X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: Pikachu on December 01, 2005, 02:11:25 PM
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I'd like to be able to overide a
programmable thermostat using macros, so
that I can save energy when no one is home
(sensed by motion sensors). I don't like
the Set-Back device - it is an ugly kluge
and requires a power outlet, appliance
module, and extra wiring and devices on my
wall.
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Pikachu,
I second that request! Maybe X-10 can make
some money with this one.
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I Third that request, I have been wanting
to control that energy guzzler better. And
the way energy costs have been going up
across the country that would be nice.
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I also agree,
The add on module looks like an old add on for a rotary thermostat rarely used today. I bought a new house 6 months ago and my in-laws purchased a new house 2 years ago. Both of them came with a thermostat that looked like it was programmable, but they lacked the features. In order to use that module I would have to buy an antique looking thermostat and then purchase and wire the x-10 module. I currently use a programmable thermostat and would like to be able to use x-10 to make it more functional. Since, schedules change and drastic temperature swings can occur, or you might take the day off. All of these events require someone to physically change the thermostat. I have it programed, yet it usually stays on hold.
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For a temporary workaround, you can take an old cheap manual thermostat and run both it and your programmable to the HVAC. Interrupt the control line of the manual thermostat with a universal module. Set the manual thermostat for a temp colder than u want in the summer and warmer than you want in the winter. Then turn on the universal module when you want to overide the programmable thermostat and then when the temp gets to what you want, turn it off. Since the programmable and the manual are both set to make it colder or both set to make it hotter, they don't fight each other. When you turn off the universal module, the temp slowly changes until you turn the u/m back on or the programmable kicks in on it's programming. Not a perfect fix, but it works well for me most of the time. The only problem I have is when the weather changes are severe enough that I'm switching from heat to A/C.
When I first tried it, I set the manual at the actual temp I wanted the house to be and didn't like that as much as the cooler in summer, warmer in winter settings. I was more likely to forget and leave the u/m turned on if it didn't go past a cofortable temperature.
I use HAL deluxe and have if/then statements set up to try it with a second u/m on the programable, to ensure that they are never on at the same time, but have not yet taken the time to wire it up. I'm also trying to rig a temperature sensor so I can have HAL tell me the current house temperature over the phone so I can check on whether or not I turned of the manual thermostat.
I use this setup because my work schedule (I'm the sound engineer in a theatre) is very erratic and the programming on my $50 thermostat hardly ever got used. Now I have a regular schedule programmed that saves me money on electricity and the manual to overide with for comfort.
I also have my hot tub on an x10 switch (pneumatic controls, so I can't control the hot tub directly without a lot of extra high voltage wiring and I just don't want to mess with it around water) with a normal schedule of on for even hours, off for odd hours. I have a series of macros set up that will overide the schedule and keep the hot tub on (or off) all the time or for certain periods of time.
It's really nice to be able to call the computer as I'm leaving work and tell HAL "I'm on my way home" and have him turn on the HVAC, my hot tub and the driveway light which has a non x10 motion detector. I take about 40 minutes to get home and the light comes on when I pull into the driveway and the house and the hot tub are both at perfect temperatures. Now if I can just figure out a way to teach HAL to have a frozen margarita and a hot blonde waiting at the hot tub...
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...Now if I can just figure out a way to teach HAL to have a frozen margarita and a hot blonde waiting at the hot tub...
Be sure and let us know if you figure that one out. ;D
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If I understand what you are saying,
I should run another line (multiple wires) connected to the household air handler and to a second thermostat. I could then set one to heat and the other to A/C. As long as the temperatures, don't over-lap, the system will work fine, since I am energy conscious, I will let my house get colder or warmer than comfortable, when nobody is home. How will this setup help me when someone comes home early, It will allow the system to switch from heat to A/C, but if someone comes home early, they will still need to manually override the system.
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Not exactly. Let's deal with one season at a time and that should make it a little easier to follow. In the summer, you set the programmable thermo to the energy saving temp of your choice, let's say 85 degrees. This will be the temp that is in use when u are all away from, the house. It will also be programmed with the exact temperature (let's say 78 degrees) that your family finds comfortable, but it will be scheduled to use that temp ONLY when you are certain that someone will be home (10 pm to 6 am or such). The manual thermo is set to a few degrees below that number (say 72 degrees). When someone is on their way home early, they can call (if you have a telephone controller) and activate the universal module which will connect the manual thermo to the HVAC unit. When it comes on, the HVAC will come on and start cooling off the house. By the time they get home, the house will be cool. When the house gets colder than you want (below 78 degrees) you will notice that the manual thermo is still engaged and remember to send the x10 signal to turn off your universal module.
In the winter, you set the programmable thermo to the energy saving temp of your choice, let's say 68 degrees. This will be the temp that is in use when u are all away from, the house. It will also be programmed with the exact temperature (let's say 74 degrees) that your family finds comfortable, but it will be scheduled to use that temp ONLY when you are certain that someone will be home (10 pm to 6 am or such). The manual thermo is set to a few degrees above that number (say 80 degrees). When someone is on their way home early, they can call (if you have a telephone controller) and activate the universal module which will connect the manual thermo to the HVAC unit. When it comes on, the HVAC will come on and start warming up the house. By the time they get home, the house will be warm. When the house gets hotter than you want (above 74 degrees) you will notice that the manual thermo is still engaged and remember to send the x10 signal to turn off your universal module.
As I said earlier, "The only problem I have is when the weather changes are severe enough that I'm switching from heat to A/C.", But once summer is really here, it runs great, likewise, once it truly turns to winter, this works well.
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Check out the RCS TXB16. (http://www.resconsys.com/products/stats/x10.htm).
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Thanks for the link, that looks like it solves the HVAC problem I wanted X-10 to solve, of course after researching what it does, it will cost some dough to implement. Home automation isn't cheap.
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I am kinda new here guys so cut me a little slack before you hammer me with technical jargon. ;D
I have been looking for an X10 compatable thermostat that was programmable. Looks like the TSB16 is really all that is available. How can I get it put into my new home pro software? All I see is one of those old ancient set back systems to drag and drop into a macro.
Is there a macro I can get from X10 or anybody else to help automate this thermostat with "Smart Macros"?
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...Is there a macro I can get from X10 or anybody else to help automate this thermostat with "Smart Macros"?
Start by checking out the X10 Decode Tables at the link in Roger1818's message. It appears the this thermostat can be operated in different modes.
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...Is there a macro I can get from X10 or anybody else to help automate this thermostat with "Smart Macros"?
Start by checking out the X10 Decode Tables at the link in Roger1818's message. It appears the this thermostat can be operated in different modes.
Utilizing the full capability of the TXB16 requires sending and receiving the old-style Preset Dim codes, which are unfortunately not supported by either ActiveHome Pro or the CM15A firmware.
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The TXB16 will only work with the CM11A controller. I know mControl software will work with the TXB16 unit but it has to be connected to the CM11A.
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...Is there a macro I can get from X10 or anybody else to help automate this thermostat with "Smart Macros"?
Start by checking out the X10 Decode Tables at the link in Roger1818's message. It appears the this thermostat can be operated in different modes.
Utilizing the full capability of the TXB16 requires sending and receiving the old-style Preset Dim codes, which are unfortunately not supported by either ActiveHome Pro or the CM15A firmware.
My quick look at the X10 Decode Tables led me to believe you could send specific ON and OFF codes to control setback or specific temperatures. How are Preset Dim codes used? Can it also set temperature temperature based on a particular dim setting?
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Utilizing the full capability of the TXB16 requires sending and receiving the old-style Preset Dim codes, which are unfortunately not supported by either ActiveHome Pro or the CM15A firmware.
My quick look at the X10 Decode Tables led me to believe you could send specific ON and OFF codes to control setback or specific temperatures. How are Preset Dim codes used? Can it also set temperature temperature based on a particular dim setting?
The ON and OFF codes only provide 1-way communication to the TXB16 Thermostat - you can set it but not read it.
Preset Dim codes are required for 2-way communication, e.g., you can query the thermostat for various status information like the current room temperature and get back the result encoded in a Unit Number + Preset Level message.
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Utilizing the full capability of the TXB16 requires sending and receiving the old-style Preset Dim codes,
CORRECT!
or the CM15A firmware.
INCORRECT!
The CM15A firmware does support the old-style Preset Dim codes if you use the SDK. There are many caveats when trying to use them, but there are workarounds. Check out the thread Reading TempLinc temperature codes? (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=4209.msg33848#msg33848) for more details (the TempLinc also uses the old Preset Dim commands).
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Utilizing the full capability of the TXB16 requires sending and receiving the old-style Preset Dim codes,
CORRECT!
or the CM15A firmware.
INCORRECT!
The CM15A firmware does support the old-style Preset Dim codes if you use the SDK. There are many caveats when trying to use them, but there are workarounds. Check out the thread Reading TempLinc temperature codes? (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=4209.msg33848#msg33848) for more details (the TempLinc also uses the old Preset Dim commands).
What you say is true, at least for sending Preset Dim commands with the SDK. Can you read them also? I've only used the ahcmd.exe command in the SDK.
What I meant to indicate is that the CM15A firmware does not support the Preset Dim commands in downloaded macros (unless there has been an upgraded firmware since the date of my CM15A).
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What you say is true. What I meant to indicate is that the CM15A firmware does not support the Preset Dim commands in downloaded macros (unless there has been an upgraded firmware since the date of my CM15A).
I am not sure if it is firmware limitation or if they haven't bothered implementing it in the AHP software. To the best of my knowledge X10 hasn't published the spec for downloading macros so it would be hard to say definitively what is and isn't supported.
It would surprise me if it isn't supported in firmware, but then again it surprised me that the firmware supposedly doesn't support address only messages in downloaded macros.
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I split Dave W's copyright question into a separate thread entitled Copyright Question about Article written in defunct “Popular Home Automation” Magazine (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10408.0) and moved it to General Discussion (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?board=1.0)
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What you say is true. What I meant to indicate is that the CM15A firmware does not support the Preset Dim commands in downloaded macros (unless there has been an upgraded firmware since the date of my CM15A).
I am not sure if it is firmware limitation or if they haven't bothered implementing it in the AHP software. To the best of my knowledge X10 hasn't published the spec for downloading macros so it would be hard to say definitively what is and isn't supported.
It would surprise me if it isn't supported in firmware, but then again it surprised me that the firmware supposedly doesn't support address only messages in downloaded macros.
Roger,
I've posted info about patching the downloaded CM15A EEPROM code in message:
http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10821.msg61763#msg61763
What I've done in the past is download a macro with a sequence of On and Off signals. Then I patched the EEPROM code to replace one of the On or Off function bytes with one of the other X10 function bytes not supported for macros in AHP, i.e., AllLightsOff, Preset 1, Preset 2, Hail, HailAck, StatusOn, StatusOff, StatusReq, from the CM11A Protocol document. I triggered the macro and monitored the power line with a CM11A to see what (if any) response I got from the CM15A.
This was some time ago and with a very early CM15A. I recall specifically that the Preset 1 & 2 and the StatusReq functions didn't work but don't remember about the others. (I was most disappointed that the StatusReq didn't work since I use that a bit with my CM11A.) I reported my findings to X10Pro at the time. I haven't gotten around to checking whether anything has been changed in more recent vintage CM15A firmwares.
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From what I am seeing. I think the best thing to do is to just go back to the CM11A. It is supported by many 3rd party software designs and it seems a little more flexable. To me, it SEEMS like you have more control over your modules and with the newer Active Home, you are limited to what is offered for modules.
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The only problem with going back to the CM11A is some (not alll) XP machines have problems with accessing serial ports, so the CM11A vansihes from Active Home. It also will not interface with Active Home Pro, since it was programmed to use only the USB CM15A interface.
A few people have had success using a USB to serial adapter to continue using Active Home on XP where there are serial port problems.
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I have been researching the availability of two different module/controllers that are already available through other companies. I want to have the HVAC system AND the hot water heater (gas) controllable via WEB in a home in another state. It's in a dessert environment that gets very hot in the summer and cold in the winter. I need to be able to log into the system remotely and adjust the heating and AC as the seasons change without having to be there.
The only current module I see from X10 is unacceptable (the one that plugs in under the thermostat and blows hot air). That may have been OK in the 1970's but is unacceptable today. In addition. I have read in another company's site of a module that will control the water heater, and still another that will sense water on the floor (sensor) that can notify the system of a possible water leak/pipe break.
Since these modules already exist by other companies, it seems to me that X10 wouldn't have to do much to copy their functionality but make them work within the X10 system.
For me, the primary reason for choosing an automated system for remote use is the Heating/AC, sprinklers and water heater. The lights can be set on timers if needed, but since X10 already can controll those, that's just icing on the cake.
Anybody been able to use these modules from the other companies successfully with the X10 platform? If so, can you let us in on what you did, how it works and any snags we need to consider. Thanks.
KRR
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I don't know about controlling the hot water, but for the HVAC, RCS makes an X10 thermostat (http://www.resconsys.com/products/stats/x10.htm). You can get it from Automated Outlet (http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php?productid=220&cat=85&page=1).
Since you also mentioned sprinklers, the most popular sprinkler controller is the Rain8 (http://www.wgldesigns.com/rain8.html) from WGL & Associates although I think SmartHome also makes an Insteon one which would probably be backwards compatible with X10.
The thing to look for with critical applications such as HVAC and sprinklers is that they operate independently of X10 (X10 should only be used to override the default behavior). Although reliable enough for lights and such where if it doesn't turn on or off it isn't the end of the world, it isn't 100% reliable and you don't want a missed command to cause a flood or pipes to freeze.
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At my lake home I have my regular programmable thermostat and then an old round honeywell thermostat set at 55 in the winter or 80 in the summer. From my work computer 80 miles away I can toggle between them using a RCS X10 8 pole relay. If we decide to go to the lake for the weekend I log into my remote web server and make the switch. I don't have a computer at the lake but I can still switch thermostats (I also can switch my water heater and well on or off from work or wherever). You can buy this X10 remote web server on eBAY. Not sure of the link...type in "internet" and "X10".