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🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Software Problems & Bugs => Topic started by: hyrules on May 05, 2005, 08:45:06 AM

Title: 2 problems
Post by: hyrules on May 05, 2005, 08:45:06 AM
First problem:
Macro conflict...
whenever i issue a execute command to a
certain macro it trigger the opposite one in
the same group. eg: I trigger the off command
for all the lights in the basement the
program will alternatly send on / off / on /
off to finally turn off the lights. It's not
the first time it happen to the macros.

Second problem:
Ghost command or command conflict...
sometimes my units receive ghost command.
Like last night my bedroom module received a
on command resulting in the lights turning on
a 5:30 am not really funny when you are awake
by that. Another day my mother complained
that she turned off the lights basement 3 or
4 times because they kept coming back on i
looked closely at the activity monitor for
both case and the on command was in both case
sent to the unit. I dont understand why but i
know for a fact that i`m the only person
around with x10 modules. I have reason to
believe that the macros are the problem in
both case. these a from the activity log
before and after the event of this morning

************ yesterday *************
505    05/04/2005 10:05:11 pm    Receive    A On
(Lampe plafond)

506    05/04/2005 10:26:19 pm    Receive    A10
(Lampe plafond)

507    05/04/2005 10:26:20 pm    Receive    A Off
(Lampe plafond)

********* Today *************

508    05/05/2005 5:29:07 am    Receive    A Bright
10(Lampe plafond)

509    05/05/2005 5:37:20 am    Macro    E1 (Cote)

510    05/05/2005 5:37:20 am    Macro    E2 (Devant)

511    05/05/2005 5:37:20 am    Macro    E Off
(Cote, Devant)

512    05/05/2005 6:00:23 am    Macro    A5 (Lampe
Cuisine)

513    05/05/2005 6:00:23 am    Macro    A Bright
100(Lampe Cuisine)

514    05/05/2005 6:10:01 am    Receive    A5
(Lampe Cuisine)

I'm now thinking about making my own software
to control my x10 units with the sdk since i
know c, c++ and object oriented programming
very well.
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: hyrules on May 05, 2005, 09:45:38 AM
That's this morning

539    05/05/2005 9:02:24 am    Receive RF    A Unknown

540    05/05/2005 9:02:24 am    Receive RF    A Unknown

541    05/05/2005 9:23:34 am    Transmit RF    P16 On

on entry 541 P16... i dont even have a unit
on that housecode letter.
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: martin on May 05, 2005, 09:59:22 AM
Looks like the previous bug on the Activity
Monitor. Do you have the latest update
installed?
I also had a "Lampe Cuisine" strange
behavior before I got a phase coupler and
some noise filter modules.
Might also be double RF reception, are you
using some TM751 or RR501 with your CM15A?
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: hyrules on May 05, 2005, 10:18:19 AM
i`ve just update to the latest software this
morning but the problem happened with the
latest version (problem with the basement
lights) that's why i got back to the
previous. I have a
TM751 RF module indeed with me CM15A i think
i will need a noise filter... but at 5:30 Am
what could cause noise in the house. I know
that the only thing on a this time is my
aquarium filter ,air pump and water heater,
and my computer in the basement. I dont know
if alarm clock could cause that but they are
always plugged in and a couple of other thing
which i think could not cause that much noise
on the power lines.
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: martin on May 05, 2005, 10:52:00 AM
Using TM751 with CM15A will cause your
macros to double trigger (even if you
specify your TM751 House Code not to be
transceived by CM15A) as the RF trigger will
get picked up by both units. When the macro
command is only On or Off, the issue is less
problematic compare to complex macros and
dimming functions.
You may need to tweak your House Codes
setting and change your CM15A location. I
also use TM751s but my macros are all picked
up by CM15A only.
There are multiple potential sources for
power line noise (never heard of alarm clock
problems, so you can rule this one out),
such as computer, computer UPS, large TV set-
up, large freezer (I recall Joe S having
this problem), etcÖ
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: hyrules on May 05, 2005, 11:29:01 AM
I know for a fact that the CM15A RF range is
not far. Right now the CM15A is in the
basement and my TM751 is up one level so i
doubt that the RF command goes that far. But
knowing the problems of the CM15A I will look
into that, As for the noise i have indeed a
freezer and a 32 inches tv... might also be
caused by the ceiling fan but they are always
on so... thanks for the answers
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: hyrules on May 05, 2005, 11:35:58 AM
Is there a another way to identify which
household equipement is generating noise
aside from unplugging them ( like the freezer
which might not be a good idea ) ?
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: martin on May 05, 2005, 01:34:56 PM
Hyrules: itís mostly a trial and error
process. A PLC signal meter would help you
but itís not always worth the expense if you
use it only once. Do you have modules right
now that behave erratically? Like turn On
but not Off with a PalmPad or PLC
controller? That would be a good start.
Computerís power bars and surge protectors
are also a common source of power line
noise. Try unplugging them for the night.
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: hyrules on May 05, 2005, 02:12:05 PM
Not at the moment but like you said i will be
on the lookout to see if something in
particular trigger my units. All my units
respond to on or off command ( i had to
install a phase couple though ) and like you
said i wont spend on a signal meter that cost
alot to use it only one time. I will try as
you say for the powerbars thanks.
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: hyrules on May 05, 2005, 02:17:23 PM
I know for a fact that there is something
generating noise since my parents have hard
time listening to the radio in their bedroom
on the AM band they get alot of static and
when they move it elsewhere the radio work fine.
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: martin on May 05, 2005, 02:28:03 PM
Hyrules: the kind of noise that would
interfere with proper X10 operation is on
the power line, the AM radio captures in the
air noises. I highly doubt there would be a
relation between both type of noises.
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: joe s. on May 05, 2005, 03:06:31 PM
Strangely enough....there is a
realtionship.  Here's a cut/paste from:
http://www.hometoys.com/htinews/feb03/articl
es/chadwick/debug.htm   (very good article)

"If you don't have a meter, you can try a
portable AM radio tuned to an unused
frequency near the low end of the dial
(around 550 to 650kHz). A noise source near
120kHz will often generate 5th and 6th
order harmonics near this AM band. Carry
the radio with you and move it near AC
outlets while listening to the noise. The
louder it is, the closer you are to the
source. Use the noise to guide you, and
you'll hopefully find the source."
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: hyrules on May 05, 2005, 03:28:49 PM
Nice tip ! thanks i'll try that. I knew there
was a relationship between theses noise.
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: martin on May 05, 2005, 03:31:45 PM
Great tip! Thanks Joe S!
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: hyrules on May 05, 2005, 09:24:51 PM
Hey i`ve just tried this trick and it works
really well you know exactly what's
generating noise and i dont have to tell you
that almost every objects is generating but
Tv and computer tend to generate alot more .
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: sylvain bombardier on May 05, 2005, 11:17:49 PM
Hyrules, I had similar problems with ghosts
turning on my lights at night. After many
trials and errors and many bucks in filters
I found it. Defective X10 light switches!
Unfortunately, the bargain switches sold
here are often the cause of the problem
itself. Try replacing some switches by the
SwitchLinc model sold at SmartHome. It seems
also that the more switches you have, the
more likely this ghost lighting phenomenon
is to show up. Ten X10 pro switches seems to
be the limit in my case. More than that and
lights start to turn on in the middle of the
night (I have 15 X10 switches around the
house, 10 of them are X10 pro).

In hope this will help you a bit.

Sylvain Bombardier
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: donald mcmow on May 05, 2005, 11:35:27 PM
Any electronic device will generate RF
noise - as that seems to be what is
indicated here. This could be anything -
don't just say that since something is
plugged in all of the time that it couldn't
be the source. Some devices will only
generate noise at a particular time in
their operating cycle - firdges and
freezers when the cooling system is
actually working. A TV might create alot
more noise on a particulr channel verus
others. And yes, even an alarm clock could
be the culpret. An AM radio might help you
narrow down the source but then again it
might not - some devices are pretty good at
being RF sheilded but are the pits when it
comes to noise on the powerlines. It all
comes down to how much time you want to
spend on tracking down the source. You
might even find out that the source is
outside your home - from a nieghbour's
house or the buisness down the block. The
power company can only do so much filtering
and tweaking of the transformers before the
power gets to you. How many motors,
transformers and miles of wire are between
you and the generating station that can
pickup RF signals, lightening strikes,
shorted lines and other problems before we
get our power to use. It's amazing that we
get the power that we need.
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: hyrules on May 06, 2005, 08:12:55 AM
Well it seems that there where no ghost
lurking around my electricity last night. I
hope it will stay that way. I know that my
computers are generating noise because i
have alot of device plugged in ill hope for
the best in the next few days if not then
i'll buy a couple of noise filter.
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: carmine pacifico on May 06, 2005, 11:23:42 AM
Hyrules

Have a look at this web site, X10 WS467 is notorious for turning on at random, Mr. Bartana has a fix for it (and many other flaky X10 products), it appears that X10 engineers need to learn electronics 101: unused pins must be terminated. http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm

If you are spending hundreds of dollars in home automation products I would suggest investing in a meter like the ASM1 from Elk product, not every problem can be blamed on X10.
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: hyrules on May 09, 2005, 09:09:33 PM
These fix looks interesting and easy to make.
I have extensive knowlegdge and experience
with electronic circuit and processor like
the PIC. Should be easy to do but since my
hardware is still on warranty i wont tamper
with those devices. Since last time, I've
updated my software and disable all the
transceived codes in the interface. I didn't
had any ghost with my bedroom light and all
my macros are workking well. It's most
practical to be able to turn off the lights
while in bed ( thus some might say i'm lazy
but i dont care) My setup is rather small
compared to you guys 6 Switches , 1 appliance
module , 2 lamp modules and a supersocket but
as of now i have to say that my CM15A has
work fairly well... sure i had problems but
things are kinda stable now.
Title: Re: 2 problems
Post by: denis on September 04, 2005, 10:12:31 AM
The activity monitor does record activity
but all
the units are working ok