X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: icepick on July 27, 2005, 02:45:47 PM
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I have spent almost 2 hours looking through
Posts and have seen others with similar
problems like mine, but unfortunately, no
real fix.
I have had ActiveHome for about two years
and it has been working great! I upgraded
to ActiveHome Pro a few months ago, and one
of the lights goes on by itself. It is a Pro
Wall Switch - PLW01 with a mind of its own.
It just turns "on". I can turn it off with
no problems, but it will go on by itself
again. I do not have macros or timers
programmed for that particular switch. When
I check the history for that switch, it does
not show any. I changed the House Code, but
still has the problem. I changed the switch
with another, and the problem seemed to have
gone away for a week. Then it came back.
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Do you use any flourescent bulbs - they can
turn back on, on their own
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No.......The bulb is a regular incandecent
bulb, 100W. Besides, it has been working
great for years with the old ActiveHome.
This all started when I upgraded to
ActiveHome Pro. There were no other changes
in the house except for the ActiveHome Pro
upgrade.
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try using your old CM11a as an activty
monitor to see if the CM15A is sending out a
signal to turn on that light
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It doesn't seem to be getting a any signals
from the ActiveHome Pro Interface. I also
disconnected AND unpluged the Interface from
the outlet. The light still went "on" on its
own.
I remember seeing a Post to do
a "modification" the the Wall Switches. I
can't seem to find it. Does anyone know the
link?!
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Any new additions to you home besides the
cm15a? Some devices can make noise that may
false trigger some X10 devices. I have seen
others say their wall switches sometimes do
what you have described. Any other
tranceivers or x10 controllers in the mix? I
has a confused TR16a Phone Responder turn
lights on and off as I dialed my touch tone
phone. Had to reset it by unpluging and
reconnecting it.
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Icepick, I have been plagued with the same
problem with wall switch modules since the
day I first used them years ago. I have
almost totally given up on them as they
randomly turn on apparently from noise on
the power line. Yesterday, during a storm,
the only one I have left in the house turned
on with every lightning flash. I convinced
a friend of mine to try out X10 stuff; he
bought a bunch of wall switches and same
problem. Drives him crazy and I think he
hates me now... He does not have AHP Pro or
any other computer interface.
I doubt very much that it is AHP Pro causing
this. I had the same problem long before
AHP. It is more likely something has
changed in your house or in your neighbour's
house (on the same line transformer), for
instance a new appliance such as a washer or
microwave; anything that might generate
powerline noise.
Power companies like sending signals down
the power line too, and it could be caused
by something they have started...
You can find the schematic at
http://www.laureanno.com/WS467-2.PDF. I
recall someone saying that pins 8 and 9 on
the IC are floating and they are very
susceptible to noise and you could try
connecting these through a 1k resistor to
either plus or minus and see if that helps.
I haven’t tried that but probably will some
day.
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Brian H,
No new additions except for the AHP. No
Transievers, I got rid of them all when I
upgraded to AHP. The whole reason for me to
upgrade was to get rid of the transievers.
I had 3 and wanted to add more modules,
which meant more transievers. Seemed that
AHP was the anwswer to my problems, by
controlling all house codes and eliminating
the transievers. Everything else seems to
be working fine, except for this one wall
switch. I have tried to put another wall
switch in its place only to have it work for
about a week and then turn "on" again by
itself. I only have the AHP Interface and a
five-in-one remote (which the batteries have
been removed). I even took the batteries
out of the motion sensors. Thanks for the
suggestions......
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David L, Thank you for your suggestions.
Unlike you and your friend's problems, mine
started when I upgraded to AHP. Maybe it was
just coincidence. But, I had no problems
with the old AH for over two years. Wind,
thunderstorms, and lightning.....no
problems. Worked great. All I wanted to do
was get rid of all the transievers and be
able to add to my system with a all-in-one
interface. Thought my solution was AHP.
Ever since I installed and started using
AHP, my problems started. (There are other
problems, but this one drives me crazy). I
have replaced the wall switch and after a
week of working fine, it starts to act up
again. I took the switch that was giving me
problems out and put it in another location
in the house. It then worked as normal.
The problem is isolated to the one location.
Tried different hose codes and numbers, but
no luck. You might be right to say that my
neighbors might have added something that is
now causing my interference. But why only
that switch?? I have other modules on the
same circuit and same room room, and the
others are working fine. I need to find the
specific instructions for the wall switch
modification and get my soldering iron out
and do some electrical work. Can't hurt any
at this point. Anyone out there know the
link to the instructions or the exact
procedure for the modification?!?
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Additional information to my problem:
I addressed another module in the same room
to the "same" address as the problem wall
switch. Both are set to C-7. When I came
back home this evening, I found the same
problem wall switch had turned "on" the
lights, but the other module with the same
address did not turn on the other lights.
So if there is noise or a something causing
the wall switch to be fooled into thinking
to turn on, why didn't the other module with
the same address on the same circuit, in the
same room turn on also?!?
This is crazy!
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Additional information to my problem:
I addressed another module in the same room
to the "same" address as the problem wall
switch. Both are set to C-7. When I came
back home this evening, I found the same
problem wall switch had turned "on" the
lights, but the other module with the same
address did not turn on the other lights.
So if there is noise or a something causing
the wall switch to be fooled into thinking
to turn on, why didn't the other module with
the same address on the same circuit, in the
same room turn on also?!?
Checked the history and activity and nothing
was registered.
This is crazy!
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I won't belabour rhe point but you have to
understand that these wall switches come on
from line noise and/or radiated noise
(arcing, lightning) but each one varies in
its sensitivity to any specific noise
spike. There are thousands of different
devices in your neighbourhood that create
millions of different noise spikes on the
line and through the air.
Earlier this summer I installed 2 wall
switches in my cottage up north where I
thought for sure they would work. No AHP
(no computer at the cottage). No neighbours
using X10. They were mounted side by side
in the same electrical box on the same
circuit. Several times a day one or the
other would come on. Never both at the same
time. I replaced them with two others. Same
thing.
I gave up and controlled the lights with
appliance modules and never had the problem
again. Try this “old standby” noise test if
you have a soldering gun handy (has to be a
soldering GUN with the trigger switch – they
generate great transients). Plug the gun in
nearby and click the trigger a few times.
Bet the lamps come on!
I mentioned in my previous post about the
schematic and a hack. Try it! Let me know!
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Icepick
As much as I detest the cm15a with AHP,
your problem it’s not caused by the cm15a +
AHP.
X10 wall switches (and appliance switches
else) have the ability to remember status
even after a power failure:
if switch was on and power failed, when
power is restored the switch will turn
itself on; this is a great feature but
electrical noise ( NOT STRAY X10 CODES )
cause the switch to turn on, the
modification presented by Bartana will
solve the issue:
http://www.geocities.com/ido_bartana/
This problem is random and is location
specific not house code specific.
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David L ......Thanks for the info.........
I will try the soldering iron trick you
described. I have two with triggers, a
Weller and a Radio Shack. I got the
schematics and with Carmine Post, I now have
the exact modification instructions.
I guess that the soldering iron will have
two jobs: 1)Line Tester and 2)Solder Duty
for the Modification :)
I'll let you know how the test and mod goes.
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Carmine, Thanks for the link. Looks like
there are a lot of other mods for the
X10's. A very useful site. I know what
I'll be doing this weekend. I'll let you
how it turns out.
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icepick; Be very carefull when doing the
modification. A soldering gun is really not
suted for soldering small IC pins and PC
Copper Runs. You can easily peel the run off
or overheat the IC. A small soldering iron
with a fine tip is a better choice. A static
proventive one is even better.
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I also have a Butane Soldering Pen with a
small tip. Do you think that will be
suitable?? I have not opened the Wall
Switch yet, so I really don't know how small
everything is. Guess I'll have to make a
judgement call when I see inside.
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Small pc runs and parts. After you get one
apart. I am sure you can guage the iron to
use.
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Icepick, since it sounds like you haven't
done any of this before, let me warn you
that everything in the module runs at 120
volt line potential and is referenced to
the "hot" line, not the neutral. Don't do
anything with it plugged in or you may not
live to regret it. And don't connect any
grounded test intruments or soldering iron
to the circuitry when it's plugged in;
you'll fry it beyond repair.
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I was not planning to work on the Wall
Switch while it was connected, but thanks
for the warning. I have worked on circuit
boards, ECU's, and I/O Multiplex Modules
before, albeit 12v and 24v DC. I am a Auto
Technician. If worse comes to worse, I can
always give the wall switch to our I.T. Dept
to have the resister soldered. They have a
very small soldering station with small
utensils, holding clips, and a 10" round
magnifying glass to make sure they see what
they are doing. Like I said in the previous
post, I'll make a judgement call after I
open it. Thanks again for the "Heads Up".
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Sounds like you have it covered. Hope the
resistor helps. Many say it does. I believe
the floating IC pin is used in other
applications for an ON-OFF function.
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I did the modification outlined on the web
site: http://www.geocities.com/ido_bartana/.
Definitely dealing with very small parts.
One thing worth mentioning is that the
schematic at:
http://www.laureanno.com/WS467-2.PDF is a
bit different than the actual "as built"
switch, and pin numbers #3 through #9 as
listed on the schematic are in the wrong
sequence. Also, the schematic lists the
ground wire as yellow, mine is blue. Maybe
it had to do with the fact that my wall
switch is a Pro model# PLW01 (Ivory). In
any case, pin#9 is directly accross pin#10.
I also found it easier to use a #74 (.0225")
drill bit to enlarge the #9 pin hole on the
circuit board. Then I inserted the Resister
in the #9 pin hole and soldered it easily. I
decided to insulate the entire resister with
heat-shrink tubing so that there was no
possible way the resister would make contact
with anything else. Soldered the other end
to ground (pin #18) and started the re-
assembling and re-installation. I finished
in about an hour. Verified that the light
and wall switch was still working fine.
I finished yesterday at about 4:00 PM, and
as of this posting the light has NOT come
on!! The modification works GREAT!
Thanks to everyone for helping me and
providing me with the valuable links!!
By the way....David L, I tried the soldering
iron trigger trick you told about, but
nothing happened. In any case, I would
recommend you try the mod, you won't be
sorry. Thanks again!
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I have seen some errors in schematics from
third parties. Sometimes the unit is a
different revision. If memory serves me one
of the tranceivers has three different
revisions. Glad it worked so far and I think
it will be much better for you.
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Icepick, that is great news. Please post
again in a week or so and let us know if it
fixed it 100% or if you still get some
unwanted turn-ons.
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Sounds like a great idea !... Anyone got a
link for an appliance module schematic and
what to do to make it "forget" its' last
state. I have a pool pump that will not
always spin up after a power failure. As you
can imagine, it HUMS until tripped off by
heat overload... If I am away, that is BAD
BAD... so I;d love to FIX an appliance module
to reset to OFF after a failure... Would
appreciate any tips and points to mods for
that purpose...
Many Thanks,
SteveRF
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Appliance Modules have a mechanical relay
that ratchets between ON and OFF. Have not
seen any mods to force it to click off when
power is restored. I have seen modifications
for a lamp module to add an SSR type relay
that will drive a motor and it does stay off
when power is restored like all lamp modules
do. I have done a few myself. Down side is
care is needed. An All Lights ON signal will
also turn it ON. Appliance modules don't
respond to All Lights ON just All Units OFF.
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SteveRF, the AM486 schematic can be found at http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/am486.jpg (http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/am486.jpg) It is not necessarily 100% accurate but is close enough to see how it works.
It would be difficult to modify this as the relay is mechanically toggled and only has one coil.
Probably the easiest way to do what you want is to use an external relay that holds itself in with one of its own contacts, and a reset button you press to restore power after a failure. You could also use a momentary Universal module (UM506) to reset the relay via X10.
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David, Brian,
Thanks for the very good ideas and tech advice.
I like the relay idea. I really do need to
do something before I burn up that $$$ pump
motor.
regards,
Steverf
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Icepick,
Is it still really working? I have the same
issue and I did the modification with no
improvement (although I think I used a 20K
resistor instead of the 10K (all I
had)....would the resistor size make a big diff ?
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Tim OC,
Still working great!! No unwanted "ON's".
It's been over a week since I did the
modification, and I am 100% satified. X10
needs to start manufacturing the Wall Switch
with this modification already done.
20K might be too much resistance. Go to
Radio Shack and get the correct resister, a
5-pack cost .98 cents plus tax. Enough to do
your other Wall Switches.
Also , make sure that your putting the
resister to the correct pins. The schematic
can be confusing. If the resister is going
diagonally, (from the bottom pin on one side
of the IC, to the top of the other side)
then it should be correct. It is not
correct if the resisiter goes across, it
must be diagonally. You can't confuse the
pins that are not is use (there is no solder
to the pins). The top one is pin#9. Then
just go diagonally to the other side, to the
bottom.
Good Luck, and keep us updated as well!!
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Thanks for the update, Icepick. This is
Really Good News!
Tom OC, 20k is still a high enough impedance
to pick up noise. I would use 1k (some
people have just shorted it without a
resistor but a reistor is more technically
correct). Make sure you keep the resistor
leads as short as possible (like Icepick did)
or it just forms an antenna that can pick up
more noise than before.
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SteveRF
The relay is the best choice to prevent
your pump to restart after a power failure,
but I would else investigate why the motor
will not start.
Is the voltage within specification? Here
in Canada there is a lot of bad
installation with 220Volts motors, building
supplied by 3 phases power have 110/208 ,
single family duelling are supplied by
110/220 Volts split phase, I had 2 enviro
chambers wired for 220 installed in our
building, the electrician assumed that the
lower voltage was OK, but that cause over-
heating and hard starting; a simple low
cost auto-transformer solved our problem.
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Well, I had 3 light switches that would come
on randomly... I did the mod using 1K
resistors (I'm sure I have it going
diagonally across the chip from pin 9 to pin
18. But, it still happens....I have to keep
turning off these lights that come on. The
only thing I can think of to try next is to
swap light switches with one that doesn't do
this to see if I have 3 bad switches. Any
other ideas?
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Tim OC,
I don't know why the mod doesn't work for
your three switches. Mine is still okay
after all these weeks.
Trying another "known good" switch at the
location of your problem is a good idea.
You might also want to try another house
code and address.
Sorry I don't have anything more.............
Good luck!!
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The last posts I found on this were 2005-2006 but I seem to have the same problem. I use AHP and have a house full of x10 modules and switches, all of which work beautifully (and have for years) until just recently one three-way switch seems to have a mind of its own and goes on randomly. The others still work great. Also, it won't work with the AHP but works fine with the on-off remotes. I've changed from the old switches to the new ones, from immediate on-off to slow on-off ones but the poltergeist in that particular room persists. I've changed codes, numbers, put two things on the same number (only the "evil" twin pays no attention while the "good" twin continues to follow directions)....all to no avail. Older posts suggest "modifying" the switch. Since I have no idea what that is or how to do it, I seek help here for possible answers. Other modules in the same room and/or on the same circuit breaker in the house work just fine. Help.