X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: TakeTheActive on July 22, 2006, 10:37:51 PM
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IMO, without accountability *AND* refer-backs, the "Karma" Helpful / Not Helpful Ratings are *WORTHLESS*! :o
If I mark someone's post as "Helpful" / "Not Helpful", exactly *WHAT* did I accomplish? ???
- Does the OP know *WHICH* of his/her posts was marked "Helpful" / "Not Helpful"? - NO! :(
. - Does the OP know *WHO* marked his/her post "Helpful" / "Not Helpful"? - NO! :(
. - Do Guests and/or Lurkers usually bother to participate in activities such as this? - NO! :(
. - Is this an avenue for folks to anonymously "Back Stab" other posters that they personally don't like? - YES! :)
. - Can I spend the next 24 hours (i.e. 1 "Karma" Helpful / Not Helpful Rating per hour) TOTALLY RUINING SOMEONE'S CREDIBILITY??? - YES! :)
So, *WHAT* (bottom-line) does it accomplish?!? ??? ::) :-[ :- :(
IMO, at this point, NOTHING! :(
- YES - I have STRONG opinions (certainly you've heard the phrase "Everybody has one...", right? ;) )
. - YES - I have no hesitation in "stirring the pot"
. - YES - I like to get "right to the point"
. - YES - I dislike folks who post and don't know "WTH they're talking about" :o
. - YES - I consider myself very knowledgeable regarding X-10 ;)
. - Other X10 Community members that I recognize / respect:
- Charles Sullivan (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=13) - SEARCH comp.home.automation for X-10 and Linux info
- JeffVolp (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4933) - SEARCH comp.home.automation for X-10 and XTB info [Glad to see you just joined! :) ]
- [BTW, I'm new here - if I find more, I'll certainly add them! ;) ]
. - YES I have an "obsession" with forum formatting - IMO, it adds "feeling / expression / emphasis" to the otherwise FLAT text :)
So folks, here's your chance to PARTICIPATE - VOTE NOW (or forever hold your peace) :o :-X :- ::)
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IMHO:
People who need help generally won't click either one, unless you actually solved their problem (and frequently not even then).
People who disagree with you (with or without good reason) or who just plain don't like you (also with or without good reason) will click "Not Helpful" just out of spite.
Also, the rating should apply to a specific post. I mean even if a particular user is often full of (you know) it doesn't mean that the post you are veiwing has no merit. For all you know it is the only time the guy was right on-the-mark!
It may not be possible as X10 didn't write this forum software, but if they can, I think they should disable the rating system except as it applies to specific messages / solutions X10 posts that they would like feedback on.
Just from observation, if a post is truely useless there are plenty of people ready and willing to FLAME about it and thus discourage others from taking it as gospel, and if it's absolutely dangerous you can always inform the moderator.
Again, just my opinion. It might even be worth the electron's it took to bring it to you.
Or not.
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Yes ! I care.
I view the forum as a way to receive and give help.
If I get a helpful rating that means that I helped someone.
A Not Helpful means that I should review my post and try to improve on it.
What about Neutral ? This should be added.
That would mean that you missed or left something out, wasn't clear or not really saying anything.
This should also be reviewed and improved or just deleted.
I do agree with steven r that the ratings should be tied in some way so that the rater would state their reason for the rating given.
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...Again, just my opinion. It might even be worth the electron's it took to bring it to you....
Pretty much sums up my opinion about them also.
While the pluses are a nice "pat on the back" there's no real accounting for "opinion whims" or "anonymous vindictive raters". As long as there's no way to tie ratings, the rater and rated message together, their value is limited if any. It would be like your boss coming up to and saying that you are doing poor job without giving any reasons. You can worry about his comments all day but if he never gives you any reasons the comment serves no useful purpose. It's best to enjoy the "pats on the back" and let the others "roll off the back".
I think it would be nice if you could turn off / hide the ratings. Even better would be if you could have a "profile comment" or post a message to would be raters such as "This member is not accepting rating at this time. You are encouraged to email them directly with your comments."
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TakeTheActive, I've learned from you and have given you a positive rating for the advise given.
Yes, people can be vindictive even hateful yet I believe that most are decent.
People who use the forum to "anonymously "Back Stab" other posters that they personally don't like. Can spend the next 24 hours (i.e. 1 "Karma" Helpful / Not Helpful Rating per hour) TOTALLY RUINING SOMEONE'S CREDIBILITY???" are simply hurting themselves with their immaturity, pettiness, anger, etc,.
A while ago I believe you had several negative ratings and no positive ones. I read your posts anyway and found you to be knowledgable.
I believe that the ratings were meant to be helpful and that it could be with some changes made such as suggested by steven r and -Bill- (of BXVC).
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...I believe that the ratings were meant to be helpful...
Yes I believe they were, also. Without additional information they are almost meaningless, however.
This forum has tons of features that really have no bearing on its true purpose, to help others by sharing knowledge and experience about X10 and related subjects.
e.g. My current post rating is 0.918 per day and I've been on this board a total of 7 days 19 hours 59 minutes. Who cares? Maybe it just a reminder to me I should get a life. (It really means I've had a lot of "free time" since my accident and I enjoy the interaction on this board.)
It sure beats the old board even if it is a bit of overkill!
If any of my 30+ years using X10 products can be of help to someone else, great. If someone wants to give me a "+" fine; otherwise I'd rather a message so I can know better how to help or stay out of the way. Even a one line "eBay" style comment line would be useful. Who knows the software may already support something like that. It might be of more help to send suggestions to the Simple Machines (http://www.x10community.com/smf/Themes/default/help/index.english.html) people that designed the board rather than to X10. Let's let X10 devote its programing time to making AHP better.
Anyway that's my 2 cents for now. I reserve the right to spend a few more cents later. ;)
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Yeah, what steve says goes for me too!
(Except the part about using X10 for 30+ years...X10 isn't quite that old.)
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...Except the part about using X10 for 30+ years...X10 isn't quite that old...
Perhaps it just seems that long. I thought my roommate had a BSR timer back in the early 70s, however. BTW... I still have that model X10-TC262. Anyway long enough to date myself a bit.
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steven r, you are correct, it has been that long..........
According to X10, they have been in business for 30+ years and online since 1996.
I won't say how old I am but I have a grandson in the Army.
Like Jack Benny (for those that can remember and doesn't suffer from CRS). I feel like 39. ;D ;D ;D
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Bill,
Thanks so much for getting this thread "rolling". :)
While I enjoy posting "possibly interesting" ;) threads on all the forums I visit, I do abstain from replying to them *UNTIL* a good portion of the 'Active' populace responds with THEIR opinions.
The point I'm attempting to make here follows the Signature Line that I use on most of the forums I visit:
Low Post Count != Low Knowledge - High Post Count != High Knowledge ;)
Just because I'm NEW here, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. For example, JeffVolp (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4933) just recently joined the Forum, currently has 3 posts to-date, and only *ONE* Helpful Vote (FROM *ME*! :o ). *ANYONE* who reads Jeff's posts should IMMEDIATELY acknowledge them as Helpful (just SEARCH Group:comp.home.automation for more proof), but, it seems, no one bothers. :(
*BUT*, if someone UPSETS one of the "Self-Proclaimed EXPERTS" here, WATCH OUT!!! ::)
I've only been here a couple of weeks, but, I've read many of -Bill- (of BXVC)'s 82 Posts - *WHY* was I the FIRST person to accredit him with a Helpful Vote?!? ??? Totally unfair to Bill for his contributions. >:(
IMHO:
People who need help generally won't click either one, unless you actually solved their problem (and frequently not even then).
ABSOLUTELY! In fact, IMO, the folks that gain the most benefits are the LURKERS / GUESTS that *NEVER* register. :o
...People who disagree with you (with or without good reason) or who just plain don't like you (also with or without good reason) will click "Not Helpful" just out of spite.
And, why not? There's no audit trail / association back to who-did-what... :digust: (couldn't find the smilie)
...Also, the rating should apply to a specific post. I mean even if a particular user is often full of (you know) it doesn't mean that the post you are veiwing has no merit. For all you know it is the only time the guy was right on-the-mark!
If you'd like to see a properly implemented VOTING system, IMO, visit FatWallet: SOLD OUT!!! - X-10/RCA Activehome & RemoteControl Kits $10 (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.php?start=50&catid=18&threadid=621846#bottom). IIRC, you'll need JavaScript enabled (I have to "Bypass" Proxomiton if I want to see the VOTES), but you can see WHO voted + or - for EXACTLY which post.
...It may not be possible as X10 didn't write this forum software, but if they can, I think they should disable the rating system except as it applies to specific messages / solutions X10 posts that they would like feedback on.
Again, I refer everyone to the FatWallet implementation...
...Just from observation, if a post is truely useless there are plenty of people ready and willing to FLAME about it and thus discourage others from taking it as gospel, and if it's absolutely dangerous you can always inform the moderator.
*AND*, IMO, if a post is indeed worthy of a Not Helpful Vote, it CERTAINLY should also be worthly of a TEXT REPLY from the Voter, explaining WHY! :digust: (again, couldn't find the smilie)
...Again, just my opinion. It might even be worth the electron's it took to bring it to you.
Or not.
Healthy discussion is GOOD! :D
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...A Not Helpful means that I should review my post and try to improve on it.
And, exactly, WHICH POST would that be that you should REVIEW??? ???
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...While the pluses are a nice "pat on the back" there's no real accounting for "opinion whims" or "anonymous vindictive raters". As long as there's no way to tie ratings, the rater and rated message together, their value is limited if any...
EXACTLY! :)
*WHICH* of my XX posts did you find "Not Helpful", and (specifically) *WHY*?!? ??? :o ;)
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TakeTheActive, I've learned from you and have given you a positive rating for the advise given.
Thank you. :)
...Yes, people can be vindictive even hateful yet I believe that most are decent.
And, I believe that those DECENT folks are also GUESTS / LURKERS / NON-PARTICIPANTS... :(
...People who use the forum to "anonymously "Back Stab" other posters that they personally don't like. Can spend the next 24 hours (i.e. 1 "Karma" Helpful / Not Helpful Rating per hour) TOTALLY RUINING SOMEONE'S CREDIBILITY???" are simply hurting themselves with their immaturity, pettiness, anger, etc,.
A while ago I believe you had several negative ratings and no positive ones. I read your posts anyway and found you to be knowledgable.
I believe that the ratings were meant to be helpful and that it could be with some changes made such as suggested by steven r and -Bill- (of BXVC).
I didn't come here to win a POPULARITY CONTEST - I came here to share my X-10 knowledge.
As I previously stated:
- I dislike INCORRECT answers
- I dislike INCOMPLETE answers
- I dislike WHINING
If you *REALLY* want a QUICK ANSWER to your X-10 question, SEARCH the newsgroup: comp.home.automation
There's *OVER TEN YEARS* of X-10 Questions and Answers available there - do you *REALLY* think 'your' question is that UNIQUE?!? ::)
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...Without additional information they are almost meaningless, however.
My opinion exactly!
...e.g. My current post rating is 0.918 per day and I've been on this board a total of 7 days 19 hours 59 minutes. Who cares? Maybe it just a reminder to me I should get a life.
Maybe! :D
...(It really means I've had a lot of "free time" since my accident and I enjoy the interaction on this board.)
I haven't read yet about your accident, but I *DO* hope that you're now feeling better!
...It sure beats the old board even if it is a bit of overkill!
That board CERTAINLY was a *POS*! :o
...If any of my 30+ years using X10 products can be of help to someone else, great. If someone wants to give me a "+" fine; otherwise I'd rather a message so I can know better how to help or stay out of the way. Even a one line "eBay" style comment line would be useful.
Same here! PLEASE TELL ME what 'you' found "Not Helpful"! ???
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...(Except the part about using X10 for 30+ years...X10 isn't quite that old.)
Respectfully, I don't think so... :o
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You can see the problem on many shopping websites that allow you to "rate" a product.
On many of them the person giving the rating can explain the reason they like or dislike the product.
Reading the ra(n)tings on many of these sites while researching potential purchases, the reasons given for the rating can often spell out that this person knows what they are talking about and should be taken seriously, or they are just to lazy to read the manual and blame the product.
I think if you are going to give people the right to vote an opinion, they should have to post a reason for that opinion. Then other users can read the reason and make up their own minds whether this opinion is a rating or just a ranting. That said, my own forum on wgjohns.com isn't any better than X10's in this respect. Some of us just can't afford or don't know about better software. :(
I have seen great products and helpful posters rated poorly on many sites by people who either have no clue what they are talking about or just have a bone to pick with someone.
So... X10 guys, I think this new forum software is super compared to the old stuff, but listen to your customers and forward this thread to the people you got / bought this from and maybe they will take the suggestions to heart and we'll all benefit.
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steven r, you are correct, it has been that long..........
According to X10, they have been in business for 30+ years and online since 1996.
THANK YOU! :D
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...(Except the part about using X10 for 30+ years...X10 isn't quite that old.)
Respectfully, I don't think so... :o
Oh gee whiz, when X10 claims they have been in business for "30+ years" they must be refering to the old Pico days. I know we are "old guys" with X10, but thirty years ago (1976) the following was the roots of "X10". The logic and control in this BSR product became the design platform for X10 as we know it.
http://www.thevintageknob.org/THEVAULT/ACCUTRACK4000/ACCU4000.html
In 1976 Dave Rye and Pico was probably still working on "project X5". "BSR System X10" did not get test marketed until 1978.
And steven r the question is: "Does that TC 262" still work? ;-)
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PS to the above sensless, arrogant, self serving, egotistical post.
I forgot to answer "TakeTheActive" original question which is the subjet of this thread....
No.
;)
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...And steven r the question is: "Does that TC 262" still work? ;-)
Incredibly, Yes! I might of replaced a diode or something in it once and the slide switch is a bit sensitive now but it does still work. I use it more as a clock than anything else right now.
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If the folks at X10 wanted to, they could implement features in the software that may be there already or ask the software maker to include some of the features we've been discussing here.
Doing so, would greatly improve not just the ratings BUT the forum itself.
IMO, won't happen. The software (probably) is what it is - definitely they won't get the software maker to make any mods. They 'could' switch to the FatWallet software that I previously mentioned (they USED TO list the software manufacturer's name at the bottom of their main page, but I just checked and it's no longer there), but, *WHO* would be available to transfer the existing messages to a new format? Again, probably no one...
The *KEY* here, IMO, is capturing the attention of the *REAL* X10 folks in power - not the ~20-year-old Newbies that have been assigned to monitor this forum.
The *ONLY* X-10 "Old-Timer" (AFAIK, thus far) to speak up and reveal his existence is Dave Rye. I've sent him PMs - have you?
My next step is to search GOOGLE for the X-10 Officers & Board of Directors and inform them of my perceived DOWNFALL of X-10's perception in their customer's eyes.
Don't expect too much out of the ~20-year-old Newbies - they're probably working their A$$es off, without a clue as to what's going on.
As I've stated so many times before, us "Old-Timers" know the value of X-10; but if they're going to keep TURNING OFF the Newbies, it's going to hurt EVERYONE in the long run... :(
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Oh gee whiz, when X10 claims they have been in business for "30+ years" they must be refering to the old Pico days. I know we are "old guys" with X10, but thirty years ago (1976) the following was the roots of "X10". The logic and control in this BSR product became the design platform for X10 as we know it.
http://www.thevintageknob.org/THEVAULT/ACCUTRACK4000/ACCU4000.html
In 1976 Dave Rye and Pico was probably still working on "project X5". "BSR System X10" did not get test marketed until 1978.
dave w,
Of course you're right! You and JeffVolp appear to have *EXCELLENT* memories when referring back to the late 70s / early 80s, whereas folks like steven r and myself, just like to "round things off". ;)
27½, 28, 29 WTH - just ask my wife; I have NO IDEA anymore of how time flies!
ME: We just went out to dinner a few weeks ago.
WIFE: That was TWO MONTHS AGO you !@#$%!!!
---snip---
The idea of using the existing AC wiring to transmit signals to control lights and appliances was conceived (like so many Pico/X10 ideas) over several drinks in a bar. If we had known then how long it would take us to get to where we are now, we would probably have moved on to project X11.
In 1978 X10 was introduced to the American public, RadioShack being the first customer. RadioShack are to this day still one of the biggest retailers of X10 products (private labeled for them as the Plug ‘n Power system). Sears, Roebuck soon became our second customer. We already had a relationship with BSR, they had a good name and good distribution, and so we formed another 50-50 venture with them and founded X10 Ltd. On the evening of the press announcement to introduce the system we still didn’t have a name for it, so engineers being engineers, we settled on the name "The BSR System X10." (In later years it became the X10 Powerhouse system).
Right from the beginning we intended that X10 products would be produced at low cost and in high volume so we set out to manufacture the products in the Far East. At first we used sub-contractors in Malaysia. By 1984 we had moved manufacturing to Hong Kong, had set up an office there, and at one point were managing 17 sub-contractors. This became a managerial nightmare. We found out that some of our sub-contractors were sub-sub-contracting into China. We thought "if they can do that, so can we" so we set up our own factory in China. Our first factory was in an area of Shenzhen that at the time was little more than a village. Now, 20 years later that area looks just like Hong Kong. We have since moved further into China, outside the first Shenzhen border. X10 was one of the pioneer western companies to set up shop in China.
---snip---
Reference: Congratulations Dave 30 years at X10! We sure appreciate you!! (http://www.x10pro.com/daverye.html)
...And steven r the question is: "Does that TC 262" still work? ;-)
Say steven r, I've been GOOGLING for a picture of a TC 262 - do you have a LINK to one? Is it *BEFORE* the 'X10-020211 Fluorescent Display Timer' that JeffVolp and I have been referring to?
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PS to the above sensless, arrogant, self serving, egotistical post.
ME??? :o
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...Say steven r, I've been GOOGLING for a picture of a TC 262 - do you have a LINK to one? Is it *BEFORE* the 'X10-020211 Fluorescent Display Timer' that JeffVolp and I have been referring to?...
I hadn't thought about the display. Perhaps it is fluorescent. It's a green display. I could take a picture of it but I haven't figured how to upload a picture as part of a message. The "Insert Image" option appears to require you create a link to somewhere.
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"TAKE THE IMITATIVE" There has to be at least 1 person @ X10 that could wear that hat.
I'll vote for Marko since he's the web designer.
Possibly, if we selected just 1 person at X10 and we all sent e-mails to that person regarding the forum.
That person armed with our e-mails can then take it up the ladder/stairs/elevator or whatever and hopefully get enough support to implement some of the changes we desire.
Should we create a poll ? Possible have it for 7 to 10 days then we all e-mail the person with the most votes ?
;) ;) ;) OR ! Should all of us e-mail everyone at X10 whose e-mail address we can find ?
I'm thinking that first we should settle on just what we want and not everyone sending in differing suggestions.
Once that is settled, we then Storm the Citadel with our e-mails. ;D :D ;) :) ;D
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Note Marko's post a few messages down in this discussion (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=8320.0) where he mentions that he disabled the popups on his pages. I still haven't seen them with a direct link to his 1st page, http://x10minitimer.com/. I've lost track of what other pages they have given him to create. Marko has been with X10 since Jan. His web work has been a refreshing change from what most of X10.com brings us.
This is the previous poll/discussion (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=8833.0) on popups. This discussion primarily was regarding their "experiment" with popups on this support forum. It got quite lively till they removed the popups from here.
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27½, 28, 29 WTH - just ask my wife; I have NO IDEA anymore of how time flies!
ME: We just went out to dinner a few weeks ago.
WIFE: That was TWO MONTHS AGO you !@#$%!!!
Our wives are undobtedly related...mine uses the same phrase constantly.
PS to the above sensless, arrogant, self serving, egotistical post.
ME??? :o
You ARE being funny, right? I was refering to my own post directly above.
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...You ARE being funny, right? I was refering to my own post directly above.
I think TakeTheActive might have just gotten a bit gun shy with all the love he's getting from the other posters. ;)
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I had been hoping to receive some comments on my suggestion that was posted yesterday.
If anyone is truly interested in trying to get the forums improved, let's get something going.
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TakeTheActive is merely a PEST (An annoying person, a nuisance).
Don't agree. "TakeTheActive's " posts and help suggestions have been accurate and on target. He obviously has a couple of decades of X10 follies under his belt. Judging by the liberal sprinkling of smilies and humor, he does not take himself too seriously. I have read his posts and have not walked away with the same impressions of "tone" that you had.
I think the annoying posters are the ones whose querries clearly indicate they have not bothered to read word one of the instructions.
Lighten up - life is fun.
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Don't agree. "TakeTheActive's " posts and help suggestions have been accurate and on target....
True. A bit colorful text perhaps but who am I to comment on that with Murphy moving across the botton of my messages. :)
...I think the annoying posters are the ones whose queries clearly indicate they have not bothered to read word one of the instructions...
I'll even grant a newbie a bit of grace on that one also.
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TakeTheActive is merely a PEST (An annoying person, a nuisance
I completely agree with Dave W on this one. Although sometimes bluntly to the point TakeTheActives advice is well worth considering he obviously has the experience to back it up and aside from that TakeTheActive is the only one who understood my scroll. :D :D
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Steven r,
Regarding posting a photo. It seems to refer back to where ever the actual photo is.
I started to post a photo a while back from my desktop, but when it appeared that it would refer back to my desktop, I didn't post it.
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...I started to post a photo a while back from my desktop, but when it appeared that it would refer back to my desktop, I didn't post it.
My experience also. My guess is you would have to have web space somewhere to link to it. I was hoping to hear from someone that has done it.
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Our wives are undobtedly related...mine uses the same phrase constantly.
PS to the above sensless, arrogant, self serving, egotistical post.
ME??? :o
You ARE being funny, right? I was refering to my own post directly above. [/size]
Hey! I saw the words "sensless, arrogant, self serving, egotistical" in the same post with TakeTheActive!?! :o
I think TakeTheActive might have just gotten a bit gun shy with all the love he's getting from the other posters. ;)
;D
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I personally don't like them and only vote helpful If it helps me with a problem I'm having! the + rating is somewhat helpful for newbies as they can see How helpful someone was in the past. I get many PMs asking for additional help but can only guess that the rating is the reason! ??? ::) ;) the - rating is useless as many have stated!
TakeTheActive: keep up the colorful posts! I've missed them! ;) :D ;D
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TakeTheActive: keep up the colorful posts! I've missed them! ;) :D ;D
Hey Old Buddy! I was worried about you!!
I saw your name in the STATISTICS as a MAJOR CONTRIBUTOR, but didn't see any recent posts - I would imagine that your cabin is complete by now, eh?
P.S. To those of you that ABSOLUTELY HATE my post formatting, *I* was the one who taught Tuicemen over at AccessX10 a couple of years ago... :o
Now that he's back 'online' and appears to have the formatting down pat, I can start ragging him about his SPELLING again! :D ;D
I personally don't like them and only vote helpful If it helps me with a problem I'm having! the + rating is somewhat helpful for newbies as they can see How helpful someone was in the past. I get many PMs asking for additional help but can only guess that the rating is the reason! ??? ::) ;) the - rating is useless as many have stated!
Doesn't that UNBALANCE things, if some folks ONLY vote + (the thankful ones), some folks only vote - (the ANGRY ones), and some folks vote BOTH (IMO, the fairest) ways?!?
I've got another idea on this subject that I might post later on, if I have enough energy left... ::)
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Nice to see that you have all kissed and made up.
Just wanted to let all know that if you haven't been to your local Radio Shack store recently you might want to check out what they have left in X10 products. I got two prong outlet modules for under $4 and a desk top controller for $3. I shopped at a couple of different stores and although the prices were lower than normal at all of them they were not the same at all.
Just thought you would like to know. ::) ::) ;D ;D
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- I would imagine that your cabin is complete by now, eh?
It's not done yet! one of those work inprogresses that never finish ;) :D ;D
Now that he's back 'online' and appears to have the formatting down pat, I can start ragging him about his SPELLING again! :D ;D
At least there is a spell check here when it works! Oh, and if I take the time to do it! ::) ;) :D