
There is no universal answer to that here! Ask 10 different users here that question and you'll get probably 8-10 different answers.
Some believe AI is a Voice assistant like Alexa! Voice assistants are at the far low end of true AI as far as I'm concerned.
As of right now your right Alexa or any Voice Assistant in Home Automation is simple programing. However they are getting smarter and I believe they will be more inline with the standard definition some day.
Alexa Hunches is one step in the process, although I do have it enabled I've yet to see it in action.
As to what else a voice assistant like Alexa can do, that list keeps growing everyday.
Think of a Voice assitant as a child they must be taught. Many things can be done by voice like learning your name or finding your HA devices.
Use your imagination if you want the Alexa to do something and it currently isn't possible Amazon is always looking for suggestions.
>!
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.. However they are getting smarter and I believe they will be more inline with the standard definition some day.
Definitions.... are like laws in many ways..... they do NOT cross national borders. But recognizing's human speech and reacting... is by all definitions I am aware of... AI.
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I bought an Alexa echo......….I was going to hook my Calendar up to it but it wanted permission......
My laptop, iPhone, and Alexa all use the same calendar. What an Awesome way to record data, appointments, and such. It's all there, all accessible, from anywhere, anytime. That IS true automation.... at it's best.
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.. Use your imagination if you want the Alexa to do something and it currently isn't possible Amazon is always looking for suggestions.
Or.... do it the other-way-around. Explore the technologies abilities... and then find uses you can exploit in your own life.
An example: Leonardo Da Vinci actually created the idea for the 1st Parachute. However... the invention didn't become popular until after men learned to fly planes. Then people got the idea to exploit the old Parachute idea.
The AI tech is here now. This really is the golden age of Home Automation. But peoples paradigms... are stuck in an era decades past. We have to ACTIVITY LOOK for ways to exploit this new tech.... it ain't going to come to us, you know.
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Definitions.... are like laws in many ways..... they do NOT cross national borders. But recognizing's human speech and reacting... is by all definitions I am aware of... AI.
I guess the first ever software I created (AlertDialer) was by your definition AI. ::) :'
Voice recognition is just a small part of the definition no mater where you are in the world Dave.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence
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If Alexa is AI then it's not a very smart one. Now if Alexa knew enough to ignore a TV ad for Alexa by knowing that the ad is running and/or knowing and ignoring the voice in the ad I'd be more impressed. I really like what I can do with it but it's still just following a preset set of instructions rather than using "intelligence" to make any independent decisions - but whatta ya expect for 30 bucks! rofl
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If Alexa is AI then it's not a very smart one.
Uh-oh, here we go. :'
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If Alexa is AI then it's not a very smart one...... it's still just following a preset set of instructions rather than using "intelligence" to make any independent decisions....
Few "real people" (the ones with the actual real intelligence... that the artificial kind replicates) ever really invent, create, or develop ANYTHING of real value or uniqueness. Most people just sort'a patriot-back what they were taught. Hearing, understanding, and replying (and/or complying) is pretty much "typical intelligence". My Alexa's does a pretty good job of being artificial.
There was even a time.... when [reproducing and then] recognizing a voice... was a big enough of a deal for an International Corp to have based it's logo on it.
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Voice recognition is just a small part of the definition no mater where you are in the world Dave.
It is a whole part! Just not a complete definition. I have an old friend that doesn't hear or speak a work.... but she's completely intelligent.
[When I was] In grade school the bulk of contemporary science saw the use of tools as the defining factor of (human) intelligence. Of course... then several animals were found to also use tools.... and the goal posts got moved. In real science... the goal posts are always getting moved. Remember when Pluto was a planet?
I get the feeling I get WAY more use from my Amazon AI devices than most posters here.... at this particular forum. But of the millions of households using AI... I am confident I am not AI's biggest user. I am just an old Home Automation guy.... who is isn't afraid of change.
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I get the feeling I get WAY more use from my Amazon AI devices than most posters here.... at this particular forum.
Dave, what all do you use Alexa for? I am looking for ideas.
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….. Dave, what all do you use Alexa for? I am looking for ideas.
I already have posted to a thread when you asked that before. And... when you PM'ed me.... I replied with a nice long PM about the same.
The thing is.... Alexa is a digital assistance. AI, and Home Automation at the current highest level.. If you're an old PalmPad-button-pusher... like almost everyone of us here is (myself included)…. yeah Alexa can push the buttons for you by voice command too. And if "lighting control" is what you think "home Automation" is... if that is as far as you can imagine HA to be... then Alexa is a voice controlled button pusher. PERIOD.
For many... actually most here. That's it. That's as far as they can comprehend.... and they can't see any reason to use the Internet to push a PalmPad button.
Since you've already posted that you own a Echo device.... then you should already know that There are Now More Than 70,000 Alexa Skills . And I'll bet that nearly 100 have to do with turning lights on and off. But that also means.... there are THOUSANDS of other Home Automation uses that maybe you haven't explored.
If Home Automation was still nothing more than remote lighting control... like it was 25 years ago... I STILL could NOT tell you how to automate your home. One.... because I don't know you. And I know of no way to guess your ambitions and/or desires for Automation. Here at the forum... we usually only offer suggestions about settings and trouble shootings.
The same thing applies to Alexa and Google devices. "IF" you or anyone else would like to upgrade and modernize their Home Automation with the latest greatest AI technology.... YOU have to do the work. YOU have to sort/shop through thousands of the various apps... read the descriptions and user reviews, install, test, and maybe even take notes and schedule time to USE the new skills... to see if they add value to your life. Yeah... maybe it's a bit like work.
It might be a lot easier to just find a "tin-foil-hat warnings" about how scary todays modern cloud can be. Or reminisce about pushing remote control buttons to have lights come on or go off (the GOOD OLE DAYS). Many here (at the forums) has found those technics to be very effective ways to avoid progress. It doesn't matter.
The deal is.... Alexa is now.... THE primary human interface to all Home Automation Systems. Just like the modern computer-based-communications systems have effectively replaced fax machines, letter writing, errand boys, and wired telephones (and soup cans connected by strings). However.... there are still old guys like myself... who still send cards and call friends and loved ones (from my easy chair). I think the human emotional connections are important. But.... my automation devices aren't human. And I don't assign them make believe feeling.
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James G, despite what Dave's post may imply there are many of us on this forum that use Alexa, Google, Cortana and or other Voice assistants and are comfortable with using them for Home Automation as well as other things.
If you realy wish to learn more about Alexa and any new advancements (skills) that may pop up I suggest you join The un-offical Amazon Echo User forums
(http://www.echotalk.org/index.php) They do touch on the other Voice assistants but the Alexa devices get the most posts. Users there are also are very helpful at trouble shooting should you have a issue.
Maybe I 'll see you there!
>!
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Alexa et al are basically just voice control via a speaker that Amazon et al wired to their search engines. They don't really have all that much smarts at this point and the same can mostly be done with a phone or tablet (I know Android can and assume iPhone as well). The difference between the iOS/Android solution and the smart speakers is really just when it listens and how it responds. The speakers don't have a button that people use to activate the recognition and so they almost feel like an AI assistant. You can set your phone to do the same thing (Google Assistant is basically identical). I wouldn't consider my phone running Google Assistant to be AI but some people think that doing the same thing with a small speaker plugged into the wall is. :'
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Early Sunday morning heavy winds took out a cable pole down the road from our sub division. Fortunately it was not a power pole. Unfortunately cable TV, internet, and perhaps phone is now down for 50 to 60 homes. And because not being a power pole, the cable company does not know when they can get a contractor to set a new pole. Pity all the Alexa, Google, homes with cloud switches.
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During Hurricane Irma we had no power for 9 days and no cable/internet for 12 days. Our 48kw genset took care of the power and the only thing that didn't work was Alexa. All HA schedules executed as usual from the Stargate. The antenna in the attic delivered OTA broadcasts and, thanks to Verizon for suspending data plan overage fees, we even had 4G hotspots for our PCs when needed. It did get me thinking about a cellular modem though but I'll wait for 5G availability for that.
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During Hurricane Irma we had no power for 9 days and no cable/internet for 12 days. Our 48kw genset took care of the power and the only thing that didn't work was Alexa. All HA schedules executed as usual from the Stargate. ……..
…… heavy winds took out a cable pole down the road...……. the cable company does not know when they can get a contractor to set a new pole. Pity all the Alexa, Google, homes with cloud switches.
Alexa et al are basically just voice control via a speaker that Amazon et al wired to their search engines.
NOT... that this forum is predictable..... but my post earlier... already addressed the above posts.
It might be a lot easier to just find a "tin-foil-hat warnings" about how scary todays modern cloud can be. Or reminisce about pushing remote control buttons to have lights come on or go off (the GOOD OLE DAYS). Many here (at the forums) has found those technics to be very effective ways to avoid progress. It doesn't matter. [/b]
...…. many of us on this forum that use Alexa, Google, Cortana and or other Voice assistants and are comfortable with using them for Home Automation as well as other things.[/u][/b]
With 70K+ skills.... I am sure some must be non-automation related. But I can't imagine for the life of me what those skills might do. After all.... Alexa is nothing more than a simple (basic) AI device.
I think the real issue... is many people see "products" like X10 as "Home Automation".... and the rest of todays Home Automation as "other things". As humorous as that is.... it gets old. You see I have a real affection for X10 products. But as X10 isolates itself from the rest of the Home Automation world.... it becomes more and more.... just a remote lighting control product. Or... as I had posted before: (below).
The deal is.... Alexa is now.... THE primary human interface to all Home Automation Systems. Just like the modern computer-based-communications systems have effectively replaced fax machines, letter writing, errand boys, and wired telephones (and soup cans connected by strings). However.... there are still old guys like myself... who still send cards and call friends and loved ones (from my easy chair). I think the human emotional connections are important. But.... my automation devices aren't human. And I don't assign them make believe feeling.
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After all.... Alexa is nothing more than a simple (basic) AI device.
I see nothing even remotely resembling Artificial Intelligence in Alexa. It will sit there forever unless you ask or tell it something. The day it tells me I left the garage door open without prompting and says I should close it, then that's basic AI, IMO. Of course I use Homeseer events to accomplish that, but that's my limited intelligence, not Alexa or any other device.
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quote: "I think the real issue... is many people see "products" like X10 as "Home Automation".... and the rest of todays Home Automation as "other things"."
That doesn't make Alexa AI. I have X10, Lutron, Sonoff and a number of hubs and bridges for different devices but Alexa can and will do only precisely what I've set it up to do. Now if Alexa or any other device saw that I had a flight leaving at 10AM and a wakeup alarm set for 6AM at a location 45 min away from the airport, and saw that there was a major traffic delay along the way and/or that there would likely be a delay at the TSA checkpoint based on the loads to be carried by all the flights leaving from my terminal and, based on all that, decided to wake me up earlier, THEN I'd say we have AI. Would love to see it!
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I think the real issue... is many people see "products" like X10 as "Home Automation".... and the rest of todays Home Automation as "other things". As humorous as that is.... it gets old. You see I have a real affection for X10 products. But as X10 isolates itself from the rest of the Home Automation world.... it becomes more and more.... just a remote lighting control product.
That may be true of some people however many on this forum like myself use X10 for more then just lighting always will. I like your self and others here have "other things" which are automated and I consider them part of my Home Automation setup. These other things are not X10!
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I appreciate all the input. I am sorry Dave but I just cannot accept your definition of AI. As far as I know, there is none anywhere on the planet today. All is just programming. Most people expect AI in a few decades. I consider AI to be self-aware and be able to change its programming. It must be able to consider decisions, reconsider and change its mind. Sorry. :'
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Tuicemen, thanks for the tip on the Alexa Forum. Will join it!
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….. I am sorry Dave but I just cannot accept your definition of AI.
I have no definitions. I merely rely on expert opinion.
As far as I know, there is none anywhere on the planet today. All is just programming. Most people expect AI in a few decades. I consider AI to be self-aware
OK.... you expect AI to be "self-aware"..... then when man (and woman) create self-aware "life" (currently called "children").... you'll call them... AI. AI is an acronym for Artificial Intelligence. The word Artificial…. implies less-than real. Or in the case of AI.... programing.
I should have covered that part of the prevailing paradigm in my earlier post. OH WAIT.... I did!
The thing is.... Alexa is a digital assistance. AI, and …….. if "lighting control" is what you think "home Automation" is... if that is as far as you can imagine HA to be... then Alexa is a voice controlled button pusher. PERIOD.
For many... actually most here. That's it. That's as far as they can comprehend.... and they can't see any reason to use the Internet to push a PalmPad button.
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. That may be true of some people however many on this forum like myself use X10 for more then just lighting always will. I like your self and others here have "other things" which are automated and I consider them part of my Home Automation setup. These other things are not X10!
No. (you had posted that you use Alexa for things OTHER than automation) The question was what are those other things? I see Alexa and Google device as solidly automation products. I am interested in what NON-automation uses AI has.
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I sure hope I don't hurt anyone's feeling.... although we should all be adults here. And even if we weren't.... younger people don't have the rock-solid protective paradigms that I see defended here. It's OK.... we're all only human. This is how our brains work and it can be nearly impossible for most people to step outside their own perceptions. These perceptions are NOT limited to this forum or by any means to Home Automation.
This kind of resistance is why we had diskettes and VHS.... when we could have had CD's instead. Old paradigms slows progress down.... but it also keeps us grounded. I don't think poorly of anyone.... for merely being human.
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I am interested in what NON-automation uses AI has.
Alexa is pretty good at playing "20 questions". d'zat count?
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I am interested in what NON-automation uses AI has.
Alexa is pretty good at playing "20 questions". d'zat count?
I am not a big fan of games... but I have played 20 questions with Alexa. Better entertainment than much of daytime TV. Yeah... entertainment is a BIG part of modern Home Automation.
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…. That may be true of some people however many on this forum like myself use X10 for more then just lighting always will. I like your self and others here have "other things" which are automated and I consider them part of my Home Automation setup. These other things are not X10!
No. (you had posted that you use Alexa for things OTHER than automation) The question was what are those other things? I see Alexa and Google device as solidly automation products. I am interested in what NON-automation uses AI has.
If your going to quote me be sure your reply reflect what I actually posted! Nowhere in that post did I mention Alexa! ???
Your definition of AI is different then mine and it appears lots of users here as well and that's OK by me.
For that reason, the none automation uses AI has, I'll not go down that path.
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I'd be happy if Alexa could figure out that if I say "turn off kitchen" it would know that I mean the kitchen in the same house the Alexa device is in! But nope, not enough AI for that. Someone please prove me wrong on that - I'd love to have that!
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For me Alexa was just a verbal PalmPad. And we had to use only the words it understood. Not much AI required for that...
Jeff
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For me Alexa was just a verbal PalmPad. And we had to use only the words it understood. Not much AI required for that...
Jeff
A couple of months ago I learned that you can customize the words by setting up a "Routine" with whatever words you like. While a routine can set off multiple commands I used one so that instead of saying "turn off garage door" to close it, I can now say "close garage door" which sends the "turn off" command to my Pi Alexa Hub. I did the same thing for some shades and motorized sliding doors.
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Nest thermostats are supposed to be learning in which case they should be considered AI to some degree. You train it by setting temps at different times and days and it learns what you typically do and mimics it. When you give a machine a bunch of conditions and your desired response to them, learning through a neural network can occur and that is typically considered AI. I've watched some youtube stuff where random actions that are weeded out to get a desired final result are considered AI...yeah, not really. But neural network approaches certainly appear to be pretty legit to me. They are not perfect, but for the purposes of HA (Nest thermostats in this case), it should get you everything you would do in your daily routine pretty quickly. It won't be able to automatically figure out you are on vacation I assume. Then again, if the internet goes out you may not have a functioning thermostat (unless there is local logic stored these days). I personally have never found a problem with my 7 day programmable unit. Since Nest isn't compatible with my furnace, it's not an option anyway.
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Because we traveled a lot I wanted the house to automatically switch to vacation mode if I forgot to set it manually. Since the Stargate is connected to the alarm system and knows when it's armed I've set an event that, in essence, says, "IF time is 2AM and alarm-away is armed THEN set vacation flag." I have a number of events, including t-stats, with vacation flag conditionals. When I set this up many years ago, I chose the 2AM time since it's rare that we'd be out till then. Nowadays I could probably safely set that to 10PM. rofl
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Speaking of t'stats, my Honeywell adapts to weather conditions so as not to overshoot when warming things up in the morning. It does it internally without needing the cloud although it does access the cloud for other things. As long as the temps are reasonably close day to day, it adjusts just fine. But when it's 25 for almost a week and suddenly 45 the next morning the t'stat doesn't know what to do, so it just modifies its routine moving forward. However, it can't do anything on that particular day. That would be a primitive AI.
I asked Honeywell to allow their t'stat to read the outside temp so it could react to changes on a daily basis. They said it wasn't built to do that. I said it should have been. Sigh...
So what do I use Google home for besides HA? I occasionally ask for definitions, ask about people, ask it to play some music.
I would like to ask when the next high tide is, but Google can't help with that.
@brobin-
Speaking of garage doors, I setup Google and Homeseer so I can say Close the Garage door or Open the Garage door. Great, but when I say Open the Garage door, Google Home or google on my phone says "Sure, turning on the garage door" or OK, turning off the garage door. I guess my AI capabilities need more learning.
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Dave, I consider humans natural and electronic devices artificial. I no longer wish to discuss what is meant by AI as there are too many conflicts. Each of us have different definitions. Perhaps a separate thread could be started?
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Speaking of t'stats, my Honeywell adapts to weather conditions so as not to overshoot when warming things up in the morning. It does it internally without needing the cloud although it does access the cloud for other things. As long as the temps are reasonably close day to day, it adjusts just fine. But when it's 25 for almost a week and suddenly 45 the next morning the t'stat doesn't know what to do, so it just modifies its routine moving forward. However, it can't do anything on that particular day. That would be a primitive AI.
I asked Honeywell to allow their t'stat to read the outside temp so it could react to changes on a daily basis. They said it wasn't built to do that. I said it should have been. Sigh...
So what do I use Google home for besides HA? I occasionally ask for definitions, ask about people, ask it to play some music.
I would like to ask when the next high tide is, but Google can't help with that.
@brobin-
Speaking of garage doors, I setup Google and Homeseer so I can say Close the Garage door or Open the Garage door. Great, but when I say Open the Garage door, Google Home or google on my phone says "Sure, turning on the garage door" or OK, turning off the garage door. I guess my AI capabilities need more learning.
If I ask Alexa about high tides it'll tell me both high tides for the day.
Since the garage doors use the same RF signal for both opening and closing, I put an alarm contact on the door so the Stargate knows if it's open or closed. It'll only execute the close command if it's open and vice versa.
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If I ask Alexa about high tides it'll tell me both high tides for the day.
Since the garage doors use the same RF signal for both opening and closing, I put an alarm contact on the door so the Stargate knows if it's open or closed. It'll only execute the close command if it's open and vice versa.
Alexa knows tides, cool!
I understand about the garage door, my point was if the garage door is open and I tell Google to open the garage door, it says, ok. It should day the garage door is already open. Homeseer knows if the garage door is open or closed because of a tilt sensor on the garage door that reports back. I could write an event but if I just used Google to open the door, you would think it knows that it just opened the door and would say so.
The problem is we have two technologies almost working together. When Alexa/Google check with the controlling software HG/Homeseer/Smartthings/etc. before saying something or executing a command then that's AI. Make a decision based on a question, not a statement.
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My Honeywell tstat knows the outside temperature and uses it for controlling things. Since I have a heat pump it has to keep track of outside temps in case it gets too cold. Have to lock out most heat pumps at a certain temp to avoid damaging things. Mine becomes a block of ice at ~25F but some are higher or lower.
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Heat pumps are another animal for sure. I know on hot water systems like mine there is some reset that can be set so the water going through the radiators is hotter or no so hot based on an outside temp reading. You are essentially resetting the furnace. Sorry, don't remember the technical verbiage.
It shouldn't take much effort to build an outside temp sensor into the loop and use it for some heat prediction needs. Some Honeywells have the connection point IIRC but do nothing with it other than display the outside temp.
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I'd be happy if Alexa could figure out that if I say "turn off kitchen" it would know that I mean the kitchen in the same house the Alexa device is in! But nope, not enough AI for that. Someone please prove me wrong on that - I'd love to have that!
I believe.... You might be able to set a command to be [echo] device specific. So that only ONE exact Echo would run the "Kitchen Routine". Or... you might want to try adding a word to the kitchen routine like...... "this" kitchen.
Or... if you're like Tuicemen (with a City home, and an out-of-town place... with both automated) this might be an excellent opportunity to use geofencing. So the commands given.... would depend on the location of you phone.
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Dave, I consider humans natural and electronic devices artificial.
. Each of us have different definitions. Perhaps a separate thread could be started?
Yeah.... like any of us here are experts in all nations use of the English language? I am certainly NOT. I depend on the experts to provide definitions. Maybe... it's just too hard for most people to do even brief internet searches to learn current technology terms. Or most likely.... people will do anything to protect their preconceived ideas. Paradigms are of real value to their owners. People guard them like gold.
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For me Alexa was just a verbal PalmPad. And we had to use only the words it understood. Not much AI required for that...
Jeff
A LOT of people feel that way Jeff. I even posted as much here:
....... The thing is.... Alexa is a digital assistance. AI, and Home Automation at the current highest level.. If you're an old PalmPad-button-pusher... like almost everyone of us here is (myself included)…. yeah Alexa can push the buttons for you by voice command too. And if "lighting control" is what you think "home Automation" is... if that is as far as you can imagine HA to be... then Alexa is a voice controlled button pusher. PERIOD.
For many... actually most here. That's it. That's as far as they can comprehend.... and they can't see any reason to use the Internet to push a PalmPad button.
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Speaking of t'stats, my Honeywell adapts to weather conditions so as not to overshoot when warming things up in the morning. It does it internally without needing the cloud although it does access the cloud for other things. As long as the temps are reasonably close day to day, it adjusts just fine. But when it's 25 for almost a week and suddenly 45 the next morning the t'stat doesn't know what to do, so it just modifies its routine moving forward. However, it can't do anything on that particular day. That would be a primitive AI.
My Nest thermostat uses the local temp as found on the web.... to predict the time it will take to heat or cool my home from a pre-set safe level. So when no one is home... based on a built-in motion sensor and confirmed by phone locations.... the Nest will allow indoor temps to rise/fall to pre-set safe limits... then attempt to recover before we arrive home (based on phone location). It does a fair job.
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...... my point was if the garage door is open and I tell Google to open the garage door, it says, ok. It should day the garage door is already open.........
you would think it knows that it just opened the door and would say so.
I know a lady who can NOT hear or speak... but she is really intelligent. But conversationally..... she lacks a lot. You can say the same about Alexa. Alexa has awesome speech recognition... but conversationally..... she lacks a lot. I understand Google does a better job with conversation.
But then Alexa's voice.... that's a creation like none other. And although few seem to noticed... her voice and the way she expresses things continues to learn from the reactions of the over 60 millions users. And BTW... Alexa does have a slight accent. Her voice... is part of a learning program. Who knows.... someday she may add "eh" at the end of her sentences.
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Would it be possible to unlock the "Is there any replacement for the old Plato controller system?" thread since it is fairly new?
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Would it be possible to unlock the "Is there any replacement for the old Plato controller system?" thread since it is fairly new?
Yes, it was locked to get the Voice Assistant discussion separate and moved to this thread.
Done!
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I know.... a lot of people would just rather wing a definition for AI. But it just not that simple. And even if it was... AI has become a non-regulated "term". Which means different industries and/or different corporations may choose somewhat different and/or non-conventual uses for the term.
But there is some interesting reading Here (https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/doc/2017/artificial-intelligence-and-machine-learning-policy-paper/?gclid=CjwKCAjw1KLkBRBZEiwARzyE76gwkUhfBW8rWlYu1cV-TT48WI5_WKimkYxDqKxEJqk_pHkvDELnFRoCcSgQAvD_BwE) which include plenty of other links for more research.... including a Wikipedia post (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence).
At least it points out some of the gravity AI and the cloud brings to computers, the Internet, commerce, and modern life in general.
https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/doc/2017/artificial-intelligence-and-machine-learning-policy-paper/?gclid=CjwKCAjw1KLkBRBZEiwARzyE76gwkUhfBW8rWlYu1cV-TT48WI5_WKimkYxDqKxEJqk_pHkvDELnFRoCcSgQAvD_BwE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence
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Kaplan and Haenlein define AI as a systems ability to correctly interpret external data, to learn from such data, and to use those learnings to achieve specific goals and tasks through flexible adaptation
...so using a skill which tells Alexa how to interact with a specific input is not AI by that definition. The core of AI is that the system must be able to take in information that the programmer/designer didn't explicitly dictate a response to and the AI formulating an appropriate response. Telling Alexa that if it's dark and motion is sensed to turn a light on is not AI. That is simply responding to triggers that the HA system designer explicitly provided instructions to. If the system detects motion/noise/window break sensors/etc in your home when it already determined based on other observations that you are on vacation and automatically determines the best action is to call the police...THAT is AI. But hey, I'm just reading the definition of AI off some web site I found a link to on a forum.
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I thought the Wikipedia article was excellent as it covers all forms of AI we have been discussing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence)
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Kaplan and Haenlein define AI as a systems ability to correctly interpret external data, to learn from such data, and to use those learnings to achieve specific goals and tasks through flexible adaptation
...so using a skill which tells Alexa how to interact with a specific input is not AI by that definition.
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Actually.... since the Echo/Alexa itself is a learning AI device... the functions it is used for, are also (by even the above definition) AI.
For over a decade.... I had Voice Recognition Software (MS SAPI5 and BVC) controlling my X10.... plus a IR device. Although the software did access a weather site (for weather reports) and could read emails and news..... it was shy of IA. Tuicemen worked on/created a software that looked for the Bluetooth on my mobile phone.... and I worked very hard here with resident detection/counting.
We were years ahead of many..... but well shy of Amazon's AI device. I understand people don't really understand what this thing is.... or how it changes everything. But Alexa is AI....
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I thought the Wikipedia article was excellent as it covers all forms of AI we have been discussing:
We? You have a mouse in your pocket tonight? I thought you believed AI had to be "self-aware".
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AI must be learning and not programmed. Calling a voice controller shy of AI is like saying you threw a rock and were shy of landing a human on the moon. Watson was called AI and was probably the closest that has been come to so far. It could read vasts amountso of data from various sources, build a database of knowledge, and with quick response time, answer questions that it was capable of interpreting. Nothing against that system, but it did cheat in order to beat Jennings though.
In any case, AWS is a massively capable system that processes astronomical quantities of data. It handles large numbers of requests simultaneously and near instantaneously. But, calling what people use it for AI is closer to the rock than the moon. Use it how you want, but don't claim it is what it's not and pretend you are better than others when they don't embrace the same vision. You aren't wrong for designing your system your way, but choosing another technically more challenging/rewarding path isn't wrong either.
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We? You have a mouse in your pocket tonight? I thought you believed AI had to be "self-aware".
I said that the site Wikipedia site was nice because it covered most definitions of AI. I suppose my definition is along the lines of:
Artificial general intelligence:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_general_intelligence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_general_intelligence)
I guess what I am saying is use whichever definition you like and then let others know so they know where you are coming from. In terms of being "self-aware", I guess we are entering philosophy.
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AI must be learning and not programmed.
Alexa IS a learning software.
... Use it how you want, but don't claim it is what it's not and pretend you are better than others when they don't embrace the same vision. You aren't wrong for designing your system your way, but choosing another technically more challenging/rewarding path isn't wrong either.
You skim don't you. You don't actually read.... you mostly just skim the text to get an idea of what was written.... and react to what you then imagine (or feel) is topical. Alexa is AI.... not because I think so.... but because all the experts think so.
I neither pretend (or believe) I am better than others that don't embrace the same vision [I do]. It ain't even my damn vision! I have no special talent, skill, or ability to predict the future. But I have been trained to recognize paradigms... and to weight those preconceived ideals with actual events on the ground. The reality is.... Amazon has sold MASSIVE amounts of automation products with it's AI product at the center of what is now.... the new [home automation] normal.
To be brutally honest.... I could NOT care less about how you or others operate their Home Automation.
But I do care about X10. And if X10 doesn't get with the program.... and catch-up with where the customer base is heading.... X10 will end-up selling ONS on Ebay. And that helps no one.
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I said that the site Wikipedia site was nice because it covered most definitions of AI. I suppose my definition is along the lines of:
Artificial general intelligence:
That's what I love about America. Our language is free enough... we can say most anything we want. But think about this: Wouldn't get confusing if every vender, manufacturer, marketer, salesperson, and catalog..... called every car part by a different name?... or their own made-up name?
I guess what I am saying is use whichever definition you like and then let others know so they know where you are coming from. In terms of being "self-aware", I guess we are entering philosophy.
Fortunately industry and government has what is called standardization boards. That's how we keep things recognizable and understandable. Everyone is still free to say whatever they'd like. But that doesn't actually change what things are. But thank God... everyone here at this forum has BOTH... some sort of Internet device, and a web browser. So the knowledge is free for the picking.
Unfortunately.... busting up those old rock solid paradigms... is painful... and often as not... impossible.
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Here we are in 100% agreement. I really care about X-10 too. From what I understand, it is still the biggest home control in the world.
The existing company seems to be improving. I had a problem where an appliance controller could not turn off a CFL because the controller just turned back on from the feedback. I contacted X-10 and they suggested a new module. Solved the problem.
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... I really care about X-10 too. From what I understand, it is still the biggest home control in the world.
Your kidding right?!?!?!? Amazon sold more Alexa related merchandise last month..... than X10 has since 1975.
We're smack in the middle of a Home Automation Golden Era. NEVER has Home Automation seen such a huge popularity. Amazon has sold over 60 million AI [Echo-Alexa] devices alone. Home Automation "kits" are EVERYWHERE.... and not even ONE X10 vendor to be found.... anywhere. Even back-in-the-day when we had Radio Shack stores... where you could buy X10 (as well as their RS branded X10) Home Automation was nothing more than a niche market. Used by electronic hobbyists and a few home owners for "lighting solutions" to problem areas.
Yeah... once upon a time.... X10 was the bee's knees. But now.... thanks mostly to the input from members of this very forum... X10 has been relegated to the favored protocol of those who fear the Internet. But I guess this could still workout for us X10 users. I mean.... maybe the Internet is just a passing fad.
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Here we are in 100% agreement.
Except.... I've been almost singularly promoting the idea of returning X10 to a smart (connected) form of Home Automation. An idea... actually (I believe) created by X10. Yet if you read the posts here. You'll read true (sometimes vile) "tin-foil-hat type" opposition to the new AI devices. Or... those who deny that AI even exists! Pure conspiracy theory, crazy-stuff.... like if the machines aren't self-aware... it ain't REAL AI.
No I am alone in this promotion of AI and X10 Home Automation. But I can't lose! I am going to be fine. I will continue to have a wonderful setup... with or without X10. X10 is the one that will lose.
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Except.... I've been almost singularly promoting the idea of returning X10 to a smart (connected) form of Home Automation. An idea... actually (I believe) created by X10.
Oh come on now Dave!
Most if not all that have commented in this thread use a voice assistant in their Home Automation setup of some sort!
The use of X10 with any voice Assistant is (and always has been) totally possible just like controlling any brand TV yet few TV manufactures have Alexa skills!
Just because some, most or all disagree with your definition of AI doesn't mean your a sole supporter of AI! >*<
No one is denying the benefits of any AI to AH & X10 no mater what their definition is!
Preaching your definition of AI will not change any ones perception of it and if you look over the posts your not the Only one promoting X10 and a Smart Home but your promoting your definition of AI. ::) :'
>!
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Most if not all that have commented in this thread use a voice assistant in their Home Automation setup of some sort!
Yes, Tuicemen helped me get X10 working with Alexa over a year ago. I even bought a used laptop to dedicate to it 24/7. But I found that we didn't really use it except when demonstrating it to guests. Maybe that is because the house is already smart enough to pretty much take care of itself. One big factor was for the Ocelot to monitor temperature so it could adjust irrigation and auxiliary ventilation accordingly. Most everything else is driven by sunrise/sunset, time of year, and some motion sensors. That laptop now sits unused. No need to waste power.
Previously I had commented about using a PalmpPad, but the only time I normally use one is to either cancel a scheduled irrigation cycle due to rain predicted for the next day or for pressing "4_OFF" as I pass by it on the end table to start the bedtime sequence. I suppose I could have told Alexa to start the bedtime sequence, but I just find the PalmPad more convenient. And usually the Ocelot starts the bedtime sequence by itself by beginning to turn off lights at this end of the house to remind me it is time to go to bed.
Jeff
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FWIW, HG has a voice control via either the web or app interface. There are videos showing how to use voice control that are 3 or 4 years old on youtube. Every other HA software that is current (i.e., not AHP) has both voice control and a web/app interface that works well once configured. I guess we've all been using AI all along!
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Voice control of X10 has been around well before Alexa or even BXVC, both which Dave touts as revolutionary voice tools.
Many X10 old timers played with X10 voice control years prior. I was controlling X10 via voice with a flip phone and Window 95, prior to those revolutionary voice tools. I've been playing with Voice control since Windows 3.1 and dhouston (I believe) was playing with voice control well before that.
These things had to be taught to recognize your voice however they were poor or unable to recognizing anyone else's voice.
Voice recognition has improved by leaps and bounds over the years. Amazon has done an excellent job of packaging Voice control, using a simular method Microsoft used in improving their Windows speech engine. So if Alexa is AI then so is Windows and we've all been using AI for X10 longer then any of us realize. My definition of AI is not Alexa, however I do believe any Voice assistant is close to becoming AI in my eyes very quickly. ;)
Also AI doesn't scare me so I guess I don't fit into the most x10 users here category HA Dave keeps mentioning.
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Yeah... once upon a time.... X10 was the bee's knees. But now.... thanks mostly to the input from members of this very forum... X10 has been relegated to the favored protocol of those who fear the Internet. But I guess this could still workout for us X10 users. I mean.... maybe the Internet is just a passing fad.
I gotta call BS on this one. ::) I don't think that any of us here "fear the internet" or think it's "just a passing fad." To the contrary, those of us here are probably more connected and savvy than most of our peers. UNlike many of our peers and those much younger, we are not as trusting of the "good intentions" of various private and governmental entities and wish to at least be cognizant of what we might be trading for the benefit we get. That's not a tin foil hat - it's awareness. And, it's an issue of reliability - of the internet connections themselves, manufacturers that push products out the door before being ready for prime time (no pun intended) and companies who abandon their servers instantly creating thousands of doorstops.
You might claim "tin foil hat" but read about what Google is doing with school kids here: https://goo.gl/tpqE2g
Many of us use Alexa or GH as a convenience. I don't consider it AI but respect your opinion. I gave some examples of what I consider AI earlier in this thread.
As far as X10 goes, the company already IS dead. They have no marketing presence, no new products (that work as advertised) and no industry support or recognition other than as a "legacy" product. Most of us here use it solely because it's what we've had for years, we know how to use it and it works for us - not because we're stuck in some outdated "paradigm." If it didn't satisfy our needs we'd drop it in a heartbeat. Someone starting out today wouldn't even be aware of it in the marketplace. >!
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I do have some concern about a couple of decades from now with the Singularity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity)
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I do have some concern about a couple of decades from now with the Singularity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity)
It may not be that far off! http://theemergingfuture.com/speed-technological-advancement.htm
>!
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I do have some concern about a couple of decades from now with the Singularity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity)
It may not be that far off! http://theemergingfuture.com/speed-technological-advancement.htm
>!
You are correct. Technology is moving faster at an accelerating pace.
(Did you see my request to you on the Plato thread?)
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(Did you see my request to you on the Plato thread?)
Yes, done
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I do have some concern about a couple of decades from now with the Singularity.
It may not be that far off!
>!
http://theemergingfuture.com/speed-technological-advancement.htm
I fully plan to serve our future-coming, computer overloads to the best of my ability [humor]. So... I have no "concern" [fear] of the dark, scary, imagined future... that exists in the minds, and hearts of all men (and women). Computers, robots, friendly neighboring nations...
they will all eventually war with us. Battle and death is just a part of the human experience. I accept my being human.... and as such I know my fate.
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(Did you see my request to you on the Plato thread?)
Yes, done
I meant the second request. Thanks!
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. So if Alexa is AI then so is Windows and we've all been using AI for X10 longer then any of us realize. My definition of AI is not Alexa...
..
Also AI doesn't scare me so I guess I don't fit into the most x10 users here category HA Dave keeps mentioning.
So.... if IA doesn't exist in your mind.... of course it doesn't scare you. But since all the experts say Google and Echo are AI.... wouldn't that just mean your in denial. And... isn't THAT what I actually posted "fear or denial".
Yes voice recognition has been around for a long time. Many of us played with the Dragon Speaking stuff on our IBM look-alikes. Buying the proper soundcard, being at the "correct' processor speed (and brand). Those were the days. I know where we're at.... partly because I took every step of the journey.
I know not everyone is exploiting the AI part of Home Automation (yet). And that doesn't demean them in any way. But I am. And for me.... there is no turning back.
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... As far as X10 goes, the company already IS dead. They have no marketing presence, no new products (that work as advertised) and no industry support or recognition other than as a "legacy" product. Most of us here use it solely because it's what we've had for years, we know how to use it and it works for us - not because we're stuck in some outdated "paradigm." If it didn't satisfy our needs we'd drop it in a heartbeat. Someone starting out today wouldn't even be aware of it in the marketplace. >!
I thought I had replied to this... but somehow I missed it.
In many ways I know you're completely correct. I don't like to think of X10 as dead, or legacy. I think there is still value in a non-WiFi protocol [PLC] product. But that may just be me stuck in my outdated paradigm (we ALL have them you know).
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In many ways I know you're completely correct. I don't like to think of X10 as dead, or legacy. I think there is still value in a non-WiFi protocol [PLC] product. But that may just be me stuck in my outdated paradigm (we ALL have them you know).
We agree. There is still value in a non-WiFi protocol [PLC] product, it's just that X10 has, for whatever reason, bowed out leaving the field to ZWave, ZigBee and Insteon. All have local and cloud based control options including X10 albeit a feeble, failed attempt. But even then, the little Smartenit G2 device I'm playing with is cloud controlled with X10, Insteon & Zigbee built in (plus others) and an Alexa skill.
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So.... if IA doesn't exist in your mind.... of course it doesn't scare you. But since all the experts say Google and Echo are AI.... wouldn't that just mean your in denial. And... isn't THAT what I actually posted "fear or denial".
Here we go Again! >*< >*<
I never said IA doesn't exist!
I said my definition of AI was different then yours and I guess your so called experts!
I don't consider Alexa or any voice assistant AI (yet).
So your suggesting I should be scared of Alexa, or any Voice Assistants?
Or should I be scared of IA what ever that is? rofl
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How do we put an end to this. Take a vote?
I say Alexa, Google, etc are not AI, not even close.
I still stand by my previous statement, AI is the ability to make a correct statement based on a question. The computer at the other end will need to analyze the question and come up with an answer. I have yet to see that with any of the offerings. Of cousre if you ask the right question... but ask a question that requires one second of thougt...
All I see is a bunch of pretty fancy, if - then - elseif - elseif - ...
Ask your favorite microphone why the chicken crossed the road. Remember, the intelligence is artificial. Mine said, there are so many chickens, they should carpool. That's not an answer worthy of an AI gold star, IMO.
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Ask your favorite microphone why the chicken crossed the road. Remember, the intelligence is artificial. Mine said, there are so many chickens, they should carpool. That's not an answer worthy of an AI gold star, IMO.
rofl
The OP asked, what the definition of AI was here on this forum?
I believe it has been answered even thought the preacher wants everyone to conform to their belief.
As I originally stated:
What is the definition of AI here? Whatever it is, it does not approach the standard one. This is all simple programming.
There is no universal answer to that here! Ask 10 different users here that question and you'll get probably 8-10 different answers.
Some believe AI is a Voice assistant like Alexa! Voice assistants are at the far low end of true AI as far as I'm concerned.
I think we are at the cusp of seeing what most regard the definition of AI to be.
For now Voice assistants as far as I'm concerned are not AI (yet). If I'm in denial so be it! >!
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How do we put an end to this. Take a vote?
I say Alexa, Google, etc are not AI, not even close.
What would be the vote question? And answer options, just simple yes/no answers?
Adding a Poll is a simple task.
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the little Smartenit G2 device I'm playing with is cloud controlled with X10, Insteon & Zigbee built in (plus others) and an Alexa skill.
I am using a Homeseer (thanks to racerfern). I also use other stuff (a wide variety) . But everything integrates using the Alexa app (and devices).
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How do we put an end to this. Take a vote?
That is how it's done at the industry standardization meetings! Unfortunately... I haven't been asked to join any. I'd guess at this point... based on favorability and popularity (not to mention money to throw around)
. Amazon is likely running the home automation industry at this time.
But we could vote on a new name for Americium-241 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americium-241). I mean why not... we are a bunch of guys on the Internet... what else do we need to know?
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.. So your suggesting I should be scared of Alexa, or any Voice Assistants?
Fear is part of the human condition. Fear is as much a part of people.... as is blood. But I don't recommend you live like that (either in fear or denial)
there just isn't any reason to live/think like that. Why would it matter to Amazon... if you don't think their unimaginably successful AI product meets your approval? Trust me.... you aren't making Amazon look foolish.
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I still stand by my previous statement, AI is the ability to make a correct statement based on a question...…... but ask a question that requires one second of thougt...
Whos thought? Alexa can answer the question: "when is my next Dentist Appointment" (or doctors appointment, etc..). Alexa knows to look in my calendar to look that stuff up. Alexa can even count the days till the appointment... or days till Christmas. Tonight.... strangely enough... Alexa responded conversationally. I knew Google could do that but I hadn't realized Alexa could do that yet. She/it grows by the day. Alexa operates on a learning platform (or so I've read)… which in itself makes Alexa AI.
You get back from technology... in accordance to your investment. If you haven't seen the AI yet... you haven't looked hard enough.
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I have several automation products and protocols. They all (X10 included with the WM-100) have apps that run on my iPhone. There are 14 automation apps on my phone. Through their own apps they all work individually. But through the Alexa app (one of the 14)
. they all integrate and work together.
I can no longer imagine my setup... without that integration. For the life of me... I can't imagine why others avoid this.
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Here we go Again! >*< >*<
I never said "IA" doesn't exist!
I said my definition of AI was different then yours and I guess your so called experts!
I don't consider Alexa or any voice assistant AI (yet).
So your suggesting I should be scared of Alexa, or any Voice Assistants?
Or should I be scared of "IA" what ever that is? rofl
I do have 1 concern about Alexa. I was going to connect my Calendar but 1 of the permissions I had to give Alexa was to delete my calendar. I am not willing to do that.
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It appears that there are many definitions of AI (Artificial Intelligence). Companies like to claim AI as it adds to their products. We each have our own definition and a right to it. Mine is: "Artificial general intelligence".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_general_intelligence
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.. So your suggesting I should be scared of Alexa, or any Voice Assistants?
Fear is part of the human condition. Fear is as much a part of people.... as is blood. But I don't recommend you live like that (either in fear or denial)
there just isn't any reason to live/think like that. Why would it matter to Amazon... if you don't think their unimaginably successful AI product meets your approval? Trust me.... you aren't making Amazon look foolish.
I realy dont understand where you read i dont aprove of Alexa or that Im trying to make Amazon look foolish. :o ::)
Is anyone else seeing that?
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.. I realy dont understand where you read i dont aprove of Alexa or that Im trying to make Amazon look foolish. :o ::)
Deductive reasoning? I am actually just following YOUR lead. After you post what YOU assume are my thoughts (and they never are)
I reply with what appears to be your thoughts. Only instead of just insults made-up mostly out of whole cloth..... I add highlighted quotes.
But to explain my post.... Amazon claims their Echo devices (and their cloud-base learning software) to be true AI (made for the home). And all the industry (and grammar) experts agree. So..... who looks foolish or tin-foil-hat-ish when they make-up their own definition(s)
in contradiction to prevailing standards?
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. We each have our own definition and a right to it.
In America.... we have a free and democratic language! Not so in most nations.... maybe... because people often tend to abuse language. You know... using words outside of their definition. Therefore putting standardization's and even basic communications.... at risk. Some would think... that freedom also requires adult behavior. I know... it was all a lot easier back-in-the-day... when the average person had a vocabulary of 5000 words or less. But we can't roll back time.
It's hard to believe... that someone who is concerned about search engines finding the proper site/post... would also be haphazard about their own use of words within their post. As the proper noun is just one example of the importance of proper word [definition] use for searching. As an example: If everyone on this one Site used the term SW (for self-aware) or AGI (for Artificial general intelligence) instead of AI.... then NONE of our posts about what everyone else refers to as AI.... would ever show-up in a search about Artificial Intellgence.
How about we use SW this month... then next month use AGI. Then in May I suggest we use the term FS (for Fake Smarts). This way we can REALLY screw-up the X10 data base of Home Automation knowledge.
I know this post might sound condescending (that means... talking down to the OP)
. but please accept the post with the real plain English humor intended.
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I do have 1 concern about Alexa. I was going to connect my Calendar but 1 of the permissions I had to give Alexa was to delete my calendar. I am not willing to do that.
Computers are great calculators. But they also excel at..... and now-a-days are mostly used for communications. All networks evolve around permissions. If the X10 forum didn't give people permission to post.... how effective would it be? If you don't enable your computing device with permissions.... it won't work.
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Whos thought? Alexa can answer the question: "when is my next Dentist Appointment" (or doctors appointment, etc..). Alexa knows to look in my calendar to look that stuff up. Alexa can even count the days till the appointment... or days till Christmas. Tonight.... strangely enough... Alexa responded conversationally. I knew Google could do that but I hadn't realized Alexa could do that yet. She/it grows by the day. Alexa operates on a learning platform (or so I've read)
which in itself makes Alexa AI.
I'm pretty sure if you ask the office paperclip when your dentist appointment is, it can check your calendar. See, you've been using AI since the mid 1990's!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Assistant
IMO (and apparently the world outside of HA Dave), if it's simply searching a database and responding based on simple rules, that is not AI. If my dentist appt wasn't on the calendar and Clippy had been able to scour the scary internets and whatever dark webs my personal data had been sold on, maybe that would be AI. rofl
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IMO (and apparently the world outside of HA Dave), if it's simply searching a database and responding based on simple rules, that is not AI.
I agree with you that simply searching a database and echoing what was found in a pleasing voice is not AI. But using that information to answer a question not directly addressed in the database could be.
Jeff
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https://internetof****.net/theres-an-internet-of-****-song-and-its-amazing/ (https://internetof****.net/theres-an-internet-of-****-song-and-its-amazing/)
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IMO (and apparently the world outside of HA Dave), if it's simply searching a database and responding based on simple rules, that is not AI.
I agree with you that simply searching a database and echoing what was found in a pleasing voice is not AI. But using that information to answer a question not directly addressed in the database could be.
Jeff
Absolutely! I'm just saying that if a database exists and you ask a question that pulls data from it, that's nothing more than a query. If you ask a question of a system and it determines both what is important to check and gives you more than a basic answer directly asked, that could be AI.
IOW, "When do I need to leave for the airport" could give me a time based on a standard driving time table lookup (not AI). Or, it could factor in current traffic conditions ("AI" by some definitions but not really). Or, it could check to see what's going to be happening within the next hour and find out that a dignitary is flying in and the freeway will be shut down so it reroutes and determines an appropriate time. The latter could definitely be considered AI but it all depends on how it's coded. If it's coded to check all of that stuff explicitly, then not AI. But if it's coded to learn new things to check based on past experience, that's learning and thus AI.
This is not as complicated a topic as it has been made. Marketing aside, if the machine can actually learn, then it has AI. If it is explicitly programmed to test certain conditions, that's programming rather than AI. Learning is the key.
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https://internetof****.net/theres-an-internet-of-****-song-and-its-amazing/ (https://internetof****.net/theres-an-internet-of-****-song-and-its-amazing/)
Welp, now I'm afraid of the IoT. rofl
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…. IMO (and apparently the world outside of HA Dave), if it's simply searching a database and responding based on simple rules, that is not AI. …..
Apparently... according to many here.... REAL intelligence is simply adding in childish insults to any response about standard definitions. Maybe... you're some sort of grammar master.... that works at/for Webster. Or maybe you do tech research for Microsoft and actually have credentials that back up your opinion.
Or maybe.... you just have "opinions" about AI, fake Moon landings, Alien adductions, childhood vaccinations, ..... and other such things. ONCE AGAIN.... blaming technical progress like AI.... that scares you is NOT my fault. IA is here despite the people with tin foil hats. I chose to error (if that is what I am doing) on the side of real science, and actual known experts in the technology fields... instead of Internet opinions.
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IMO (and apparently the world outside of HA Dave), if it's simply searching a database and responding based on simple rules, that is not AI.
I agree with you that simply searching a database and echoing what was found in a pleasing voice is not AI. But using that information to answer a question not directly addressed in the database could be.
Jeff
I just wonder? Is echoing an insult Real Intelligence or is AI? Or maybe..... the lack or either?
Maybe.... you should realize that reading back a search query... is NOT (always) what Alexa/Google really does. These AI devices run on learning software that resides on cloud servers. Invisible to you... sure. But then.... parroting back insults... is just a bunch easier (besides being EXACTLY what you're accusing AI of doing). I'd guess.... that the experts would likely think mechanically repeating insults are much farther down the "intelligence scale" than cross-platform cloud searches.
You can do much better Jeff.
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You can do much better Jeff.
Yup. Bye...
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You guys behave so poorly when frightened.
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I have not seen anything yet that I would consider AI. It is all just programming. They are necessary building blocks that will eventually lead to "Artificial general intelligence".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_general_intelligence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_general_intelligence)
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Huh, not sure where I said anything offensive. But, maybe I struck a nerve that damaged perceptions and egos? Amazon, Google, etc may be using the cloud to provide services and there may be elements of AI in it, but the features that have been touted as examples of AI here don't mesh with the definition. I would agree that the advertising engine is most certainly AI if that helps anyone'seen hurt feelings.
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I agree with most everyone above. Nothing in Alexa, Google or anyone else shows real AI. It's all trying and it purports to figure things out, but when you think about it, 99.9% is lightning fast table lookup.
The other .1% is lost. At this point in computers, computers can't think. I'm not scared of AI, I look forward to successful demonstrations and implementations of it.
The other day, in an attempt to give AI the benefit of the doubt I simply told Google to open the garage door. The a few minutes later with the door open, I told it to open it again. Google said OK. A few minutes after that, I closed the garage door by using the button supplied with the door opener and my system went bonkers. I got text messages saying the door was open when it was closed, etc. What a mess. Then I had to remind myself, it's ARTIFICIAL intelligence, not real intelligence, I shouldn't have expected more.
If I employed the above scenario without Google, my Homeseer events would handle things just fine. Meanwhile, there are thousands of scientists out there working on AI and I wish them all the best. Bring your best example to the forefront and make our lives that much better for it.