X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => Plug-ins => iWatchOut/iWitness => Topic started by: SteveRF on August 09, 2005, 06:00:21 PM
-
I am still thinking about getting iWitness
and a couple of cams to do yard area
security. I would be interested in hearing
from those of you using X10 CAMS with or
without iWitness (any kind of X10 cam or
others). I am running AHP/Smart Macro's
with fairly good succes. I am interested in
what I can do and how good the cams REALLY
ARE. I want to be able to SEE the area with
some definition. I want to be able to
identify people and not just a moving target.
I'd like to know about the cams... can they
handle a southern warm humid climate as long
as they are underneath protection ? Is the
clarity really as good as the
advertisements... Let loose and tell me just
what you really think before I spend $$ and
have regrets.,..
Many Thanks !!
SteveRF
-
SteveRF, I just received the
AHP+iWitness+XCAM2 with Ninja. I have a few
problems with the AHP s/w and CM15A but
have managed to get the camera and ninja
working. The ninja is pretty good. The
camera pretty much sucks. The resolution
is poor at best. Really hard to do
recognition on a person. If you are after
seeing what's been happening in the yard
the XCAM2 is not bad, but if you want to
identify a vandal forget it. License
number forget it...you'll only be able to
identify the color of the car (color XCAM2)
and maybe the make/model.
-
Hi SteveRF, I cut and pasted from another
reply I made but must say I am very
dissatisfied with my purchase but this is my
second attempt. My first attempt was with a
Clover video capture device with an IR
camera. The capture device did not work so I
sent it back along with the camera that on
line it says OutDoor but there was no way it
could even handle Florida humidity.
The program was very easy to use.
$169 for system $1000 for installation and
setup. Plane and simple I need the camera
to RECORD not just turn on every time the
computer turns on. A lot of power outages
here in Florida so I need it to record when
the power comes back on. Also it won't let
me update due to wrong file size. Also
picture quality with capture device on TV
ok on Computer worthless past 15'.
-
Mark and Kevin,
Thanks for your comments...hopefully I can
get even more info before I decide waht to do.
I live on the Gulfcoast FL/AL area so
humidity and heat is a major concern. I have
noted your unhappiness with resolution. I
share teh same thoughts. I want to be able
to recognize things not just a big area.
If you have more input as time goes on,
please share it... and MANY thanks to both of
you for your time !
SteveRF
-
SteveRF do you want to use this just for a
security camera as I did? I bought it for my
shop just to view vandals I have a computer
in my shop so I thought it would save money.
I should have bought the Clover system from
Sams with a DVR.
This stupid thing could jeopardize my job
spending so much time trying to get it to
work.
Still havn't figured how to auto record upon
startup also crashes or lockups ALL THE
TIME.
-
Mark,
Thanks for the hint about Sams...
Good idea, there is a Sams in Pensacola (just
over the bridge from me). I will go and take
a look at their wired systems.
SteveRF
-
Mark, do you have Smart Macros? If so, I
was wondering if you could create a macro
such as:
If camera ON
Then start recording
Would that possibly solve your auto record
dillema?
-
Mark, one more question. What is crashing
frequently, the AHP software, iWitness,
CM15A interface or all of the above? I'm
still experimenting and haven't extended my
system to more than just one "crappy"
camera. I've only done short recordings
and snapshots.
-
Hi Kevin, Have macros? who knows I know I've
been trying every thing that I see on the
program but it goes no where. And the
crashing happens when the program doesn't
like what I've done like look at media video
or download an update or when I pull down a
toolbar and ask it to do something it does
not like.
-
Mark, I have the AHP crashes too. None of
them 100% repeatable.
So, I dumped another $130 on a Q-See
wireless color camera and receiver. After
some not so technical testing, I found that
the Q-See receiver works the best with the
X10 XCam2 camera!! The combination is
barely good enough to read a license plate
at a distance of about 17 feet. Also found
the X10 USB video adapter introduces some
distortion. I compared it with a direct
feed into a TV.
-
All,
From what I am reading so far, the X10 Cams
are really priced ok but the delivered
picture quality is not that good ??
I am seeing some "throw away" 25 min
camcorders for $25.00 that seem to give a
better pic quality.... BUT I am still looking
at the X1o stuff....
appreciate all of your comments !
SteveRF
-
I performed a little more technical
assessment of the X10 XCam2 and q-see
camera. I used the iWitness software to
capture snapshots of identical objects. I
used all permutations of cameras, receivers
and channels. I found the best combination
turned out to be the X10 XCam2 and the X10
receiver set to channel C or D (both were
equal). The XCam2 camera is just plain
better than the q-see. The q-see camera
did have IR capability which I didn't
really test but it seemed to produce better
quality pictures than color mode. The q-see
receiver produce more accurate contrast and
brightness than the X10 receiver, but the
resolution was better on the X10 receiver.
I could not find the video specs on the
XCam2 camera anywhere, so it's hard to use
it as a baseline.
I have been having USB problems connecting
my interface (CM15A) to the PC. X10 gave
me an RMA, so I won't have anymore testing
information until I receive the replacement
interface. I'm planning on trying a $150-
$200 wired CCTV camera just to see if the
iWitness is a limiting factor.
-
Kevin,
Thanks for the info !
I'll watch for your cam testing and posts.
SteveRF
-
SteveRF,
I have several of the X10 cameras and pan
and tilts. The pan and tilt work great. The
camera resolution sucks especially if viewed
on a PC. The resolution is barely OK if
viewed on a monitor and people can be
identified if close to the camera. The
cameras are useless at night unless the area
is covered by bright flood lights.
I have the cameras, in my system,
triggered by motion sensors that start
macros in AHP. The macros turn on the
camera and start the pan and tilt in motion,
scanning the selected area. This all works
fine. I do not use the record function in
iwetness as it causes my computer to crash.
(Pentium 800mhz). I do all of the recording
with a VCR. I start the VCR with the VCR
recorder sold by X10 and I am very pleased
with this setup.
As far as the reliability of the units.....I
have had some of the camera for 3 years and
not a single one has failed. Some of the
cameras are mounted out in the open and are
exposed to the weather. I live in PA.
Although we do not have the continuous high
humidity that you have we do have hot rainy
summers and cold winters.
Jim
-
Jim,
Thanks so much for the info....
I do not have any X10 Cams at present and
from what I am hearing, the resolution is not
very good. Well, that is what I want the cam
for, to be able to "see" who and what out in
the yard area (20-300 feet). I wonder if the
XCam2 is any better and do I have to use the
X10 cams with the iWitness or can I use
another cam ? I'd rather spend another $100
or so and have a camera that I can count
on... BUT I am still looking... I really
appreciate all the candid advice. I do not
have iWitness yet but my AHP system is
working pretty well.. Right now I am kind of
dissappointed that I may have to abandon the
iWitness idea because of the Cam resolution..
o well... Wish they had a "try a cam before
you buy" program !
Regards and THANKS !
SteveRF
-
SteveRF, I totally agree with everything Jim
said. I have seen exactly the same
performance. I have one XCam2 which performs
as Jim mentioned his cameras do. The Ninja
pan/tilt is pretty amazing, especially for
the price. As I said before, I used a
non-X10 (Q-See) camera ($130) on my
AHP/iWitness system and actually found the
X10 camera to be slightly better. See my 8/12
& 8/13 posts again. I was thinking of trying
an X10 anaconda (wired) and see if the
picture was better and perhaps a $400 wired
CCTV camera. Not sure I want to layout that
kind of money, but it really seems to me like
if you don't spend over $300 for a camera you
won't be able to recognize a person except in
absolute perfect conditions. Check out the
cameras in commercial buildings. They are
pretty obvious and big; many behind tinted domes.
Bottom line is you can use other brand
wireless camera+receiver combinations. You
can use
iWitness+VA11A+ApplianceModules(1/camera).
Connected the composite video out of the
other brand receiver into the VA11A. You need
the appliance module to turn the other brand
cameras on/off in a multicamera system.
Alternately you can use the same VCR setup
Jim uses as I too have found the
VA11A/iWitness introduces some degradation in
video resolution.
-
Wow! I don't feel alone anymore. I spent a
lot of money "I think" on a system that is
barely operational and low in quality/high in
maintenance.
I bought 4 wired cameras thinking that would
atleast keep me from having to purchase so
many batteries and "hoping" that through a
wall would work with wireless. Well X10
doesn't support wired cameras as much as they
do wireless in their software or hardware
options.
I bought 4 Xcam wired cameras, connected that
back to a Quad processor so that the signal
could come into the USB cable to Active
Home/Iwitness. Picture Quality is poor at
best, unless like stated earlier, your
"victim" is within 5 feet of the camera. I'm
using this in a store.
I mounted these towards the top of the
ceiling on the wall, about 9' up. They move
left/right and up/down, but whenever I do
that and angle a picture to the side, I get a
diamond shaped picture sent back.
Iwitness, I'm sorry, is barely operational.
They promote you to buy motion sensors...why?
Why can't the image coming in have "HOT"
areas that when they change then the images
are stored or recorded. I know they want to
sell more of these damn sensors and support
the battery industry, but this software is
not the best solution and unfortunately, I'm
not aware of what other solutions are out
there. You get lulled into by the price, but
unless you are 110% sure it does what you
want, be prepared for some sweat and blood
trying to get everything together.
I had so many of these adapter units I had to
buy a 24 outlet power strip. Granted they
weren't all X10, but X10 was half of them.
Oh, I didn't mention, I've been in IT for
over 20 years with certifications and a
Masters degree. I guess that's why I think
there is a better way. You know they talk
about this stuff "behind the scenes".
Jake
-
Jake, In order to have the "hot spot"
detection of a live video feed wouldn't X10
have to develop software to sample the live
feed continuously and perform real time
comparison between T0 (immediate sample) and
T-1 (some previous video sample)? I have
looked at other surveillance systems that can
do this and they cost over $1,000 without the
cameras which start $400 each. While I do
agree with you on the lack of quality from
the X10 cameras, I do think X10 has provided
a cost effective solution for the home
consumer. I believe you do get what you pay
for...
For the environment you are using
surveillance in, I would suggest IP cameras,
a dedicated LAN (recommend Cisco Catalyst
3560 with PoE) and a SAN or NAS (RAID 5
internal storage at a minimum). Mid-level
system recommendation would be Axis
Communication camera's and software (which
has the "hot spot" detection you desire. The
ethernet switch will provide provide power
and IP Video back to the sofware eliminating
the need for all the power connections. It's
going to cost significantly more than X10's
solution, but it will perform significantly
better.
-
Kevin,
You stated….
“In order to have the "hot spot"
detection of a live video feed wouldn't X10
have to develop software to sample the live
feed continuously and perform real time
comparison between T0 (immediate sample)
and
T-1 (some previous video sample)? I have
looked at other surveillance systems that
can
do this and they cost over $1,000 without
the
cameras”
Actually my $100 TV Wonder video card/tuner
will do just this and it works fine with
the X10 cameras.
Jim
-
Steve: since your using X10dispatch you may
wish to use the same free software as the
author is he doesn't use x10 cams. But uses
other cams with x10dispatch.
I have posted some pics of x10dispatch with
2 of my cams at
http://forums.accessx10.com/showthread.php?
t=457
-
Kevin, yes they would need to sample the
picture, but given all of the cool wizbang
features this software is doing, this feature
would hardly be that difficult to put in.
Active home appears to be a pretty cool
system. My initial impression is that the
macros aren't flexible enough, so tell me if
I'm wrong. I want to run a macro based on
motion and then only if it's between the
hours of 9:00pm and 6:00 do I want it to turn
on a light. Is this possible?
I'm going to probably look at replacing the
whole system unfortunately. I'm looking at
getting a dedicated card to handle the 4
cameras, that should take the load off of the
CPU, and purchase better quality cameras.
These might be ok for home, but then again if
I had the choice between the two side by
side, I would either choose the better
quality one or if the price was that much
more, budget better for the best quality
solution.
Jake
-
Jim, I erroneously presumed Jake wanted to
capture pictures from the camera with video
changes rather than capture pictures of the
quad image. How do you get 4 camera feeds
into your TV card? Does the TV card quad the
cameras? Can you specify 4 regions of
interest (one per quadrant) on your TV card
and trigger captures based on motion once the
TV card quads the cameras? What do you use to
capture video? Sounds like a better solution
than iWitness.
-
Jake, If you are content with using the
motion detectors and cameras then the answer
is you can create the macro you seek. Since
you have logical conditions (motion AND time
between 9p AND 6a) you'll need Smart Macros.
Doing the motion detection from the video
feed in software in AHP is going to kill most
CPUs. I'm running a 3.6GHz+2GB RAM and the
iWitness video feed chomps 55-65% of the
processor. Without a video feed the processor
usage drops to 1%. Jim's solution sounds
like a better way to go (better hardware and
software perhaps).
-
Kevin,
I too thought the same.
The card will not do quad it will only look
at a single camera. Although the resolution
is much better than that in X10 it does not
have nearly the other features that iwitness
has. It allows me to define an area of
inclusion or exclusion. Changes within the
included area will start video record to the
hard drive. I have a dedicated hard drive
just for video record.
What I have found works best for me is
motion sensors that trigger macros that
start the desired cameras in motion and I do
all of the recording with a VCR. This buy
far gives me the best picture quality.. On
my computer iwitness recording is very jerky
and it causes my computer to crash quit
often. If I record with iwetness I use still
record.
-
Tuicemen,
I looked at your setup on AccessX10...
Quite impressive ! I will have to digest it
all slowly. Are you using X10 cams ? There
are lots of cams out there and I am still
undecided about jumping off with X10 cams..
Yours look pretty good on the web page. Are
you happy with them or would you recommend
trying another brand...
Regards,
SteveRF
(oh, I see some chilly weather coming in from
Canada....send some south ! I am in Gulf
Shores, Alabama..hot hot hot...)
-
yes I'm using a wide eye cam and a wired cam
anywere(same as the anaconda) I'm satisfied
with the resolution but I'm only looking at
small areas.I find the anaconda would work
best for me. I started a thread at
www.access.com so people can post some pics
generated from their cams they use in there
systems. This way you and others can judge
for your self the quality and which cam
would work best in your setup. Hopefull I'm
not the only one to post a pic! :)
-
Tuicemen,
Thanks for the reply... will look at the
other cams.. checking several times a day for
views... Thanks for taking the time to share
with us !
SteveRF
-
SteveRF, Tuiceman...I found Tuiceman's
picture to be better than the one I'm
getting. I should have my replacement CM15A
sometime this week. After that, I'll post a
similar picture. Then there will be two
pictures! :)
-
Kevin,
That would be great if you could post a
couple of pictures. I am still undecided on
what to do about some security cameras.. was
leaning toward X10 but now am not sure...
THANKS !
SteveRF
-
I have setup 3 cameras that activate
automatic still record function using
macros triggered by motion sensors. Takes
pitures for 2 minutes at 10 second
intervals. It works OK most all the time
OK.
Some things to think about:
You simply cannot take pictures in the
dark! No, no amount of flood lights work
enough for these cameras unless you get the
low light ones.
You must leave AHP running to use camera
functions in macros.
You must save macros to interface if you
use time, daylight, nightime functions.
Camera pictures on X10 website are
obviously not from XCAMS!
You will not find a less expensive system
that can compare...but it will work better.
PS I am still waiting on X10 to release a
working product!
Luck
-
David K.,
You said "Camera pictures on X10 website are
obviously not from XCAMS!"
How abut yours, are you satisfied with the
resolution, picture quality of the cams you
use ? Do you have any of the B&W low light ?
I am considering X10 cams but am not really
understanding of some of the quality comments
I hear. I want to view the yard area but I
really want to be able to tell what I am
looking at... Wondering if they would really
be lear enough. The Nina options are
interesting... Still looking..
Appreciate all of your comments !!
Regards,
SteveRF
-
I purchased my first camera in a little
bundle and once I tested it, have since
bought many multi-camera bundles.
I don't know what X10 cams others are using
that have poor quality, but I have the
Xcam2 Instant On, and I find the quality of
the video quite good ... and I have done
wedding videos and a lot of paid
photography.
I have a wide-angle that covers not only my
side yard but my neighbour's side yard as
well ... which I needed to record his
activities. This alone has been worth the
investment of all of the cameras.
The cameras basically show what you would
see if you were standing there. The colour
is good, and the sound is excellent. The
low-light clearly show the people at the
doorstep at night with the regular 60w
porch light. The low-light are B&W cameras.
The motion detectors are necessary not only
to start the recording, but also to turn on
the camera, and if dark the associated
light.
I would not recommend wired cameras so that
you are not stuck with wired installations
and hardware costs and the need to power
all the cameras all the time.
I can walk around my property at night, and
each area lights up as I go, and records
and stays on for the duration programmed.
The wireless have so many options and can
be expanded easily by just plugging in
another camera.
-
I can monitor any camera from any TV in the
house and in the garage and the workshop
(from all the receivers I got in the
bundles). Also, I can monitor from any
computer with a receiver, and I can monitor
and move the cameras through the 'net.
For all this functionality, it was
surprisingly inexpensive, and it sure
impresses people when you can show them all
the cameras around your house from their
computers, even moving the Ninjas, and
turning on and off lights remotely. The
sweep feature on the Ninjas is really
nice. Because they are moving, you cannot
use picture changes to activate recordings
or it would record everything ... you need
a motion detector.
I would suggest you buy a single camera
bundle, as I did and then return it within
the warranty period if you don't like the
quality.
Complaints:
FloodCam does not have a microphone
Chime is too long. Should be programmable
to a single note/sound.
Remote access is dependent on X-10 staying
in business.
-
I have two NightWatch cameras, one mounted
on the wall above my daughter's crib, and
the other on a tripod that I can move around
the house. I have the receiver plugged into
a ChannelPlus 3025 multi-room modulator, so
I can see the output on channel 120 on any
TV in the house. My only complaint is that
the "low light" cameras aren't "low light"
enough. We have a 25-watt lamp in her room,
and that is barely enough light. A true "low
light" camera should have an Infrared
illuminator on it, so that it can work in
the dark. I tried to use the IR illuminator
on my camcorder, but taht didn't help any.
The NightWatch must have an IR filter to
block that out.
-
Actually, they are not advertised as
infrared, or "no light" cameras anywhere.
They work well for us in low light. If you
need infrared then don't try to use a
camera that is not designed for total
darkness. If they were infrared they would
be called "no light" not "low light".
Clearly light is stated to be required.
You can either increase the light source
that is actually hitting the crib, or
better still, put the light source on a X-
10 lamp module, then you can remotely
adjust the light to the level you want
while you monitor. Also, make sure the
light is hitting the area you need to see,
and not shadows.
Or you can get an infrared camera that is
designed for "no light".
-
I never said that I expected the camera to
work in total darkness. In fact, before I
bought the cameras, I called X10, and spoke
to them about it. I just would like to see
the cameras work in less light than they
currently do. If I move the lamp closer to
the crib it works better, but my daughter
has a harder time falling asleep. So, it is
a trade-off. If I dim the lamp, we don't get
enough light for the camera to see. I do
plan on playing around with other lighting
options, such as a very low wattage bulb
directly over the crib, but I haven't had
the time to play with that yet.
-
OK, I used mine in a similar way, but I
used it as an audio monitor, and when I
wanted to see I would increase the light
more and then lower it again - all
remotely. You might want to see all the
time, which means keeping some light on or
investing in an infrared solution.
I hope it all works out for you ... !
-
Barrington,
Many thnaks for your comments concerning the
X10 cams ! Are you satisfied with the
picture quality of the Xcam2 and teh low
light b/w cams ? I have seen a lot of posts
from folks that indicated they were not that
happy with the picture quality. I'd
appreciate your comments ...
Regards,
SteveRF
-
Barrington, You have done exactly what I am
looking to do, setup 4 to 6 cameras on a PC
that can record and also have access to the
cameras online. For an example, a pre
school, has a setup so that the parents can
be at work and watch their kids at the pre
school. What would I need for this type of
functionality.
-
I can't really say I have a complaint about
the low-light cameras. They are black &
white but with a single outdoor lamp
(triggered on the same ID that turns on the
camera) it shows people clearly. It is not
colour, but you can certainly see the
people and who they are. I don't expect hi-
res colour quality, just want to be able to
see who is there, and if I know them. For
this it is fine.
For the daycare scenerio, you will have to
check to see if more than one person can
monitor at a time. When you are watching
the cameras, you can control and move them
through the 'net, but you go through an X-
10 server (portal). I would presume it
will only allow one person to connect at a
time for one location, but you can check
that. If so, you may still be able to get
around it by having a single computer
connect to X-10 and then have that computer
given shared access to the internet. Check
with techie people.
The Pan & Tilt Pro works well, and you can
turn lights on and off as well.
I haven't tried i-Witness yet. I was going
to buy it but then started getting these
insulting e-mails from X-10.
Sheer stupidity.
-
Barrington, IF I was to use cameras that
you could that did not move or had no zoom,
this would help the situation right?
-
Not that I'm aware of. You can check with
the tech people at X-10 but going through
the portal I would think it is a one at a
time thing. It would be easy to test ...
set up one PC accessing the camera and then
try to log in with another one.
-
wondering if there is anyone who has
successfully link the video signals via
internet to a remote station where one can
see what is happening in real time? is
there accessories for doing this?
-
willy wong, you can get x-10s MyHome Online
or use active webcam. I paid for a web
service with Active Webcam for $24.95 a
month, but now have MyHome Online which
doesn't cost anything besides the software.
With the X-10 setup you can control the
cameras from a remote location, not just view
them. I have had problems with the video not
sending the whole time with it though. We'll see.