X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: sbp on May 17, 2006, 11:18:07 PM
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I just bought a starter system, and quickly discovered that about half of my outlets don't respond. A quick trip to the knowledge base and forums indicates this is a phase coupling problem. Of course, this isn't certain, and I don't want the cost of an electrician hard wiring my main panel. So I'm leaning towards a phase coupler or coupler/repeater. However, I had read that if you have a phase problem, the switches should work when the dryer is running. (My dryer is on a 220V three prong plug). I tried this, and nothing changed. Does this mean that the problem is NOT a phase issue? Will buying a plug-in phase coupler be a waste of time?
I can't reposition my stuff; if I can't get certain outlets to work, the whole system is useless to me. Help?
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The dryer test is not a 100% test. If the signals at the dryer outlet are low already. The signals passed back to the other phase still maybe too weak. I used a simple .1uf AC cap in my breaker box and it helped but needed a full Couple/repeater to get what I needed.
Have you also checked for signal suckers or noise sources. Try selectively disconnecting things like TVs and other electronic goodies and see if it helps. One thin computer power supplies and surge strips are known to be problems in many cases. I ended up with an X10 Filter on my APC BX1000 UPS to stop it from absorbing most of my signals.
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The dryer test is not a 100% test....
Had it helped, it would of pointed in the direction of needing one but unfortunately not having it work doesn't negate the need for it. I feel most serious X10 users can benefit from one, however. Without it your signal may have to go all the way to the line transformer at the street to cross over. Go ahead and check for the "signal suckers". Then you can find out if you need to buy any filters also when you order your coupler. ;)
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I had a problem with a particular outlet.
Where is the controller plugged in? Do you have a computer plugged into the same circuit (I don't like to assume, but I assume that you do)?
I got around needing a filter for the computer that is on the same circuit as the computer by putting the controller closer to the breaker panel than the computer, then I wired in a coupler/repeater and so far, I do not have any issues. I had the luxury of having had wired this particular room myself so I knew where the closest outlet to the panel was, but you could do the same by trying either (or both) adjacent outlets.
What would be easiest is to unplug the computer and see if that helps though. If that doesn't help, then you could try the dryer test again with the computer unplugged.
Do you have a remote, and a plug in (lamp or appliance) module? If so, you could take the controller to one of the rooms where the outlets do not work and see if you can activate the module in that room.
Anyway, post your results and someone here will surely help you figure out what needs to be done to get this stuff working!
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Thanks for input so far. I have AHP, so I need to plug in the CM15A into the same outlet because I also have to plug the CM15A into the USB port on my computer.
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The CM15A does not require the PC to operate.
If you have a remote and another module (lamp, appliance, X10 outlet, etc) then you can control the module with the CM15A and the remote by sending the proper house code/unit code from the remote to the CM15A. The CM15A will then pass the command on to the module. None of this requires a PC at all.
Let's start simple and gather some more information before we try to get everything working right out of the box, OK?
Most likely, it will work, eventually.
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Not exactly.
The CM15A need to be attached to the PC to download timers and macros to it. After downloading, the CM15A can be moved to any other AC outlet and the timers/macros run from it. If any changes are made to the timers/macros, the 15 has to connected to the PC to clear the interface and redownload to the interface.
99% of AHP users keep the CM15A connected 24/7, as it makes life easier, plus any macros that are not downloaded to the interface and resides on the PC require that the interface be connected to the PC and the PC left on.
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...99% of AHP users keep the CM15A connected 24/7, as it makes life easier, plus any macros that are not downloaded to the interface and resides on the PC require that the interface be connected to the PC and the PC left on.
Such as the email function I've come to love. :)
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To get to a starting point to try to figure out what is going on we need to get more information.
You do not need macros and timers to test to see if the powerline is able to carry the signal!
The point I am trying to make is that if I were to take my CM15A from one phase to the other and see that, all of a sudden, the other set (or subset) of outlets are now working, then there is most definitely a phase coupling issue and possibly a signal degradation issue.
We do not need to make this more complicated than it is at this point!
One thing that is worth noting is that make sure that the CM15A is set to transceive the appropriate house codes when doing this.
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sbp; If you can do the tests on the other phase with some downloaded timers or using a remote to send the X10 signals that may help in finding if it is a phase thing.
If you have to keep the cm15a on the computer. There are filters with a pass through outlet that is not filtered. That is the way mine is. UPS in the bottom filtered outlet and the controller in the passthrough one.
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I follow you. Yes, I can hook it up a most likely other phase outlet and see if it will control the rest of the outlets that were not working. I have one outlet right in the hall outside where the computer is. I ran into this problem so soon that I still haven't even upacked the remote control. I'll have to make sure I'm using it right on the current couple of working outlets before I disconnect the CM15.
I'm expecting if this is a phase issue, I should be able to work all the other dead outlets once I put the controller on one. A single family house shouldn't have more than 2 phases, right? That is, if anything is still not working, I'm looking at a noise issue as well?
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...A single family house shouldn't have more than 2 phases, right?...
Correct.
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I would think that a single family home would be split single phase; but I did see a 3 phase one in a housing complex. There the voltage is 208 VAC between hot wires and 120 from on hot to neutral.
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...There the voltage is 208 VAC between hot wires and 120 from on hot to neutral.
I'd hate to have to hunt for a 208 VAC dryer. I wonder how much that would add to the price.
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Pigs Electronics, in Baltimore (http://www.pigselectronics.com/) carries a 0.1 uF 250 VAC Capacitor, which can be used to carry X10 signals from one phase to another. You can place it between the "hots" in a 220/208 volt box for an electric stove, for example. I have an older house which was wired for 220, three-phase in the 1950's for the installation of an electric stove and electric dryer.
When I got X-10 in the 1980's it wasn't long that I ran up against the phase problem. Called the guy who owns Pig's, he sold me a capacitor and a couple of lamp modules (he lives a mile and a half from me, I can drive there in 20 minutes. Put it in the stove's box, and presto!!!! The new X10 modules in the Breakfast Room (house has tiny kitchen, large room next to it) worked from the X-10 DOS program.
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I tried to check the outlets by hooking up the CM15 controller away from the computer and using the remote to switch the module. First, I wanted to test the remote before I moved anything.
I had to figure out how to program the remote for a known working module plugged into a known working outlet. That done, I turned on AHP, and, when I hit on or off on the remote, the icon on the AHP screen toggled and and off. BUT, the module did nothing. If I used my mouse and turned on/off from the screen, the module worked. What does this mean?
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Problem solved -- at least the remote control issue. The instructions don't say anything about checking the settings on Hardware Configuration. It was defaulted to None. Checked off Auto, the remote works.