X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: HA Dave on January 29, 2020, 09:19:22 PM
-
The grocery chain Aldi had an off-brand (I think) Atomi modules at the store (seasonal section). I was a two-module package deal (for Christmas light control. One inside and one outdoor module. But they didn't all sell... and now they're clearance priced at 10 Bucks even. That reminded me of the old days of X10 at $5 a module when you bought several.
A great way to try this stuff out.
-
Are these wifi app controlled or are they cloud based? If they can be controlled directly from HG, they would be a nice replacement for appliance modules.
-
Are these wifi app controlled or are they cloud based? If they can be controlled directly from HG, they would be a nice replacement for appliance modules.
I agreed, if they are only controllable via cloud based phone app they might as well give them away for free.
The way these wifi Smart device manufactures are coming and going now a days they could be bricks before you open the package. Unless your able to hack the firmware
-
That is a real concern if they are really a no-name brand. I haven't looked into these though I've seen similar looking ones at Costco so perhaps they are all OEM and link to the same generic cloud app.
-
.... If they can be controlled directly from HG, they would be a nice replacement for appliance modules.
No. It's a cloud-based world on this side of the millennium. Only the old-school, old tech isn't cloud based. Don't forget.... everything is locally controlled... using the switch.
...... if they are only controllable via cloud based phone app they might as well give them away for free.
The way these wifi Smart device manufactures are coming and going now a days they could be bricks before you open the package.
It wasn't that many years ago..... we used to buy boxes of incandescent light bulbs. We did so knowing full well that they would only last a few hundred hours. Then the expensive lights would have to be disposed of and replaced as the were completely UN-repairable.
It is very possible that these modules may fail to function in the very near future. The same can be said for some, or even many, of the various brands of modules sold today. I use enough different brands that it's unlikely my entire system would just crash because of a corporate bankruptcy .... AGAIN.
But at five bucks a module..... they will likely be cheaper than the old light bulbs once used in the very same locations.
Don't forget.... although there are MANY valid forms of Home Automation... lighting control isn't enough for many of us. And without the collective AI smarts only available via the use of Internet connectivity.... it's impossible to have a modern smart home. So far..... I've been able to keep building and improving my automation setup..... without a fee-based plan. And to do so.... I think I can live with another brand-name (or even protocol failure).
It would be nice however.... if some smart code writer created a server based site that would allow various phones, modules, protocols, and control software to integrate. Although Amazon is doing a pretty good job at that anymore. It has all turned into a huge corporate mainstream industry. That wasn't MY idea... or my choice. But I've always believed that exploiting this technology means accepting what is available and working with that.
-
Not sure you got the point, but cool. If you buy a HA device on clearance from a company nobody has heard of and the device only works with their dedicated cloud, then it is pertinent to know that it may not function as it sits in the packaging on the store shelf. If it has local control via an app/etc, then even if the company turns the lights off, it still works to some degree. Saying that it will have local control because you can toggle the light switch is not exactly helpful since you can unplug your desk lamp for each use too. Interesting that a valid question about a device available for sale yields responses suggesting tin foil hats these days. ::)
-
Dave, it should be noted that because something has an internet (cloud) server doesn't mean HG can't control it.
I've controlled several iot devices that have a cloud server via HG.
Interesting that a valid question about a device available for sale yields responses suggesting tin foil hats these days. ::)
rofl
-
Only the old-school, old tech isn't cloud based. Don't forget.... everything is locally controlled... using the switch.
That sounds good until there are two modules behind the couch, the cloud bursts, and there are three 250 pounders sitting on your couch, eating Cheetos and guzzling Heinekens, waiting for the lights and the popcorn cart to come on. rofl
-
Not sure you got the point, but cool. If you buy a HA device on clearance .........
I got your point.
Dave, it should be noted that because something has an internet (cloud) server doesn't mean HG can't control it.
I've controlled several iot devices......
Yeah. If your into "control" (We've had this same discussion before). It is super easy to control.... But Home Automation isn't just light control anymore (although admittedly these modules won't do much more than that). And NEVER will they have a remote control with a bunch of (labeled) buttons controlling lights around the house.
And YES.... it's completely true.... these and EVERY electronic device in my home... in short order (or should I say shorter order than I'd like) will fail. It's always a crap shoot with such things. But at 5 bucks a module... that's penny ante. I had no idea if my WiFi would reach the outside modules till I tried. It does.
And if a WiFi device that actually DOES have a Amazon skill, and actual working servers are a high-risk no-name (which they are).... what does that make systems that don't even have that? I really wish X10 would grow up and make an add-on Wifi device with an app and an Amazon skill.
-
That sounds good until there are two modules behind the couch, the cloud bursts, and there are three 250 pounders sitting on your couch, eating Cheetos and guzzling Heinekens, waiting for the lights and the popcorn cart to come on. rofl
I do have a nice-sized popcorn machine (not on a module) in the theater! But the automated lights in the theater can also be controlled locally (wall switches - easily accessible). However.... most of the media I view in the Theater now-a-days is streamed via the Interweb. So you are correct. Everything always fails at the worse possible time.
-
I really wish X10 would grow up and make an add-on Wifi device with an app and an Amazon skill.
Why does it have to be branded X10? Someone else has already done exactly that for X10 (and more) for 30% less than X10's misguided attempt.
-
Yeah. If your into "control" (We've had this same discussion before). It is super easy to control.... But Home Automation isn't just light control anymore (although admittedly these modules won't do much more than that). And NEVER will they have a remote control with a bunch of (labeled) buttons controlling lights around the house.
I don't know why you would want to buy a device that is designed to control an appliance if you didn't want to control that appliance. Silly me. :'
-
Why does it have to be branded X10? Someone else has already done exactly that for X10 (and more) for 30% less than X10's misguided attempt.
Because.... it is impossible for X10 to profit from the success of it competitors. And without profits X10 will once again close its doors.
-
I don't know why you would want to buy a device that is designed to control an appliance if you didn't want to control that appliance. Silly me. :'
No. Not silly.
But every light switch ever made is “controlled”. I’d prefer the convenience of “automation”. Currently.... Smart Home technology includes IA.... which is pretty cool stuff.
-
Why does it have to be branded X10? Someone else has already done exactly that for X10 (and more) for 30% less than X10's misguided attempt.
Because.... it is impossible for X10 to profit from the success of it competitors. And without profits X10 will once again close its doors.
But that's inevitable. Even if they fully developed the WM100, the market for X10 products isn't big enough to sustain the company. They'd need a total product overhaul and major marketing push to become relevant again. Even Insteon, which is struggling, did that by making their products "dual band" to overcome PLC issues. There's little need to buy anything directly from X10 today as it's all available on eBay for half the cost. As much as I'd like to see them succeed it won't happen without a major investment.
-
As much as I'd like to see them succeed it won't happen without a major investment.
Not just investment. There seems to be a vested interest in producing just what they currently sell. Years ago I tried to transition the XTB-IIR and XTB-ANR to X10 for production. I sent samples of both units for their evaluation. I was asked to justify to China why they should produce them when they were already manufacturing their own repeater and noise reducer. I also designed a tiny module that allows a 2-wire X10 switch to operate CFL or LED lights when no neutral is available. It is an active circuit that emulates a tungsten filament, but consumes virtually no power. That seems to have died on the vine.
Jeff
-
It seems that the tail (China) is wagging the dog (X10)! :'
-
But that's inevitable. .......... As much as I'd like to see them succeed it won't happen without a major investment.
Not just investment. There seems to be a vested interest in producing just what they currently sell.
Jeff
And that's (there is) the problem. Few businesses can remain static in the way they do business. Everything is always in a state of change. With technology related products the change is dynamic. I don't know anyone in/at X10 (new or old)... or who the next owners may be. But I do know two complete different lines of products are NOT unusual. X10 could embrace the new and still sell the old as well.
Sooner would have been better... I agree. But I hate the idea of X10 coming crashing down... yet once again.
BTW.... I was in Sam's Club today. And just maybe that no name Atomi el-cheapie stuff might be around a while after all.
-
BTW.... I was in Sam's Club today. And just maybe that no name Atomi el-cheapie stuff might be around a while after all.
Not at that price! rofl
-
BTW.... I was in Sam's Club today. And just maybe that no name Atomi el-cheapie stuff might be around a while after all.
Yep, the modules will be around alright but will they still be on the shelves at Sams club or working in someones setup or door stops. rofl
-
Yep, the modules will be around alright but will they still be on the shelves at Sams club or working in someones setup or door stops. rofl
Maybe. But then again.... are you comparing this outfit (with resources that got the worlds largest retailers attention) with X10? Did you notice that those plugs even have built-in, always on, USB device chargers. Worth the cost of the modules even if they fail. For anyone that wants to try out AI, and/or Wifi automation.... cheap admission. They compare well with the price of light bulbs.
-
Nope wifi outlet modules are a dime a dozen. You can get usb plugs at the dollar store for just that too.
I've played with many wifi devices over the years and my x10 modules are far more reliable.( belive it or not). These aren't inexpensive no name modules they are however a little know brand name. They're nothing special as far as I'm concerned anything can be made to work with a voice assistants now. The esp chip and boards inside these are just pennies. If I were to go the wifi route I'd stick with my Wemo or Sonoff (which other then my solar tracker sit in boxes).
-
.......The esp chip and boards inside these are just pennies.
Exactly! Every maker of any and everything electronics relayed is producing these device (I would imagine through a 3rd party vendor). And EVERY business of any type/size has servers. So the apps/skills/etc. is all a nothing burger for cost and expertise. Like USB and phone accessorizes found in Dollar Stores.... these devices are everywhere.
What makes Home Automation "Automated" is the software.... or in the modern world... the server software. And what your still calling voice assistance.... has long been a product integrator.
These items aren't selling by the pallet, or even the truck, ship, or warehouse full. This is now a multi-BILLION dollar industry.
-
These cost about the same amount as Sonoff stuff and have questions. Sonoff are still around after several years and have a community that has developed aftermarket firmware to extend their capabilities. If iTead shuts down their severs, you can use the modules however you want. IMO, if I were going to invest $5/module to play with WiFi control, Sonoff would be my route. I wouldn't buy clearance cloud devices, but I guess I'm the one that's a boomer.
-
Sonoff also has tons of different modules,outlets,switches even controled usb adaptors and other devices. Each time I check their site they seem to have someting new. rofl
-
As long as they remain ESP based, they will remain an open source option for those who want more or reach end of cloud life.
-
Sonoff also has tons of different modules,outlets,switches even controled usb adaptors and other devices.
The fact that they offer a temperature and humidity sensor to monitor real-world conditions is interesting.
Jeff
-
As much as I'd like to see them succeed it won't happen without a major investment.
Not just investment. There seems to be a vested interest in producing just what they currently sell. Years ago I tried to transition the XTB-IIR and XTB-ANR to X10 for production. I sent samples of both units for their evaluation. I was asked to justify to China why they should produce them when they were already manufacturing their own repeater and noise reducer. I also designed a tiny module that allows a 2-wire X10 switch to operate CFL or LED lights when no neutral is available. It is an active circuit that emulates a tungsten filament, but consumes virtually no power. That seems to have died on the vine.
Jeff
Desperate to see someone with the technical knowledge required to propagate the technology being ignored in favour of those who think they understand the marketplace. They were never going to succeed with their WM100 in isolation and clearly whatever they were thinking of next, well that ship has well and truly sailed. So many alternative solutions available now.
Such a shame to see your solution for the use of CFL and LED lighting ignored. Effectively they have managed to kill off any hope of an X10 resurrection and as @bkenobi states those left using X10 have an ample supply of spares via eBay now that users are junking their X10 setup so whatever X10 wise arrives on the market I don't see anyone queuing up to buy it.
-
IMO, if I were going to invest $5/module to play with WiFi control, Sonoff would be my route.
SONOFF also makes Zigbee controlled Smart Plugs. Works with SmartThings, or.... (without another Hub) Amazon Echo Plus. I use some Zigbee stuff here already. And the Sonoff are a decently low price.
-
IKEA has Zigbee smart plugs for $10 (Tradfri) that are said to act as repeaters as well. I just picked up a couple to try out with my Smartenit Harmony.
-
IKEA has Zigbee smart plugs for $10 (Tradfri) that are said to act as repeaters as well. I just picked up a couple to try out with my Smartenit Harmony.
Great news. I have some Zigbee and the "plus" Echo device which has Zigbee control. Works great. Thanks!