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🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: WaynesWhirled on February 09, 2022, 03:46:47 PM

Title: Thought I would replace old WS467 with WS469; wiring help needed.
Post by: WaynesWhirled on February 09, 2022, 03:46:47 PM
So I pulled the old WS467 out, and it just has two wires (black and blue), which were connected to black and white in the wall, respectively.  I know white should be the neutral, but I am not sure what the wiring looks like on the other end.

The WS469 has four wires: black (hot), white (neutral), blue (switched) and red (for 3-way connection).  Any idea if I can even connect this?  I assume some intelligence in the switch is driven by power, so it needs the black AND white, then switches the blue.  Did the WS467 just not have any internal power need for anything?

Any advice appreciated; thanks!
Title: Re: Thought I would replace old WS467 with WS469; wiring help needed.
Post by: Brian H on February 09, 2022, 04:02:17 PM
You have a switch loop and the white is not neutral.

It may have a Black painted on strip or a piece of black tape on it.
In the fixture you will probably find the Line connected to the white wire to the switch and the black from the switch on the fixtures line connection. The lights neutral will also be connected in the fixture.

Since the WS467 stole power through the load. You didn't need a neutral at the switches location. You may have seen a slightly dimmer light with the switch as it an had volt drop internally for its own power.

The WS469 has an on off type relay in it and needed a real neutral (for power) along with the line and load connection.
So from the switches location. You would need three wires. A Line Power, Neutral power and a Load wire to control the light. Four if you used the optional three way trigger red.
Title: Re: Thought I would replace old WS467 with WS469; wiring help needed.
Post by: WaynesWhirled on February 10, 2022, 08:45:28 AM
Thanks so much for the info!  That all seems spot on, and there was even what looked like some black Sharpie marker on the end of the white "neutral" (which is not neutral, I now know) wire.

One other slightly different question, since you seem pretty knowledgeable:  I went ahead and swapped the broken WS467 for another one from another location, and out the WS469 there because that j-box had the appropriate wiring (it's a 100 year old house with a variety of wiring types, unfortunately).  Now the "new" one is flaky in being remotely controlled (I use the old school button pad with 8 sets of buttons).  I did see an article on X-10 signal quality and am just wondering of the quality of the wire-nutted connection can affect the signal?  I am going to take it apart and make sure the connection are super twisted and solid, but I thought I would ask.

Thanks again for your response, and describing my situation exactly!
Title: Re: Thought I would replace old WS467 with WS469; wiring help needed.
Post by: Brian H on February 10, 2022, 10:38:32 AM
Jeff from JV Digital Engineering has a great set of troubleshooting tutorials that may help.
https://jvde.us/x10-troubleshooting/

His X10 products where a great asset to the X10 community. Most are no longer available.

It maybe possible you have a phase coupling issue. Where the X10 command is on one phase of the incoming power and the switch is on the other phase. Do you know if you have any coupling between the phases. A real rough test if you have a 220V electric oven. Is turn it On and see if anything changes.

Not familiar with school 8 button remote description. If it is a palm pad using X10 RF you may want to move the X10 transceiver module used to converts the X10 RF to a power line signal. To a different location and see if anything changes.
Title: Re: Thought I would replace old WS467 with WS469; wiring help needed.
Post by: JeffVolp on February 10, 2022, 11:11:32 AM
His X10 products where a great asset to the X10 community. Most are no longer available.

Four remain available for now:  XTBR, XTB-232, XTB-523, and XTB-ANR

If anyone wants to take over production of the XTB-IIR, please contact me.  I can provide the PCB Gerber files and programmed PICs.  The parts list and schematic are on line.

Jeff
Title: Re: Thought I would replace old WS467 with WS469; wiring help needed.
Post by: petera on February 10, 2022, 08:36:00 PM
Jeff I mentioned your proposal over on the Homeseer forum a while back. You might want to mention it yourself if you havenít already done so. Itís probably one of the last bastions of active X10 users at this stage.
Title: Re: Thought I would replace old WS467 with WS469; wiring help needed.
Post by: bkenobi on February 10, 2022, 10:54:55 PM
Building one is pretty easy.  But, there is a big difference between soldering on the components and knowing how to design it when those parts stop becoming available.  Even if a new part were sourced, it takes some knowledge to remake the board layout so they can be constructed.  I never understood why either X10 or SmartHome didn't take you up on production when both were selling X10 devices and they are SOOOO much better with your XTB-IIR.  I really hope someone with the proper knowledge can take on your product line!
Title: Re: Thought I would replace old WS467 with WS469; wiring help needed.
Post by: JeffVolp on February 11, 2022, 09:44:38 AM
Building one is pretty easy.  But, there is a big difference between soldering on the components and knowing how to design it when those parts stop becoming available.  Even if a new part were sourced, it takes some knowledge to remake the board layout so they can be constructed.

I have left over inventory of the few parts like the big 3.9uH inductor that have become problematic.  And the PCB has been modified to accept different versions of those problematic components.

Jeff
Title: Re: Thought I would replace old WS467 with WS469; wiring help needed.
Post by: WaynesWhirled on February 11, 2022, 10:29:43 AM
I think I've got this all squared away now; thanks for having such an excellent support community here.

Now if only my house was wired more properly :)