X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: donald landstrom on November 18, 2005, 02:54:01 PM
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I have had the push button wall switches
throughout my home for several years. Now
they seem to be failing one by one to
respond to on-off commands but still work
to turn lights on or off from the module
button. So far three have failed in this
manner. (one unit will respond to an off
command but not to an on command) Will I
have to eventually replace all of my wall
switches? is this a common place happening
after one or two years in place for these
mondules? Are the new wall switches any
better than the old ones or should I just
give up and replace with conventional wall
switches? Replacing these units one by one
as they fail adds up to quite a bit of
MONEY.
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Any changes or additions to the home. Like a
new computer tv or other electronic gadget?
If so try the problem switches with the
devices unplugged. Some make so much line
noise in the X10 signal area they can stop
X10 devices from working. If so an X10 type
filter maybe needed for the device. Also do
you have a phase coupler to couple X10
signals across the phases in your home. Have
you changed the bulbs on the switches to a
CFL type?
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Donald:
I have had exactly the same experience as
you. First one wall switch failed to work,
then another and another. Then the command
module stopped working altogether. Now I
find that the external security lights turn
on almost at random and won' turn off. I am
about ready to rip out all of the X10
products, cut my losses and go back to
standard switches/lights. I have called the
help line numerous times and they have
pretended as though this is the first time
they have ever heard of this. And yet in
various internet forums, I now discover that
this is not unique to me at all.
When you first purchase, there is no mention
of the need for X-10 filters! Nor is it
reasonable to suggest that this product will
no longer work if you change a light bulb or
plug in a different appliance. In a few
parts of the world, power companies are
transmitting telephone and TV signals across
power lines, so how X-10 cannot handle a
noise within one's own home I don't
understand. If the technology is not that
robust, then I think it is time to switch to
something else - maybe wireless, that is not
affected by power line noise. I see that
Lowe's is now selling wireless modules (for
outdoor security lights) that would work in
place of X-10.
If you manage to fix your problem (other than
through random trial and error, which I
resort to) then please post here how you did it!
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This is exactly the same problem I discussed
in another forum. I have installed a phase
coupler and it has made no difference. I,
too, am getting a disillusioned with my X10
ActiveHomePro system with the faults
happening when nothing in the electrical
system has changed.
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Two more of my wall switches have failed
since I first described my problem. The
replies I got from X-10 are of no help at
all. I have had three encounters with
the "help desk" and all three tell me to
try the wall switch in a different
receptacle. They don't seem to "get it"
that the wall switch is wired into a
circuit and would burn up if taken out of
the wall and "plugged itno a receptacle"
Do these "experts" know anything about the
items sold by X-10. I think not.
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Unfortunately, X10's support is very
unsatisfactory. When I was a beta tester for
AHP, the service reps were very helpful but
when the program was completed, the
knowledge base of support suddenly
disappeared. It appears that X10 is more
focused in flashy advertising and
selling "deals" than supporting their
products after they are sold.
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I just installed ActiveHome Pro and I am
having trouble with the RWS17 decorator
wall dimmers that were sent (in lieu of the
WS12A but supposedly identical in
function). The switches will respond to
lights OFF (if the lights are manually
turned on at the switch) but not to lights
ON. Once they're off, they're off for good
until the switch is pressed by hand. The
other controls (lamp module, appliance
module) are working fine, on and off. I
tried in 3 different locations, even in the
same room/circuit as the controller, but
with no luck. The wiring instructions on
the printed paper are different than on the
device itself, and the web page PDF
instructions. They have the line and load
reversed. I tried both ways and regardless
it exhibits the same behavior.
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I installed mini controller and wall
switches in a customers home about 6 months
ago. Now, 2 of the wall switches will not
respond to turning both on and off from the
controller. Just on on one and off on the
other. I replaced both switches but no joy.
Still not functioning properly. Is there
anyplace else to find tech help, fourms,
and alike?
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I am having problesm with this as well.
Finally unplugged ActiveHome module from
wall and wnet back to my original
Clock/Timer and the switches work perfectly.
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I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one
experiencing these phenomena. My latest was
last weekend, when I decided to swap two
switches because the one for my front porch
lights was only responding to manual
control - no response to either the remote
or the computer. At the same time, I put my
christmas tree on a lamp timer. When I
powered the circuit back up both the module
and switch responded to commands from all
sources. YAAAY!
Three hours later, all the outside lights
except the front porch came on. Also, the
tree lights failed to come on. I tried both
the remote and the computer with no success.
Now I'm starting the trial and error process
of checking for interferences.
Like many of you, there have been no changes
to my electrical system, stuff just quits
working and I'm getting PO'd. Is there
anything out there that performs better than
X-10? I love my home automation, but it's
got to be more reliable!
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I have had the same problem with my GE Simon
alarm system. All of a sudden the light
stopped going "on" would turn off no problem.
Every now and again it would work as normal.
I tried a module and that works perfect.
Damn annoying. I want to get more switches
to wire to the alarm for when I get home, but
I dont want light randomly not working.
Tried the module on the same phase. That
works just not the switches. arrrggghhhh
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I have had the same problem with my GE Simon
alarm system. All of a sudden the light
stopped going "on" would turn off no problem.
Every now and again it would work as normal.
I tried a module and that works perfect.
Damn annoying. I want to get more switches
to wire to the alarm for when I get home, but
I dont want light randomly not working.
Tried the module on the same phase. That
works just not the switches. arrrggghhhh
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I had similar symptoms. One wall switch
would turn on but not off. I tracked it down
to one of those high efficiency fluorescent
screw in bulbs. I am going to try to swap it
out with one from another mfg to see if the
problem goes away..
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Me too. On the CFLs. I had one brand that
made so much X10 noise it stoped some of my
modules from working.
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I too had a problem with my light switch
not working correctly, when I first
installed it, everything was fine. Then
after a few weeks, the slave switch would
not turn the light on, it would turn it off
fine. All the other functions with the
switch was fine including off and on with
the remote. After a little research on the
forums I discovered that if you switch the
black and blue wire on the master switch it
might fix the problem. I tried this and it
is again working fine. Also I had a couple
of switches that would not work remotely,
tried to think of what I might have plugged
in that would cause this. Discovered that
one of my computers was the culprit, I
unplugged it and now everything is fine, Im
going to try a new power supply for that
computer and see what that does. Just
putting out this info because it doesn't
seem to be much in information about what
you might can try to fix your promblems,
hope this helps.
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Terry C. If the new supply also makes
trouble use an X10 Type Line Filter. I had
to add one to my APC BX1000 UPS as it sucked
up all the X10 signals on the powerline.
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Terry C,
When you shop for your filters pick up a
couple of ten amp (smarthome 1626-10) and
two or three five amp (smarthome 1626).
They are a little pricey but you sometimes
can find a deal on eBay.
The filter is the first thing out of the
wall. Use a big power strip for the
computer, printer, monitor, misc wall worts,
etc. Then plug the power strip into the
filtered outlet.
This will help reduce or eliminate your line
noise from those sources. Anything with a
power supply could be a culprit. And a lot
of things come with "AC adapters" nowadays.
Another line noise story is posted on Dec 13.
Good luck
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Thanks Brian and Irving I will look into
those filters, but as of now I replaced the
powersupply with one I had on hand in an
old computer and that took care of my
problem for now, everything is working
fine, has anyone ever tried that 90 dollar
signal booster and crossover thing you can
plug into a 220 dryer outlet? Would love to
hear some feedback on that, seen it offered
on Ebay.
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My three wire dryer type repeater work well.
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"I have had the push button wall switches
throughout my home for several years. Now
they seem to be failing one by one to
respond to on-off commands but still work
to turn lights on or off from the module
button. "
All mine failed at the same time.
The transciever gets the signal - and so
does the new one I just bought (The relay
clicks and turns things on and off.)
Following advice from Tech support I
plugged it and a module into the same stip.
It did not work.
Tech support said they were fried.
I plugged in a new out of the box device
(remote chime) and it did not trigger.
Nothing added or changed. It all worked
when I left the house and nothing worked
when I got home.
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Mike; Not too common but; could be something
failed electrically. Someone here actually
had a power supply on their HP printer start
making noise and killed the whole X10 setup.
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I have had a Radio Shack timer and wall
switches and receptacle modules controlling
lights in my home for many years. Recently
one channel on the timer failed and I decided
to replace the timer and get wall switches
and plug in modules which would handle
compact fluorescents.
The plug-in module (#2002SHL3) functions well
with a CFL lamp. It responds to timer remote
ON/OFF commands and programmed commands.
The Wall switch (#23895) will not respond to
the timer (which is plugged into the same
fuse line). The switch works manually for On
and Off.
The same switch taken out and hooked up on my
test bench in a similar cirsuit configuration
responds correctly and turns the test lamp On
and Off remotely and also responds to
programmed ON/OFF timer commands.
I can't see that there is any differnece
electrically between the circuit on the bench
and the circuit when the switch is installed
in the wall switch box.
Does anyone have any suggestions? Terry
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I've been an X10 user (8-12) channels, a
timer, and various transmitters located all
over this under lit 100+ year farmhouse and
barn, for many decades - starting back when
the equipment was chocolate brown and labled BSR.
I've used just about every home automation
product they sell, and sold, and will mention
the best and worst parts when it comes to
reliability:
Unfortunately the wall switch is one of the
worst - it fails in one mode or another, or
altogether. Transient sensitivity? Maybe
and sometimes. Use a Socket Rocket if
possible. Before the "Rocket" existed, I
used to dissasemble lamp modules, remove
their plug and socket parts, and hard wire
them into the fixtures. They are very
reliable too, as are the plug-in appliance
modules.
One of the best is the wireless motion
sensor. It has incredible battery life,
works in a wide range of temperatures, and
works the vast majority of the time, even on
nearly dead batteries. When it doesn't work,
it's usually a signalling collision.
Excellent design. No failures. (They have
an ambient light sensing mode, but I couldn't
seem to make it work, but it's really not
needed in most situations. Just the auto off
saves electricity, even if it does operate in
the daylight.)
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To all with the wall switch problems - I've
looked over all your comments and suggestions
and have observed a variety of inconsistant
failures described and (sometimes) solved.
'Been there done that. Terry C. (121105)says
reversing the "blue and black" wires worked
in their case; still Paul (112205)says
reversing his did no good.
Then I got to thinking: This wall switch
module, and the only one that I can think of,
does NOT have access to both the Hot and
Neutral wires without one of them passing
through the load. Incandescants are probably
the load that it was designed for.
Flourescents present a very different load
(and 2nd wire return) to such a two-wire
controller and could be the cause of these
"strange" failures.
Again, to put it another way, the wall switch
is the ONLY x10 controller (module) that
doesn't have a direct connection to both
power lines. Beleive me, these "series"
designs are difficult and present many
tradeoffs compared to one that doesn't have
to look "through" the load to get commands.
I suspect minimal filtering protection
because filters, particularly in such a
serial design, tend to attentuate the X10
signals too, which may explain the outright
failures I, and many of you have experienced.
I'd try other ways (types of modules) for
these particular loads.
The Socket Rocket comes to mind...
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There are mods on web sites to add the white
neutral to wall switches.
I have used socket rockets to run CFLs
though common wisdom says don't use a triac
type control on a CFL. Since it does not dim
they seem to work fine for me.
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To Brian,
I certainly did forget that the Socket
Rockets are non-dimmers.. I do agree that
SOME CFLs may run just fine with the rocket,
and if not, the rocket is easier to change
out than a wall switch.
Do the neutral mods to the wall switches
really help, particularly with the outright
failures? I assume, without looking it up,
that one has to open the module to add the
neutral... Assuming there's a N in the box?
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I believe you cau a common run and add the white wire for neutral. On the same web page another mod found thet in the wall switches X10 has a floating input on the controller chip. With only the weak internal pullup on the input. It caused false triggers on and off. They added a stronger pull up on the chip and in their case made false triggering better. I can't say if the mods help. I have no problem the [2] 2 wire X10 switches. Most of my home is now other brand modules and switches. http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm is where some of this is.
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My total failure fixed itself. I walked
into the kitchen and the light came on, so
I checked everything else and it worked.
Naturally I did the next logical thing and
turned on my - not hooked up to an X-10
device - porch light and it came on. Note.
On or off the X-10 devices didn't work.
This was two or three days after it stopped
raining.
This is an old house and I would not be
surprised to find the porch switch is on
the ground side of the circuit and that
just enough moisture was seeping through
something to set up a path to ground that
was noisey for some reason.
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To Brian H,
I was curious if the neutral helped with the
failures to operate either remotely, locally,
or altogether. Unsupressed transients
certainly can entirely kill such a control.
The open, or high impedance imput on a unused
CMOS chip can raise havoc, depending on it's
intended function. I hadn't heard of, or
experienced much "mysterious cycling" , thank
goodness. Most of my annoying "failures"
aren't permanent, but merely a failure to
respond on first push, even with transmission
extenders, from time to time. Pushing the
opposite (on v. off) can sometimes "wake up"
the desired channel again right away.
I can't say the same for other wireless light
controls I've tried and tested - the
Heath/Zenith wireless wall switch of 1994
comes to mind - the receiver cycled like
crazy when airliners on their departing climb
over here passed by. Their circuit was
completely analog, even crude by the digital
wireless "standards" of the time and was
obviously bothered by the aircraft radio
transmissions.