X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bkenobi on March 22, 2020, 01:56:00 AM
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I'm planning on updating my garage door openers at some point. Costco has the Genie with Aladdin Connect built in for a pretty fair price right now. I'm wondering if anyone knows the Aladdin Connect and whether it's capable of local control or simply cloud based? I'm not worried all that much about remote control (away from home) of my garage door but it might be nice to control from HG locally. I haven't found any details yet with simple google searches but will continue to investigate if no one knows.
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Im not sure if youve checked Github yet but there is a plugin for homebridge there which you may beable to modify for HG https://github.com/iAnatoly/homebridge-aladdin-connect-garage-door
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I remembered reading a thread on the smart things forum for garage door intergration. You might find this thread interesting as it does indicate Aladdin does have an Api and one user was able to control the opener using restful commands. https://community.smartthings.com/t/genie-aladdin-garage-door/142856/27
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I've been using the Chamberlain line of automated garage door opener (MyQ) for some time... 2-3 years now, I think.
I am not sure what your terms mean... exactly. Even NON-motorized doors are of course... locally controlled.
To the best-of-my-knowledge ... no garage doors work exclusively as cloud appliances. The addition of "phone app control" merely works as an additional remote (along with the old RF remotes). Of course... current technology does mean that phone/app control is via the web/cloud... that IS the way things work now-a-days.
I have only used the "remote feature" to allow entry while my wife and I were out (for my step-daughter) just one time. But we have both been notified of the door being accidentally left open more than once. That is the most notable and IMHO the most valued app/web/cloud feature.
But now... Amazon is offering provisional entry/delivery into garages. And... I am prepared for that too... with two (one cloud connected) cameras in the garage.
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I assumed that the function of a garage door was pretty self explanatory. I didn't realize that it was unclear that the door itself operates at the location it is installed. And in fact, the motor that is at the heart of the garage door opener also performs its tasks (both raising and lowering of the door) in very close proximity to the door it is opening/closing. There are also typically 1 or 2 other methods to operate garage doors when "automating" them. Beyond a person manually lifting them, the garage door opener assists the user by providing the force and thus work needed to transition from the open to close state and visa versa. To operate the opener, the user can either press a button on the wall (typically) which can be located at a man door entrance or perhaps by the door itself. Many if not all doors also have a RF component that allows for a remote control within some finite distance (perhaps as much as half a mile in my experience). This allows the user to open the door at the push of a button on a remote transmitter. Some doors also have a keypad that can be mounted to the outside of the structure which sends a signal to open after the correct combination has been pressed.
In my case, I am looking at a garage door opener that has "home automation" features built in. The opener can connect to "WiFi" and then be utilized through the internets via a cloud. I have read that some devices are able to provide what is commonly called "local control" which means to be able to operate it "locally". In this sense, the person would be connected to the "WiFi". This would not require the internet of things to be involved and all commands would remain "local" to the "WiFi" network.
tl;dr: I want to control the garage door opener locally on the WiFi rather tan relying on the cloud.
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Understand that you want local WiFi control and NOT cloud based. There are WiFi and Ethernet controlled relay boards that can do just that. An example of one is at https://ebay.to/2Uj7EsR for $20. You can access it via your router's WiFi using port forwarding and it has its own server to operate the relays which you can wire to a garage remote fob to control one or two doors. Most of the WiFi ones I've looked at require an app and the cloud.
My Stargate has an Ethernet connection set up as a static IP address with port forwarding so I can access it from anywhere and operate relays that are wired to the switch pads in a garage door opener fob. I've set up the relays to go on for 1 second to transmit from the fob to the doors (two relays, one for each door). The above device can do the same thing.
Because the Stargate receives and can act upon X10 commands I can also control it with Alexa using my Smartenit Harmony P2 device.
When I say "Alexa open double" the P2 sends N4-ON and the Stargate uses that as a trigger to operate the relay. When I say "Alexa close double" the P2 sends N4-OFF. To prevent inadvertently opening or closing the door I have a magnetic alarm contact on each door connected to digital inputs on the Stargate so the open/close status is known and used as a conditional so if N4-OFF is received and the door is already closed the relay will not be triggered. The Stargate will also close either door if left open for more than 15 minutes after the alarm is set and text me whenever the doors are opened. I'm sure you can interface to HG to do the same.
The doors are named 'Double' and 'Single' and sometimes Alexa hears 'Bible' when I say 'Double' which results in a random passage being recited rather than the door operating. rofl
My Doors are Liftmasters with the MyQ hub. The MyQ hub is compatible with Google and IFTTT but not Alexa. They forced Amazon to delete the unofficial MyQ skill that worked great but wasn't theirs. The Google and IFTTT compatibility are "free initially" which indicates that they'll start charging at some point. The app works fine but is cloud based.
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Although both links I provided deal with Alexa control prior to a skill being created. They use the Aladdin API which allows local control using restful commands to its wifi address. I'd suggest posting on the homegenie.club site as it is most likely someone has already created a HG program for the garage door opener
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...... I am looking at a garage door opener that has "home automation" features built in. The opener can connect to "WiFi" and then be utilized through the internets via a cloud. I have read that some devices are able to provide what is commonly called "local control" which means to be able to operate it "locally". In this sense, the person would be connected to the "WiFi". This would not require the internet of things to be involved and all commands would remain "local" to the "WiFi" network.
tl;dr: I want to control the garage door opener locally on the WiFi rather tan relying on the cloud.
Chamberlains MyQ setup does NOT have the WiFi connectivity built-in to the door opener itself. Instead... they make/provide a specialized unit/HUB (https://www.chamberlain.com/myq-smart-garage-hub/p/MYQ-G0301-E) (similar to the way Ring devices work) which acts as a go-between between the door opener and your WiFi router.
Currently.... 5G is not yet available in my area (a city). The bandwidth that had once been dedicated to that new newfangled television thingy.... was decidedly wasted on what has become such a simple technology. So TV's were switched to digital and that bandwidth re-purposed for broadband (AKA 5G).
So... currently broadband (AKA the Internet) comes into my home like phones used to.... via a "wire".... then I use a device(s) that changes and exchanges the wired "data packets". I own my own router... and have some degree of control over the packets that get exchanged within my own internal network.
BUT.... eventually..... I believe.... I will just be buying 5G very much in the same way I currently buy phone service (via RF transmission) . The idea of a redundant piece of equipment between a device and the Web already sounds kind of old fashion. After all... I can already use my phone as a hot-spot. Or buy an always connected ipad that doesn't need my home broadband.
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...... I am looking at a garage door opener that has "home automation" features built in. The opener can connect to "WiFi" and then be utilized through the internets via a cloud. I have read that some devices are able to provide what is commonly called "local control" which means to be able to operate it "locally". In this sense, the person would be connected to the "WiFi". This would not require the internet of things to be involved and all commands would remain "local" to the "WiFi" network.
tl;dr: I want to control the garage door opener locally on the WiFi rather tan relying on the cloud.
Chamberlains MyQ setup does NOT have the WiFi connectivity built-in to the door opener itself. Instead... they make/provide a specialized unit/HUB (https://www.chamberlain.com/myq-smart-garage-hub/p/MYQ-G0301-E) (similar to the way Ring devices work) which acts as a go-between between the door opener and your WiFi router.
That's the one I was referring to but it's operated through a cloud based server which he'd prefer not to use. IF the MyQ server were to be hacked I suppose the door could be operated so the solution I mentioned above - or something like it - would limit the cloud exposure to only his router. The Genie Aladdin app is cloud based too. All that said, for myself, I'm not terribly concerned about having the garage door in the cloud. I only set it up the way I did after MyQ stopped working with Alexa. There are many ways to skin the cat.
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..... There are many ways to skin the cat.
I agree. NOT that I have ever literally removed the fur covering from one of those things.
Yes... at some point point in time... Russian hackers may find a way to open our garage doors. But it would be a guess (just a guess)... that it might also be about the same time they learn how to "transport" directly into our garages. But wouldn't they just "beam out" the contents of our garages? Or... just use their "Replicators" to make cars?
I don't think home automation is about the treatment of people who concern themselves with future shock of technology advances. I know... some people are concerned about the evil, scary, cloud. But I can't fix that.
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Wanting local control has nothing to do with Russian hackers though it might concern some. It has to do with being able to use the garage door opener with the functions I purchased it with beyond the life of the manufacturer's cloud system. I doubt Aladdin Connect will last as long as my garage door opener. The one on my smaller door was originally on the double door and that makes it somewhere around 30 years old. The double door has one that's really a bit undersized and it's still on the order of 20yo. I expect to be able to use a garage door opener for up to 20 years rather than the 3 that the cloud is likely to function. My refrigerator is also 15yo (and the garage fridge is probably 20yo). Smart fridges will have a firmware fault in the next couple years and require a new BIOS in order to keep my beer cold. I expect to use household appliances for a lot longer than the cloud will last...
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........ I expect to be able to use a garage door opener for up to 20 years rather than the 3 that the cloud is likely to function. My refrigerator is also 15yo (and the garage fridge is probably 20yo). Smart fridges will have a firmware fault in the next couple years and require a new BIOS in order to keep my beer cold. I expect to use household appliances for a lot longer than the cloud will last...
You might be correct. I dated a woman with psychic abilities many years ago. Her predictions were always wrong. But... I am sure YOU must be using a more scientific method of "future modeling". Maybe you could share that with the forum sometime. I know I'd love to include the date and time of predicted (yet unscheduled) future events into my Home Automation setup. Currently.... my setup can't even predict tomorrows weather with any real accuracy.
I don't know if there are forums that deal with future shock syndrome's. But those forums may have better answers about the scary events yet to be known to happen (in a future time-line).
Everyone here... KNOWS (now if not before the old X10 closed)... that modern technology is always in a state of change and evolution. There is NOT ONE piece of modern high technology available today... that anyone can guarantee will remain viable tomorrow. OR... that any user of such tech... will be here tomorrow to use it. What is... is what is. We have what we have. It's all very circular.
Discussing such scenarios would be akin to discussing if Rocky could beat-up Rambo.
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I think bkenobi's point, with which I concur, is that even assuming no undue security risks of using the cloud, there are some things that you just don't want to have to replace simply because a company has moved on or failed. If the device will continue to function without the cloud that's OK but I don't want to make a significant investment in an appliance that MUST be connected to the cloud to function - particularly if I can create those functions for myself or don't even care about them. Never in my life have I felt any need to communicate with my fridge, dishwasher or washer/dryer. Despite the economic package designed to keep people and companies working right now, some companies will fail or put operations that are not profitable on the back burner - things like cloud based servers that generate little or no revenue. I'm not saying the cloud is bad - to the contrary, I think it's great and I use it but my beer will stay cold without it. >!
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Pretty amazing to think that in order to buy a standard appliance these days, one must first add a notification to their HA setup for 2:14AM on August 29. But then, since everything is moving forward we must just learn to adapt. I am sure some of us will be unable to comply, but that's just the way the future is.
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....... If the device will continue to function without the cloud that's OK but I don't want to make a significant investment in an appliance that MUST be connected to the cloud to function - particularly if I can create those functions for myself .....
You must be far more prosperous than myself. I mean... sure I have a generator and I could muster-up an in-home server. But to live as a one-man island 24/7 would require some serious cash.
Never in my life have I felt any need to communicate with my fridge, dishwasher or washer/dryer.
Really? And you have no desire to have an AI smart home? Weird...
I'm not saying the cloud is bad - to the contrary, I think it's great and I use it but my beer will stay cold without it.
You're doing MUCH better than myself. Here in America where I live... we are totally dependent on web/cloud based communications. Even our power grids are cloud dependent, along with radio, TV, phone, and of course internet. As a matter of FACT... we couldn't even keep our beer cold (for very long) without our cloud-based technologies.
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Pretty amazing to think that in order to buy a standard appliance these days, one must first add a notification to their HA setup for 2:14AM on August 29. But then, since everything is moving forward we must just learn to adapt. I am sure some of us will be unable to comply, but that's just the way the future is.
I once knew a man who told me how he resisted the idea of SLICED BREAD. No joke! Sliced bread, has been around for less than a century. The first automatically sliced commercial loaves were produced on July 6, 1928.
But even though many (if not most) people who lived in the city's had already taken to buying "bakers bread" instead of baking their own. For many having the bread pre-sliced and put in a bag... was that one step TOO FAR.
It's a long sleep-inducing story about how human brains work that explains why we REALLY resist change (AKA: progress). And training to recognize such things... requires more than a little effort. But.. at least we're buying sliced bread... right?
Just imagine those farmers from 2-3 generations ago... who could produce EVERYTHING needed to fuel plow horses... yet invested in iron machines that required fuel shipped in from who-knows-where.
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Sadly Dave, you missed the entire point of my post. All I'm saying is that I don't want an expensive appliance to become prematurely obsolete because the manufacturer decides to figuratively pull the plug from afar (i.e. IRIS from Lowe's). My fridge, washer, dryer and dishwasher don't need any input from me or the cloud. I set the temp on the fridge the day it arrived and press the start button on the others. Now if AI can actually LOAD the washer, dryer and dishwasher and put things away when it's done, I'll sign right up! AI is great - just watch who you're buying it from. And cloud based doesn't equal AI. AI learns and figures things out. A lot of cloud based services have nothing to with AI.
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Lets not also forget.
A manufacturer decides to do an automatic firmware update and BRICKS the device. So bad it can not be easily fixed. I saw a reference to a bunch of Google speakers being bricked by an automatic update and they didn't want to repair them if out of warranty. That they quietly changed their minds. :'
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Dave you probably already have several servers running in your home and don't even realize it or making full use of them. What many of us wish to do is make better use of our existing (at home) servers to be less reliant on big brother.
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Pretty amazing to think that in order to buy a standard appliance these days, one must first add a notification to their HA setup for 2:14AM on August 29. But then, since everything is moving forward we must just learn to adapt. I am sure some of us will be unable to comply, but that's just the way the future is.
I still reckon that low tech solution I mentioned to you would solve your dilemma and provide you a lifetime of satisfaction. Just make sure you can provide the extra amperage required if the device starts playing up.
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You must be far more prosperous than myself. I mean... sure I have a generator and I could muster-up an in-home server. But to live as a one-man island 24/7 would require some serious cash.
Prosperity has nothing to do with it and it's unlikely that FPL (my power provider) will go out of business any time soon. I'm not sure why you'd conflate industrial/commercial cloud services with consumer product support. A $5 Pi Zero is a server as is my 20 year old Stargate. One of the differences between the Smartenit Harmony P2 and C2 is that the C2 can be a server for cloudless local control. If I remotely control my garage door through my Stargate, I'm connected to my own server but if I use the MyQ app I'm reliant on the manufacturer's cloud server. When MyQ arbitrarily prevented an Alexa skill from working I could no longer use Alexa with it. With Alexa I'm still using the cloud but I think Amazon has quite a vested interest in keeping that alive and robust for the foreseeable future. It's not that the cloud is 'bad' or 'scary' - to the contrary, it's not - it's that the companies offering the services may not do so responsibly. Caveat Emptor!
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Dave you probably already have several servers running in your home and don't even realize it or making full use of them. ....
Actually as a former (retired) network administrator on one of the most secure networks on the planet.... I'd bet I have a much greater understanding than you think.
But every coin has at least two sides.... and dice have SIX. This isn't a binary problem... and it isn't a technology problem. This is likely more an issue about control... with a little reflection of future shock. All the MANY sorted arguments I've read here about why current new technologies should be avoided move, dodge, and morph. Because the end result isn't (and doesn't) solve problems. The solutions always ONLY avoid the fear of a lack of control. But avoiding tech... is never a real solution.
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.....I'm not sure why you'd conflate industrial/commercial cloud services with consumer product support.
You ask me the above.... like you actually believe these things exist in totally different universes. Then you post: A $5 Pi Zero is a server as is my 20 year old Stargate.
Your logic seems to be a moving target.
IfI use the MyQ app I'm reliant on the manufacturer's cloud server. When MyQ arbitrarily prevented an Alexa skill from working I could no longer use Alexa with it. With Alexa I'm still using the cloud but I think Amazon has quite a vested interest in keeping that alive and robust for the foreseeable future. It's not that the cloud is 'bad' or 'scary' - to the contrary, it's not - it's that the companies offering the services may not do so responsibly.
Yes! Every grown-up knows.... we can't know the future. But we'd be foolish to fear it.
Caveat Emptor!
Yeah. Or as we say in America "el comprador tenga cuidado" (buyer beware). It's your money. If you can't trust the seller... don't buy from them. If you don't trust in the future of home automation..... I don't know what to tell you.
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..... What many of us wish to do is make better use of our existing (at home) servers to be less reliant on big brother.
Big Broth·er
/ˈˌbiɡ ˈbrəT͟Hər/
noun
a person or organization exercising total control over people's lives.
You know of course... I am an old military man. And I am pretty sure "big brother" can't be resisted with home servers.
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Anyone been reading about how the 'net is slowing due to everyone self isolating with Netflix? "System providers are having trouble balancing loads" was one line I recall. Kinda like the grid on a 100 degree summer day. Nope, I would not have another totally cloud based device either. Fact is, I will not be surprised the day my X10 Willie 100 goes dumb.
Sorry Authinx, but your "new product performance" and total dependency on the China developer, make me wonder how long your doors will remain open and my Willie will still work. (do not read in to that anymore than what is said). rofl
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I've noticed occasional slow responses from Alexa. Sometimes the light comes on before the confirmation tone but mostly a delay in execution of up to 2 seconds. Web surfing seems normal overall and no issues streaming.
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Same thing with "Hey Google" recently. I've had it just sit there spinning for a couple minutes until I gave in and typed the search manually.
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...... Fact is, I will not be surprised the day my X10 Willie 100 goes dumb.
Sorry Authinx, but your "new product performance" and total dependency on the China developer, make me wonder how long your doors will remain open and my Willie will still work. (do not read in to that anymore than what is said). rofl
I am NOT a young man myself. I have a small handful of items I've owned... for the long haul (like my Cub Scout knife). But virtually EVERYTHING I've owned over the years have cycled through the normal progression from prized possession.... to recycled material (or landfill trash). For me.... that even includes 22 automobiles.
Even my prized and often praised CM15A ActiveHome Pro's (I actually have 3).... have gone from awesome... to an interface item. Nothing lasts forever. And whereas Home Automation was once a very niche hobby that is no-longer the case. It's true, Home Automation is in a golden age of AI and change. And the Internet itself is also changing into it's next phase as well. You are absolutely correct in the changes you see happening around you.
But the world keeps on turning. We can't stop or remove ourselves from these changes. This Home Automation lifestyle demands an ability to learn, adapt, and change. Sometimes we outgrow our interests.... other times our interests outgrow us.
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Even my prized and often praised CM15A ActiveHome Pro's (I actually have 3).... have gone from awesome... to an interface item. Nothing lasts forever.
Just a reminder that we are discussing a garage door opener which will not last forever (the ones installed are probably 20-30 years old). I wouldn't say any garage door opener is "awesome" but it should be able to open/close a door when the person is either at the button on the house or in a vehicle approaching the door. Anything beyond that is a bonus, but those are the key basic requirements for it to be considered a garage door opener to me. For some reason you think that the stance such a device does is not required to be cloud enabled makes someone need a tin foil hat and that they reject the power grid etc. Seems a bit of a leap to me as there is a vast ocean between the two positions. And if you read and think about other positions presented here, basically every statement presented by all of the users has been the same...cloud is ok/good/great but a major appliance should continue to function in the basic way it was designed (fridge/washer/drier/garage door opener/etc) when the cloud goes offline. Seems there are some cognition issues somewhere along the line. Either that or HA Dave has a financial stake in Alexa's and Siri's success.
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..... I wouldn't say any garage door opener is "awesome" but it should be able to open/close a door when the person is either at the button on the house or in a vehicle approaching the door.
And as mentioned in the 1st reply post... virtually EVERY garage door sold has such local control.
.... For some reason you think that the stance such a device does is not required to be cloud enabled makes someone need a tin foil hat and that they reject the power grid etc.
Yes. That is correct. In today's world... things like the Internet, Blue Tooth, WiFi, Streaming, and yes "Cloud"... aren't just trendy words. They ARE at the center of the modern industrialized world.
HA Dave has a financial stake in Alexa's and Siri's success.
Yes. Correct again. I'd say EVERY American has a vested interest in the success of these American based mega-giants. If America lags behind in the global progress forward in technology we may suffer now... and for generations to follow.
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Based on your marketing here, you may have single handedly converted as many as 3 new users to Amazon Prime members. Congrats!
Tbf, I think most people are already prime members for either the streaming or free shipping, but go ahead and put it in your books anyway. Nobody will notice.
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Based on your marketing here, you may have single handedly converted as many as 3 new users to Amazon Prime members. Congrats!
Tbf, I think most people are already prime members for either the streaming or free shipping, but go ahead and put it in your books anyway. Nobody will notice.
rofl :)% Amazon announced that it now has more than 150 million paid Prime members worldwide. And it was all likely by word-of-mouth suggestions from Amazon users..... ALL OF WHICH probably stemmed from my recommendations. rofl :)%
The original Luddites were merely self-interested, murderous, thugs. Today's modern Luddites seem to be fearfully paranoid about the power of free markets. And of course how free markets tend to create large successful corporations (temporarily). I applaud the success of Amazon. Not that I genuinely approve of the Amazon model (not the one I would have created). But it is the one that seems to work best... for almost everyone involved (for now).
Free markets have always scared a segment of society that feels disassociated (from the rest of society). And there will always be those among us, who would drag the entire culture back into caves. It's all normal.
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:o ??? ::) :' >*<
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A-w-w-w ALRIGHT! I CONFESS!
I am a closet Luddite. HA Dave has suspected it for a long time and has hammered away at me to come out (of the 1800's). I can't keep living this secret life any more. I am going to go buy some WeMo's. ;D
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A-w-w-w ALRIGHT! I CONFESS!
I am a closet Luddite. HA Dave has suspected it for a long time
If that's what you think I've suspected you've COMPLETELY missed the point.
Just like The Dog Whisperer (Cesar Millan) knows how dogs think... so does countless other dog trainers (and many plain old dog lovers). They know and understand dogs weaknesses and strengths.
And every human who has ever cared to learn... knows how people think. Currently (the American) government has spent a fortune trying to get the edge on how populations think... and how that can be exploited. Are you a "closet Luddite"? Let me point out... no one has a "special brain" that excludes the Luddite thought processes. And if you AREN'T making an effort to recognize those thoughts and deal with them as a grown adult... with purposely directed thought. Why would you call that a "closet" Luddite?
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For someone implying all these thing about others being luddites, you are very well versed. Interesting. Maybe you can suggest Amazon in your next meeting that marketing tale the same acusitory approach with the puppy masses.
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For someone implying all these thing about others being luddites, you are very well versed. Interesting. Maybe you can suggest Amazon in your next meeting that marketing tale the same acusitory approach with the puppy masses.
Often times..... like with your post above. I have no idea as to what you are trying to convey/post/say. Although I think you might be attempting to insult me. But your words don’t make sense.
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A-w-w-w ALRIGHT! I CONFESS!
I am a closet Luddite. HA Dave has suspected it for a long time
If that's what you think I've suspected you've COMPLETELY missed the point.
Just like The Dog Whisperer (Cesar Millan) knows how dogs think... so does countless other dog trainers (and many plain old dog lovers). They know and understand dogs weaknesses and strengths.
And every human who has ever cared to learn... knows how people think. Currently (the American) government has spent a fortune trying to get the edge on how populations think... and how that can be exploited. Are you a "closet Luddite"? Let me point out... no one has a "special brain" that excludes the Luddite thought processes. And if you AREN'T making an effort to recognize those thoughts and deal with them as a grown adult... with purposely directed thought. Why would you call that a "closet" Luddite?
Uh...my comment was supposed to be humorous. Guess I missed the target. Next time I will use the proper emoji rofl
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You're not the only one misinterpreted around these parts. :'
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Uh...my comment was supposed to be humorous. Guess I missed the target. Next time I will use the proper emoji rofl
Sorry. My apologizes... I over reacted. I hate it when I fail to see the humor.
Recent events.... of a far more deadly-serious nature... just hammers home (to ME) the human inability to understand... or recognize... a paradigm shift. Things drastically change around us.... and yet good, serious, intelligent people keep trying to pound the new square pegs into the old round holes. Some people just can NOT change. Maybe it's a gene of something.
On the bright side of the current pandemic (see I do have a sense of humor).... much of the USA government spying and attempts to learn large group control... is proving to be a complete failure. I'd even guess... much of the digital infrastructure already in use... to track and monitor nearly every 1st world human may not be considered worthwhile in future budgets. So... just think of all the tin foil some people might save.