X10 Community Forum
🛡Home Security => Home Security General => Topic started by: leo on June 03, 2005, 04:15:27 PM
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Hi,
I was wondering if anyone knows how much
current does internal siren of Radio shack
49-1000 deliver to the buzzer. I am thinking
of removing the buzzer and extend a wire to
external siren which runs off 12VDC source.
I have tried this but the unit does not
deliver enough power to fully sound the
horn. The horn works fine because I
connected it to 12V battery and it sounded
perfect (better than ADT :-)... I am
not sure what to do. Maybe I can add
a relay switch and connect it to external
horn. Anyone knows what kind of relay
to use? I just wish X10 did better job
with these horns...
thank you
leo
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Do you know if the internal sounder is like
a speaker or a piezo transducer? Piezo's
like the ones in the SH10A and PH508 are run
by a high voltage with almost no current. I
am trying to get a SH10A to drive a
sensative relay as I have drawn a sketch
from tracing components in one. Relay
arrived today and I maybe playing soon. I
have not looked into a DS7000 or 49-1000 but
may also give them a look also.
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I looked at the rear of my 49-1000 and it
looks like a piezo transducer where the
siren sound is coming from. The chime
speaker is on the top cover.
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Hi Brian,
Thanks ofr the reply. What kind of relay
did u order? Please let me know what
you find out. Thanks
leo
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Hi Brian,
Thanks ofr the reply. What kind of relay
did u order? Please let me know what
you find out. Thanks
leo
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You are welcome. Have two relays that I
wnted to try. Both the PH508 and SH10A
should be tested shortly. I may pop the
cover on the 49-1000 to see how they did it
in that model.
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Oh the question on relay. I am trying two
sensative type relays as they take very
little power as we where trying to drive it
from the transducer. I got 24 volt ones as
the SH10A has a 29-30 volt supply on the
transducers drive transistor and there is
Pulsing DC on the transducer. The PH508
actually has places for the relay and has
about a +28 volt to -15 volt connection and
resistor R30 that can be used to drop the
voltages. So also a 24 volt one there.
Preliminary on the 49-1000 it has NO DC on
the piezo transducer and is driven by a
transformer with no DC supply to help drive
a relay. Even my high input resistance meter
seems to load down the sound from it. I may
try a few high speed switching diodes and a
capacitor to see what voltage I can get and
maybe a sensative relay may work there also.
More tests this afternoon.
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Hi Brian, So if I understand you right,
the wire which is attached to buzzer does
not deliver enough amps to trigger a relay?
Do u know how much amps and Volts is
going through that wire/ I am refering to
the wire which is attached to the Buzzer.
Thanks
leo
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It is a high impedance circuit and even
loads down with my meter. My scope shows
maybe 40 to 50 volt AC spikes. I put a
diode; capacitor and resistor of about the
value coil resistance my relays are and the
voltage was about 20 volts. NO Amps on that
output. Maybe a few miliamps at best. It was
not designed to drive any power device like
a relay coil. Just a piezo transduccer. I
was using an Omron sensative relay that took
4.3ma but have found a NEC one that is even
less a load. On the 49-1000 it maybe needed
to use a sensative relay soldered to the
input side of the transformer and that would
also need a blocking diode and a capacitor
to smooth it out. The SH10A and PH508 that
we know the 49-1000 can't use have a small
DC on the transducers and I maybe able to
drive them. I may get a NEC relay to try
anyway.
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WOW, thanks for the valuable info. Good Job !
I can not believe why X10/Radioshack did not
add external siren as the option. So many
people would benefit with such a feature.
My best hope is to wait till Radio shack
comes with the external siren
similiar to Powehorn.
For now, I have moved the internal siren to
an outside location in my house where siren
is loud enough to notify my next door
neighbour :-)
Pls let me know what you find out.
Thank you,
Leo (and many others who are reading
this thread)
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You are welcome. I ordered the NEC ED2-24NJ
[24 Volt] and ED2-12NJ [12 Volt] today from
Mouser Electronics today. Missed the
Priority Mail deadline for today. Will ship
tomorrow and be here by weeks end.
They are both a very low power high
sensativity relay and have 1 amp contacts
for the output. Will have to add a diode and
capacitor to it to hope and get it to work.
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I think that R.S.; still thinks the PH508
and SH10A work correctly with their 49-1000?
Will post anything else I can find out. If
the thing didn't send the Light Codes and
used the All Units OFF; All Lights ON like
the DS7000 then all would be slightly better.
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Hi Brian,
This is the siren which I baught and it works
great but ofcourse not with my Radio Shack
(yet)... This is a nice online store and
have good electronics stuff.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?
&DID=7&Partnumber=260-060
Looking to forward to hear back from you.
ps. yes, radio shack still believe Powerhorn
works with their products. Very clueless
folks..
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Hi Brian,
This is the siren which I baught and it works
great but ofcourse not with my Radio Shack
(yet)... This is a nice online store and
have good electronics stuff.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?
&DID=7&Partnumber=260-060
Looking to forward to hear back from you.
ps. yes, radio shack still believe Powerhorn
works with their products. Very clueless
folks..
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Took a look at the siren you have. Says 12
volts 200Ma. The relay I am looking at is 1
amp resistive so it may have enough to
handle the siren. Since it is a double pole
one both switches could be connected in
parallel for better results. Will post
findings when I have them. Even this high
sensativity relay may load down the internal
sirens output volume. Time will tell.
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Hi Brian,
What are u using for the siren? is it
DC or AC? Also is this relay sensitve
enough to shut off external siren after
RS unit shuts off. Or do i need to
move to the middle of mountains so my
neighbours can not hear the siren... :-)
I wonder if it is worth instead to buy a X10
unit and use the Powerhorn. Is the PH any
good? With my siren, it is loud enough to be
heard 100 yards away.
Thanks again for looking in to it.
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The relay is sensative in the power it takes
to be actuated. The transducer driver
doesn't provide lots of power. Yes it should
turn ON from the transducer being driven and
should drop out when the driver is stoped.
The RS 49-1000 has some nice features like a
password; LCD screen and settable options
like delays etc. The X10 doesn't have as
many bells and whistles. The sensors and
detectors seem to work with each others
consoles. Only the Powerhorns seem to be a
problem with the RS unit. The smaller SH10A
sounds like in my opinion an overexcited
cricket and the PH508 sounds like a
warbiling two tone sound. Neither sound like
a siren but can still draw attention. Not
weather resistant so outside maybe a problem
for them. OH one point not in the RS book.
Push BOTH the Arm and Disarm button on the
remote is a 'Panic' alarm. Truth here. I
have both an RS 49-1000 and an X10 DS7000
and don't use either one. I like
experimenting and tinkering. Even taking
things apart for fun, though warantee is
shot that way! That is whay I have boxes of
extra X10 stuff from sales, though I do
control the house with X10 modules and
equivalent X10 stuff from third party
manufacturers.
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Brian, U are the Best :-) Thanks for sharing
the info. I have enjoyed reading your
emails. Please let me know what you
find out. It looks like I am going to
stay with RS for now. You are right, it has
nice features except the siren part ;-). I
hope they can provide that feature one day.
I am going to send them an email and hope
for the best.
later,
leo
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Will post anything I do find out.
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I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE 49-
1000 WILL SOUND THE PH508.THE ONLY PROBLEM
IS THAT THE RADIO SHACK 49-1000 IS SENDING
THE SIGNAL TO SLOW TO TRIP THE POWER HORN
HAS ANY BODY OUT THERE FIGURE OUT HOW TO
SPEED UP THE SIGNAL ON THIS CONSOLE.I HAVE
CONTACTED X TEN AND I AM SURE THER
TECHNICIONS KNOW WHAT TO DO TO CORRECT THIS
PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY BUILD THIS UNIT FOR
RADIO SHACK.X 10 HAS NOT RESPOND TO
ME.ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO SPEED UP THE SIGNAL.
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The PH508 [SH10A may also]will respond to
the Security Light ON OFF cycle as you said.
Yes the timing is too slow to do it
normally. Actually it is the order of
signals that may mess it up. Problem is X10
designed the PH508 and smaller SH10A to
respond to an All Lights ON; All Units OFF
sent by their DS7000 console. Only way to
get the timing fixed is a new firmware from
X10 for R.S and the chips are soldered in.
Even R.Ss web site where the PH508 and SH10A
are shown only say it is compatible with
their older console that is like a DS7000
only White. I have seen a modifacation for
the PH508 that lets it respond to less
cycles normally takes 4 if memory serves me.
Maybe that will help. I have promised to do
tests and this weekend maybe free to do them.
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Ray; Line signals sent by 49-1000 when in a
panic trip. Using B1 and B2 House Unit
Addresses:
B1
B2
BOn
B1
B2
BOff
The timing or the extra unit code maybe the
thing that the PH508 or SH10A don't like.
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Tried the PH508 mod found on the
www.pigselectronics.com; Tech Tips for less
cycles for a trip. It also didn't work with
the 49-1000. It sounded intermitantly in
bursts and also tripped when you armed
it ,lights flash on and off to verify an
armed condition.
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Hi Brian I don't guest no one has found a
cure for that radio shack 49-1000 junk.i
have sunk some money in this piece of junk
plus radio shack got my $50.00
bucks.claming they did not recieve that
power horn i sent back to them.i am feed up
with x 10 and radio shack.so i will find me
another brand of home alarm to by.hope i
can sell this junk 2 power horns and 11
transmitter.i have learned my lesson you
get what you pay for???????.JUNK.
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Radio shack 49-1000 deliver to the buzzer
spikes up to 40 VAC, average 18 VAC.
I used 4 diodes bridge and 2200 mcF
capacitor to rectify it. Then I connected it
to Radioshack Reed relay - #275-232. the
relay draws 20mA of current. It worked. But
internal buzzer sounds pathetic when relay
is connected. I want both - internal and
external siren. Tomorrow I will experiment
with a transistor switch - should draw way
less carrent from the buzzer.
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Yes on the RS 49-1000 I used a very sensative
relay with a bridge diode and cap for
filtering, It worked but as you said it
kills the internal buzzer. If I hade gone to
the input side of the transforme I may have
gotten better results.
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Has anyone found a simple answer to the
poor sound on the siren? Seems it's a
problem and is making X10 alarm owners sell
their equipment.