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🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: tom j on August 04, 2006, 10:50:02 PM

Title: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: tom j on August 04, 2006, 10:50:02 PM
Say did this guy ever complete this modification seems like it's been a few years in the making. Thanks

http://www.accessx10.com/howto_fconnector_page1.html

Tcj
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: Dan Lawrence on August 04, 2006, 10:56:32 PM
I think it was discussed in the old forum, and may have moved here.  Try searching for it.
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on August 04, 2006, 11:00:22 PM
I don't know.  But, I do know that the best thing that ever happened to my CM15A (RF range-wise anyway) was when my wife accidentally broke the antenna loose where it pivots.  Now there's approximately 1 inch of the white wire hanging out of the case between the case and antenna (and of course the antenna will only point down).  Oddly enough this extended the (virtually non-existant) range it originally had to fairly reasonable range.

By the way, mine is connected to an extension cord and hangs about two antenna-lengths above the floor (measured from the base of the unit).
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: TakeTheActive on August 05, 2006, 03:00:38 AM
Quote from: tom j on August 04, 2006, 10:50:02 PM
Say did this guy ever complete this modification seems like it's been a few years in the making. Thanks

http://www.accessx10.com/howto_fconnector_page1.html

Have you folks ever heard of GOOGLE???  ???
This forum, due to it's relatively 'YOUNG AGE', is certainly *NOT* (yet) the best place to find (all conclusive) X-10 Answers!  :(

TRY:

Other Places to View:

A better antenna for the MR26, W800, and CM15 (http://www.shed.com/tutor/mr26ant.html)

Also, look at Dave Houston's work (preserved thanks to Jelf Volp!):


P.S. If you folks find this information USEFUL, I *STRONGLY* suggest that you CLICK on "HELPFUL" (more than you have in the past!  :o :( )
There are *MANY* folks (besides myself) providing *YOU* with *VALUABLE* information - and it doesn't COST YOU ANYTHING to say THANK YOU!?!  ;)
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: Brian H on August 05, 2006, 06:24:34 AM
Yes it was not that hard to do and with an antenna higher up. Worked well.

Bill made an interesting find, that others may have known. The antenna wire is actually longer than the plastic tube it is in. Older units had the excess randomly balled up in the unit. Newer one hot glued around the case. I  have seen at least one person remove the plastic tube and replace it with a longer one where all the antenna wire is extended. That too added distance to the CM15As reception range.
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: Duck69 on August 05, 2006, 09:54:05 AM
TakeTheActive, Thanks for the links.  ;D
Jim
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: Brian H on August 05, 2006, 11:26:22 AM
TakeThe Active; Thanks for the data.
Do some of us maybe know you as "Clear To land"; as your Avatar looks like one I have seen before.
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: acj_sf on August 05, 2006, 11:10:45 PM
After installing the f-connector to the CM15A can't you just buy a regular TV ant. instead of having to make one yourself? Or am I completely wrong about this?
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on August 05, 2006, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: acj_sf on August 05, 2006, 11:10:45 PM
After installing the f-connector to the CM15A can't you just buy a regular TV ant. instead of having to make one yourself? Or am I completely wrong about this?
The length of the antenna is directly related to the frequency the unit sends / receives on.  Any other length will lose efficiency.
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: Brian H on August 06, 2006, 07:12:13 AM
You really want someting tuned to the X10 310Mhz but since the CM15A RF transmitter has a different antenna than the RF receiver. The TV antenna MAY give some improvements. Though most are directional and may improve reception from one direction only. The example antennas are tuned to the 310Mhz and are not directional. You may also have to use a 300 Ohm to 75 Ohm converter as many TV Antennas are 300 Ohm.
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: acj_sf on August 07, 2006, 12:12:46 AM
thanks for the clear-up. does anyone have more links to different types of ant. that can be made/used?
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: tom j on August 07, 2006, 12:26:31 AM
Quote from: Brian H on August 05, 2006, 06:24:34 AM
Yes it was not that hard to do and with an antenna higher up. Worked well.

Bill made an interesting find, that others may have known. The antenna wire is actually longer than the plastic tube it is in. Older units had the excess randomly balled up in the unit. Newer one hot glued around the case. I  have seen at least one person remove the plastic tube and replace it with a longer one where all the antenna wire is extended. That too added distance to the CM15As reception range.

Hi Brian, now that sound like something I might want to try but where did he get the longer one. Thanks

Tcj
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: Brian H on August 07, 2006, 07:03:46 AM
Hobby shops have plastic tubes and you should be able to find a close match. Since X10 is made in China [metric] I believe I had to find a close fit tube. I was going to try it, but went off on the Add an 'F' connector thing. Though I still have the tubing and a few more CM15As.
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: dave w on August 07, 2006, 12:33:22 PM
Tom j and acj_sf
FWIW
Don't know how much range increase you are looking for.  I decided to go the lazy route and was very pleased with results.

I found an old 10 foot length of TV antenna coax with F connector on one end. The other end, I stripped back the foil and braid ground for 18 inches from the end of coax (leave the foam insulator around the copper center conductor). I then put a hole in the ceiling above the CM15A (which is hidden in a closet), and jammed the 18 inch antenna up into the attic.

I can hit the CM15A from at least 50 feet around outside of house. If I braved the attic heat and pulled more of the coax up into attic to get the 18 inch radiating center conductor, up to roof peak level, I could probably improve range even more. Also as pointed out in the Dave Houston, article I am not precisely one wave length. I suppose I could tweak even more by making my coax an even increment of the 310 MHz wave length, but gee we are talking real work now.
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: TakeTheActive on August 07, 2006, 03:42:21 PM
Quote from: Brian H on August 05, 2006, 11:26:22 AM
Do some of us maybe know you as "Clear To land"; as your Avatar looks like one I have seen before.
Gosh durn avatar gave my cover away, huh? :)

Or was it the "Tuicemen"? Did he squeal on me?  >:(

 ;D 8) ;D
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: TakeTheActive on August 07, 2006, 04:07:37 PM
Quote from: Otis69 on August 05, 2006, 09:54:05 AM
TakeTheActive, Thanks for the links.  ;D

Quote from: Brian H on August 05, 2006, 11:26:22 AM
TakeThe Active; Thanks for the data.

Thanks for the thanks (and possibly a 'Helpful' or two), but you 'core' guys aren't the audience that I'm attempting to contact - it's the 10 Guests / 3 Users (or 20 Guests / 6 Users).

I'd like to see a Newbie spend AT LEAST A DAY reading here *BEFORE* posting a question (just check a few of the current crop of Newbies and you'll see what I mean :( ). Then, when they read something 'Helpful', ACKNOWLEDGE IT!  :o


[Enough of the boring "soapbox" - we now return you to your normally scheduled programming]
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: Tuicemen on August 22, 2006, 04:13:30 PM
Quote from: TakeTheActive on August 07, 2006, 03:42:21 PM
Gosh durn avatar gave my cover away, huh? :)

Or was it the "Tuicemen"? Did he squeal on me?  >:(

 ;D 8) ;D
Hey! I'd only do that if they asked! ;) :D ;D ::)(maybe!)
Your Posting style as well as your Avatar gave you away! ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: TakeTheActive on August 24, 2006, 04:29:25 AM
Quote from: Tuicemen on August 22, 2006, 04:13:30 PM
Quote from: TakeTheActive on August 07, 2006, 03:42:21 PM
Gosh durn avatar gave my cover away, huh? :)

Or was it the "Tuicemen"? Did he squeal on me?  >:(

 ;D 8) ;D
Hey! I'd only do that if they asked! ;) :D ;D ::)(maybe!)
Your Posting style as well as your Avatar gave you away! ;) :D ;D

Hey "Tuicemen",

Do you have any idea who BLH and Otis05 are?  ???  ::)  ;)
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: JMac on August 24, 2006, 07:29:43 AM
Here is a quarter-wave antenna which I plan to build and see if I can increase my CM15A range:

http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=126

By the way, the brass rods in the article can be purchased from a welding supply and came in 3-foot sections.  I bought 3/16" diameter as that was all that was available.  $6 a pound (about 12 three-foot sections)
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: Tuicemen on August 24, 2006, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: TakeTheActive on August 24, 2006, 04:29:25 AM

Hey "Tuicemen",

Do you have any idea who BLH and Otis05 are?  ???  ::)  ;)
Should I? ???  ;)
They have both posted on ACCESSHA as well!
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: TakeTheActive on August 24, 2006, 07:23:21 PM
Quote from: Tuicemen on August 24, 2006, 05:55:07 PM
Should I? ???  ;)
They have both posted on ACCESSHA as well!


W W H H O O O O S S H H H H H H. . . . . . . . . .

That was the sound of my JOKE going right over your head! ::)  :P  ;D

Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: Tuicemen on August 24, 2006, 07:50:53 PM
You Got the same responce they would have !
Quote
Should I? ??? ;)   
Had they Asked!
Quote
That was the sound of my JOKE going right over your head!     
Actualy it bounced off! Things don't sink in after a day at the plant telling robots what to do! ::)
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: nklght on September 19, 2006, 12:38:46 AM
I guess I am one of the lucky/ unlucky users of the CM15A.  When I first received my CM15A, I located it in a favorable location and could not get a majority of my remotes to work with it;  we had to stand in the right place and have the remote positioned just right in order to receive any response,  I was considering an antenna mod to be performed after the warranty expired.  While under warranty my unit just stopped working; after jumping through hoops, I received a new unit.  I plugged it in, configured, uploaded my timers and macros, and the first thing we noticed was that we did not have to be contortionist in order to use the remotes.  Two weeks ago I moved my office down to the basement and have not had an issue with the CM15A and range, I am now able to set up my motion sensors and have them work properly.  My little piece of advice is not to tamper with the unit while it is under warranty.  I consider myself a lucky user of the CM15A, because the unit totally failed and I was able to get a replacement unit which operated as promised and exceeded my expectations.  I am an unlucky user of the CM15A because I had to remove all my plug-in modules and operate everything manually, while going through tech support and waiting for the new unit.  Until actual spec sheets are provided for the CM15A, people are going into a crapshoot, and are unable to determine if the product is working properly, but is malfunctioning because of their setup, or if the unit is defective.  Like I said before, I was considering all sorts of fixes to cure the problems with my setup, but I was lucky because the unit completely failed, and with the new unit 99% of my problems were corrected.
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: robster on September 29, 2006, 08:33:57 PM
I've been away from the Forum for a while.  I did this modification, except I used an FM antenna that you get with virtually any receiver these days.  I mounted it inside an upstairs interior wall while our new house was being built.  I have full coverage throughtout the entire 4400 sq ft house, plus in the yard within 30 feet of the house.  NOTES: I use line filters in front of all PCs and stereo equipment, and I bridged the phases with a 220-volt dryer plug-in.  I've had no reliability problems with this setup.

I'm currently using timers on a variety of lights, and just finished installing an automated outside waterfall feature and automated landscape lighting.  I use motion sensors to light up a translucent onyx sink and to light up my media room for about a minute when I walk in.  More to come as I find the time and imagination.

robster
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: tom j on October 04, 2006, 09:32:04 PM
Quote from: robster on September 29, 2006, 08:33:57 PM
I've been away from the Forum for a while.  I did this modification, except I used an FM antenna that you get with virtually any receiver these days.  I mounted it inside an upstairs interior wall while our new house was being built.  I have full coverage throughtout the entire 4400 sq ft house, plus in the yard within 30 feet of the house.  NOTES: I use line filters in front of all PCs and stereo equipment, and I bridged the phases with a 220-volt dryer plug-in.  I've had no reliability problems with this setup.

I'm currently using timers on a variety of lights, and just finished installing an automated outside waterfall feature and automated landscape lighting.  I use motion sensors to light up a translucent onyx sink and to light up my media room for about a minute when I walk in.  More to come as I find the time and imagination.

robster

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooow... I like it I like it! say how did you connect it to the old antenna. Thanks

Tcj
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: robster on October 15, 2006, 07:31:02 AM
For full instructions on modding the antenna, please go to http://www.shed.com/tutor/CM15mods/CM15mods.html .  Outstanding instructions, plus helpful pictures.  My biggest change was this: instead of using a co-ax connector, I took the two antenna wires and put on spade ends, which I have hanging out of the CM15A by about an inch.  This way I can attach or unattach my antenna (great for moving the CM15A for tests).  As I said earlier, range is superb.  No problems at all. 

Oh, I recently added a motion detector in my home office so that when I walk into the home office the lights come on and stay on until I leave, then the lights go off after about five minutes.  Very handy.  Rob
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: SteveRF on October 30, 2006, 01:22:57 PM
Well...I extended the range on my CM15A way last year by clipping the top of the existing antenna, soldering an extention "tiny insulated wire"  extending the total to about 19" and viola...great reception and at a cost of zip and no internal mod and Quick to do... The only problem still exists... The CM15a is still not "fast enough" and does not seem to have any store and forward capability so that 2 or more motion sensor signals arriving about the same time creates an ignore situation for one and u sit in a dark room for 5 to 10 seconds waiting for the signal to get processed from the next activation.... I simply cannot imagine some of these folks saying they have motion detectors all over a 3 to 4k square foot house and kids running around getting any good automation response from motion sensor activated programming...
... O well, I thought after sitting back for 6-8 months that a "new and improved" model would be available.
..darn...  guess the $$ are really the driving force.
SteveRF
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on October 30, 2006, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: SteveRF on October 30, 2006, 01:22:57 PM
The CM15a is still not "fast enough" and does not seem to have any store and forward capability so that 2 or more motion sensor signals arriving about the same time creates an ignore situation
Due to the nature of the RF signal, more than one simultaneous transmissions results in an invalid X10 command being received. So it's not so much a speed issue as it is a method issue. [This is where a BIG concern exists for the security modules being easily jammed.]

Quote from: SteveRF on October 30, 2006, 01:22:57 PM
guess the $$ are really the driving force.

GOOD, FAST, CHEAP.... pick two  ;)
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: nklght on November 23, 2006, 11:34:33 PM
I checked out the link robster supplied, but all I recieved were a bunch of pics and none of the written material on how the fix was created.  I was curious if I did that fix can I physically move the location of the antenna, while leaving the CM15A in place.  Due to the addition of a newcomer in the family my office and the CM15A have been moved down to a corner in the basement.  We still recieve descent reception, but sometimes the same code has to be sent several times to get a response.  I was thinking of doing the f-connector mod to the CM15A, running coax rg-6 up 6 feet and over 10 feet, and then attaching it to an antenna in a wall which is in the middle of the house.  I don't see why this wouldn't work since coax is shielded, but the amount of resistance created could ruin the signal.  Any advice would be helpful.     
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on November 24, 2006, 12:07:32 AM
nklght: What you want to do to extend the PC - CM15A distance will work. I have done the external antenna mod as well.

I use a 6' USB extender cable to connect my CM15A (on the main floor) to my PC (in the basement) which is fished up the wall. And I have my antenna connected to the CM15A with ~15' of coax, which is located approx. at the top / centre of my house. I get good reception from all my sensors & remotes.

As long as you use good coax cable & connections, you should be OK.

However, you should NOT USE RG-6. It is a 75 Ohm cable. Your signal will be degraded due to reflections since RF Antennas are generally 50 Ohms. So, use a 50 Ohm cable like RG-58. 75 Ohm Cables are mainly used for Cable / Satellite TV.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: nklght on November 25, 2006, 03:56:32 AM
Thanks for pointing that out,
I never considered that some cable grades are not suitable for RF.  I know what is best to use at home for A/V, but have never considered what is best for RF.  My problem is that the prime location is a wall with no electric, I pulled the USB trick when my office was upstairs, and was able to move the CM15A closer to a central location by running a USB line, but we still had to move around the house inorder to get the unit recieve the remote signals.  I am wondering what type of antenna I should put in the wall and if I do the f-connector mod, can I connect the new antenna to the CM15A.  I want to run my CM15A with an antenna loctated 15-20 feet away.  Using f-connectors, the appropriate coax, and antenna, that should be possible.   
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on November 25, 2006, 06:35:17 AM
As a test I used the antenna from a WGL V572AB and it worked well. I think in another thread someone indicated that they where able to get just the antenna as a replacement part form WGL.
I have also seen a few construction projects to make one. One I remember had 4 ground plane elements sticking out at 90 degrees from each other. That one maybe harder to use in a wall.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Duck69 on November 25, 2006, 06:00:15 PM
That was yours truly back in May. Here is the info. :)

For those of you who do not want to build your own antenna you can purchase an antenna kit (antenna & mounting bracket) from WGL and associates.  8)

Web site & e-mail : http://www.wgldesigns.com  wgl@wgldesigns.com 
You can't order just the antenna kit from the web site.  ???

You can write to:
WGL & Associates
5418 Lancashire
San Antonio, TX 78230
or
Call: (210)342-2858
The cost is $8 plus $5 S&H
 ;D 8) ;D
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: medvampire on December 07, 2006, 09:57:58 PM
I did the mod for the f connector listed at this site.
http://www.accessha.com/howto_fconnector_page1.html
I don't have a great antenna on just a chunk of cable plugged in the f connector going up the wall and about 12 inches of the inner core stripped. I have about 150 ft range up from about 25 ft.
I have removed the repeater from the system witch removed some of the delay issues.
I was not too impressed with X10 until I done this mod but the WAF  ;D and my approval is on the upswing.
I did take note of another antenna in the box. Is the transmit antenna on a separate daughter card on the main board of the CM15? If this is the case the receive antenna may not be a crital design but the transmit would be a case where you will need to match the lenght of the areal to match the frequency and SWR of the sending circut.
Steve
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on December 07, 2006, 11:11:28 PM
Quote from: medvampire on December 07, 2006, 09:57:58 PM
I did take note of another antenna in the box. Is the transmit antenna on a separate daughter card on the main board of the CM15? If this is the case the receive antenna may not be a crital design but the transmit would be a case where you will need to match the lenght of the areal to match the frequency and SWR of the sending circut.

Yes, the Transmitter & the Receiver are on different daughter cards. The internal antenna is the Transmit one... and oddly enough, it has good range. I haven't had any problems with it and I can't recall any posts here complaining about it either. Maybe not enough people actually use this feature(?).

Since generally everyone does use the receiver, more range issues are mentioned here. Therefore, the length of the the receiver's antenna becomes a more important issue to achieve maximum efficiency.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on December 11, 2006, 12:21:47 PM
Quote from: Duck69 on December 11, 2006, 11:49:57 AM
I've been trying to find RG58 50 Ohn cable with Coax connectors to no avail.   :o

Standard F-Connectors are generally only found on 75-Ohm cables (RG-6, RG-59).
You most likely would have to build your own. (I do believe the standard F-connector will fit on RG-58 cable.)

Or you could get a pre-made Radio Shack BNC Cable (http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=coax%20rg-58&origkw=coax%20rg-58) and use an BNC Plug to "F" Jack Adapter (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104083&cp=&origkw=bnc+to+F&kw=bnc+to+f&parentPage=search). Or replace the Female F-Connector on your mod'ed CM15A to a BNC Chassis-Mount Jack (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103430&cp=&origkw=bnc&kw=bnc&parentPage=search).


Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on December 11, 2006, 06:07:05 PM
Just to confuse us more. My WGL V572A came with a 12' coax cable. F connectors on each end and it is RG6U. Yes 75 ohm.
Duck69 do you need 50 ohm with an F connector or did you use a different type on your mod?
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on December 11, 2006, 06:40:31 PM
Quote from: Brian H on December 11, 2006, 06:07:05 PM
Just to confuse us more. My WGL V572A came with a 12' coax cable. F connectors on each end and it is RG6U. Yes 75 ohm.

Most likely reason for this is economical; RG-6 is cheaper and more readily available to the user if 12' is not long enough. A mono-pole antenna (like the V572A) has an impedance of 37 Ohms when it's length is 1/4-wavelength of the intended frequency. This is why 50-Ohm cable is better to use than 75-Ohm. I would not be surprised if WGL loads their antenna & receiver to match a 75-Ohm transmission line.

That's the theory side of it anyways.  ;)
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on December 12, 2006, 06:51:33 AM
Puck; Makes sense. My RF theory is getting rusty as I no longer do Two Way Radio Repair and my FCC Radio Telephone License gatehers dust.  ::)
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on December 12, 2006, 02:50:07 PM
I just did a calculation of the front end of the CM15A's receiver. They have an 82nH inductor (L4) in parallel with a 68-Ohm resistor (R4).

The inductive reactance of L4 at 310MHz is 160-Ohms.

160-Ohms in parallel with 68-Ohms give an impedance of 47.7-Ohms @ 310MHz.  ;)

Duck69: you said your setup has been working quite well; then you shouldn't see worse operation with 50-Ohm cable. :D

Hopefully you had some questionable areas to get a better idea if this made a difference.

Quote
BTW: The UM506 has problems responding when COLD. The one I have in the garage takes several tries. After that it works with the first try.

KDR is experiencing a similar problem (UM506 Universal Module Cold Weather (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10823.0)), and I have an appliance module in my garage that stuck in the on position when the temperature dropped closed to -30C a couple weeks ago (it's working again in normal temperatures).

Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Duck69 on January 03, 2007, 03:10:57 PM
I was finally able to check things out.

 ;D The RG58 does make a difference. Longer range, very reliable.  ;D

LOCATION is very important, so don't go putting holes in your house before thinking it out.

I put it in a closet, hung it on a curtain rod, fed it through a vent and hung it out a window.

Hanging it out the window and hanging it on an attic vent (Vinyl), worked best (FOR ME).  ;D

Everyones home is different, so what has worked out best for me won't necessarily work out for you.
So, I highly recommend testing it in several different locations.

Next I will be drilling a hole from the closet where the CM15A is plugged in to the outside and permanently mounting it.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on January 03, 2007, 03:19:30 PM
That's good to hear it had an improvement Duck69  :)

Did it improve a previous issue with Abyssmal Range with Slimfires and Credit Card Remotes (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9587.0)?  ;)
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: dave w on January 04, 2007, 12:31:32 PM
Hey RF guys,  need some help here!

As Brian said earlier, my RF is rusty (heck my Ohms Law is rusty...but I digress). My simple antenna coupled to the modified CM15A is a coax with 18 inches of shield stripped back. The 18 inches of center conductor and foam covering is stuck up through the ceiling into the attic. It works pretty well, but I have a couple of dead spots and am wondering if a 1/4 wave would work better? Initially I went with the 1/2 wave because the "That was easy" antenna design I used, obviously has no ground plane.
If I went to a 1/4 wave, the best ground plane I could make, would be cookie sheet baking pan with a hole in the middle for the coax shield.

Any thoughts on how effective this might be?
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on January 04, 2007, 01:00:23 PM
Quote from: dave w on January 04, 2007, 12:31:32 PM
If I went to a 1/4 wave, the best ground plane I could make, would be cookie sheet baking pan with a hole in the middle for the coax shield.

Dave: Since you are effectively making a mono-pole antenna, you should use a 1/4 wavelength. Even thought the cookie sheet would probably work as a ground plane, I can see it acting as a shield to anything that is below it in it's RF shadow. Since you will basically be cutting half of your current antenna off, just take that piece and solder it to the cable's shield and place it horizontally.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: dave w on January 04, 2007, 01:46:51 PM
Quote from: Puck on January 04, 2007, 01:00:23 PM

[ Even thought the cookie sheet would probably work as a ground plane, I can see it acting as a shield to anything that is below it in it's RF shadow.

oops I hadn't even considered that, although there aren't any motion detectors for at least 10 feet from antenna location, there could be a Palm Pad used in the shadow.

OK I'll make it a quarter wave this weekend and let you know if I eliminated the dead spots.

Thanks!

...now about those two parallel resistor that I can't figure I/R drop across   ;)
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: teez67f on January 11, 2007, 10:59:30 PM
I've been reading all your posts since sept2006 when i purchased X-10 for the first time and having crappy range till now.Here is a mod i read on access ha forums which i tried and it works ... damn it works. :

In the last few weeks I bought the CM15A Active home pro kit with all the software modules. I did this finally after years of X10 with a pair of CP290's and one CM11A. I have been having a lot of fun learning the new Pro software but I too had some range trouble with my DS10A's. I have a 2600 sq/ft house and a mailbox DS10A that weren't making the distance.

Of course I found the F connector mod at this site but didn't feel like fiddling around that much so I dusted off my radio engineering days. Via this forum I grew to understand the unit has a quarter wave antenna. So I figured I could make a half wave by adding onto the existing antenna. Again via this forum I found it was a 310MHz transmitter. Using an on line wavelength calculator,I soldered 9.5 inches of copper wire on the end of the existing antenna after very carefully clipping off bit by bit,the hollow tube the wire antenna is in until I had about half inch of the inside antenna wire exposed.

Then I used another small plastic tube to slide the existing and newly soldered on antenna wire inside to keep it rigid and vertical.

I went to the about 100 feet away mailbox and it worked perfectly. All my DA10A transducer were now working perfectly. Although its only been a few hours its been working 100% I'm expecting it should work just fine and there will be no attenuation of the signal associated with coax and F connections. Plus it took me about an hour including the time to dig out my old soldering iron. And I never had to split the case.

I thought I would share this....

RA

Did not get to thank this person but it restored my faith in X-10(was thinking of scrapping and going insteon) but it works.
 Also Eric Boyd (X-10 Tech support) helped me fix my coupling and noise problems with his tips and tricks.Also told me SR731 discontinued which is good news.


Any how this is the email i sent him and let me tell you the range i am stating is that!!

Got so excited i went out in my pyjamas in the back yard with an eagle eye and its -15c here.the kids think I've lost it lol but after all the crap X-10 is working almost 100%.

Anyhow you should try it because it definitely works!!

Have a good one!

p.s. By the way thanks to bill and puck and all the others who help us by posting tricks and tips for the newbies like me.By the way Tuiceman I've tried some of your software and so far so good.Got it almost figured out.great job.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: teez67f on January 11, 2007, 11:09:38 PM
OOps sorry about that still frozen here is the mail forgot to put it.The range is true give or take a few feet.

Really incredible range now but also with my coupling and noise issues gone the response time on commands is quick and reliable.Except as someone posted if too many coming in at same time it gets lost sometimes but it still is good.

By the way forgot to thank bill as well if i'm not mistaken created the phone program for ahp amongst others.Like i said im newbie to this but if you guys were not there X-10 would of flew out the door in september.Going to have hot cocoa to defrost and sit with kids.Good luck with the mod.


a/s eric boyd x-10 tech
You're responses kind of got my curiousity going and now the X-10 is finally working the way it should for the first time since September!!!
 
Also solved my range problem Big time!!
 
I clipped the plastic cover off CM15A antenna about 1/2 inch and soldered a piece of bare 14 gauge copper wire 9.5 inches long (as per forum senior member) onto CM15A antenna and voila!!!
 
My range has increased three fold and now reaches the entire house and then some.
 
Credit card remote went from a measly 15 ft. range to well over 50 ft. and the once useless sticky switches with a range of 5ft. now work at 30ft. from downstairs to top it all off.
 
All security sensors now register including the worst one which never worked 9 out of 10 times to working constantly.
 
Will try re-installing PZZ-01 even though all is working now to see if it makes things even better.
 
You guys should modify the CM15A antenna to improve the range.Win Win for X-10 if you do.
 
Tested eagle eye outside (damn it's cold) went end of backyard and ahp see's it.
 
That's an amazing 85ft. through one brick wall and one drywall.
 
Thanks again Eric for the help and tips.Have a good one!
 
 
P.S.Worst part is got RMA for CM15a because of problems and now it's flying.Yeah I know with mod done warranty is void but who cares with this range.Half wave antenna's rock!!
 
 
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on January 12, 2007, 12:53:55 AM
Quote from: teez67f on January 11, 2007, 11:09:38 PM
By the way forgot to thank bill as well if i'm not mistaken created the phone program for ahp amongst others.

If you mean me, I created BXVC.  If you mean the telephone control program, I think you need to thank Tuicemen for that!

Thanks either way though!  Glad you got it working and for those who can solder, your solution is easier than trying to track down connectors, correct coax cable, special antenna designs, etc.

So, thank you too!

Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on January 12, 2007, 09:23:31 AM
teez67f: Welcome to the forum. And thanks for sharing the success of your CM15A antenna mod. It gives others, who are not comfortable with opening the unit, another option to improve their reception range.

Based on the sorry excuse for an antenna (half of it folded & glued to the PCB inside) of the CM15A, adding the extra 1/4 wavelength may have theoretically made the antenna a 1/2 wavelength, but in practicality you added a real 1/4 wave antenna for signal reception with the original mostly just acting as an internal transmission line. They should have designed a fully exposed (and straight) 1/4 wave antenna in the first place.

I may do this mod with my 2nd CM15A I just picked up to use as a monitoring and for testing. Don't really feel like running another cable and installing a 2nd antenna in the attic.  :D  :)

Cheers
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: netvalue on January 16, 2007, 01:51:39 PM
I just received my CM15A and other X10 modules. A quick temporary set-up revealed that I was going to have some RF reception issues between my farthest MS16A motion sensors and the CM15.

Searching this forum, I came across this topic and decided to make the CM15 modifications suggested by teez67f.

I did change teez67f's mod slightly. Instead of adding 9.5 inches of wire to the existing CM15 antenna, I only added 5 inches. My reasoning was based on Puck’s antenna insight/comment of “half of it folded & glued to the PCB inside…mostly just acting as an internal transmission line”. Believing that only approx. 4.5 inches of the optimal 9.5 inches is present/usable in the non-modified CM15A, I added only enough wire to ensure that the total antenna length (existing straight section plus new extension) equals 9.5 inches.

The modification took less than (15) minutes and has DOUBLED the reception distance of my CM15. The range of the MS16A Motion Sensor increased from 55 feet to 110 feet. The range of PalmPad Remote (HR12A) increased  from 65 to 130 feet.

Of course, these measurements were made with fresh batteries in all remotes and a better than "real world" test environment. Additional details of the test set-up, results and modifications are captured in the attached PDF file.

THANKS to Puck, teez67f and the many others for your extremely helpful advice and insight...

Note: Couldn't get the attached PDF file (34KB) to upload, so I'll try to attach in a later post.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Dan Lawrence on January 16, 2007, 02:50:55 PM
You might think the suits at X10 would get the hint after four pages of posts on how to easily increase the range of a CM15A that the production models would have the antenna mods that don't require any major mods except extending the antenna, but NO!!!!!!!   >:(

As a user of AHP and the CM15A, in order to get decent RF reception X10 wants you buy a tranciever to get things like remotes and Stick-a-Switch units to work properly, which put a little money in the account of my local X10 dealer. :)

My unmodifed CM15A won't recieve the RF signal from my KR19A if I hold it one half inch from the 15's antenna.   BOO!!! HISS!!!  >:(
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on January 16, 2007, 04:26:10 PM
Well about 1/2 of the original antenna is inside the case and not stretched out. Old units in a random ball of tangles and newer ones hot glued around the case. Even the full one in the plastic antenna tube would help.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Dan Lawrence on January 16, 2007, 04:45:16 PM
The BIG problem is any mod voids the warrenty.

That's why I posted about the X10 suits not paying a bit of attention to this board (which they set up) for RF problems so easily fixed at X10's level. Since the CM15's RF recipt is so poor, why don't they fix it, once and for all????

Of course, a company that would sell an old product (Active Home and the CM11A) in a fancy new suit to unsuspecting people, what can you expect?
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on January 16, 2007, 06:41:08 PM
OH yes can't be stressed enough. Any mods and you own it lock; stock and barrel. No warranties.  ???
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: tom j on January 22, 2007, 12:11:40 AM
Quote from: teez67f on January 11, 2007, 10:59:30 PM
I've been reading all your posts since sept2006 when i purchased X-10 for the first time and having crappy range till now.Here is a mod i read on access ha forums which i tried and it works ... damn it works. :

In the last few weeks I bought the CM15A Active home pro kit with all the software modules. I did this finally after years of X10 with a pair of CP290's and one CM11A. I have been having a lot of fun learning the new Pro software but I too had some range trouble with my DS10A's. I have a 2600 sq/ft house and a mailbox DS10A that weren't making the distance.

Of course I found the F connector mod at this site but didn't feel like fiddling around that much so I dusted off my radio engineering days. Via this forum I grew to understand the unit has a quarter wave antenna. So I figured I could make a half wave by adding onto the existing antenna. Again via this forum I found it was a 310MHz transmitter. Using an on line wavelength calculator,I soldered 9.5 inches of copper wire on the end of the existing antenna after very carefully clipping off bit by bit,the hollow tube the wire antenna is in until I had about half inch of the inside antenna wire exposed.

Then I used another small plastic tube to slide the existing and newly soldered on antenna wire inside to keep it rigid and vertical.

I went to the about 100 feet away mailbox and it worked perfectly. All my DA10A transducer were now working perfectly. Although its only been a few hours its been working 100% I'm expecting it should work just fine and there will be no attenuation of the signal associated with coax and F connections. Plus it took me about an hour including the time to dig out my old soldering iron. And I never had to split the case.

I thought I would share this....

RA

Did not get to thank this person but it restored my faith in X-10(was thinking of scrapping and going insteon) but it works.
 Also Eric Boyd (X-10 Tech support) helped me fix my coupling and noise problems with his tips and tricks.Also told me SR731 discontinued which is good news.


Any how this is the email i sent him and let me tell you the range i am stating is that!!

Got so excited i went out in my pyjamas in the back yard with an eagle eye and its -15c here.the kids think I've lost it lol but after all the crap X-10 is working almost 100%.

Anyhow you should try it because it definitely works!!

Have a good one!

p.s. By the way thanks to bill and puck and all the others who help us by posting tricks and tips for the newbies like me.By the way Tuiceman I've tried some of your software and so far so good.Got it almost figured out.great job.


Now that's what I'm talking about! going to definitely try this approach I really didn't like a lot or the others because of aesthetics some of the previous modes were just plain ugly this one seems to really be the best approach and the range increase was excellent. One question where did you get that little plastic tube and did you cap it off with anything to maintain that OEM look.   Thanks

Tom j
Title: Re: Project To Increased Range CM15A
Post by: tom j on January 22, 2007, 12:28:08 AM
Quote from: Brian H on August 07, 2006, 07:03:46 AM
Hobby shops have plastic tubes and you should be able to find a close match. Since X10 is made in China [metric] I believe I had to find a close fit tube. I was going to try it, but went off on the Add an 'F' connector thing. Though I still have the tubing and a few more CM15As.

Just saw the answer to my question anyway to cap it off to give it that OEM look? Thanks

Tom j
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: jdacal on January 22, 2007, 10:14:07 PM
Hi everybody, I'm new to the forums and looking forward to participating often!

Here's my spin on this very neat idea that was originally proposed at the start of this topic.  Hats off to those who did the original research. :)

Please note that my fix here does not claim any huge gains in range since I have not really put any time into research.  I can tell you that I have eliminated 4 transceivers, basically had to have one at each  corner of the house because the CM15A was not picking up crap.

So on with my mod.  I found an old FM radio with a telescoping antenna in the garage.  Cut off the antenna at the base.  Trimmed about a 1/2" off the  antenna on the CM15A to expose the antenna wire and fold it back down the length of itself.

Slid the telescoping antenna over the CM15A antenna, and POOF!  Eliminated four (4) transceivers!  It is even picking up a slim switch that was only about 5 feet away (through a wall), but that I had been having to use one of the transceivers for.

Again... I am not sure if the range is as great as in the prior mods that were described, but only because I haven't taken the time to check it.  But I can say that its working great for me.

Here's some pictures:


(http://sawgrasstech.com/darthmyr/pict0005.jpg)

Cut off antenna exposing about 1/2" of cable then folded cable back down over antenna.  (This picture was prior to cutting 1/2" actually shows less but it was too little)


(http://sawgrasstech.com/darthmyr/pict0006.jpg)

View of unit with telescoping antenna slid over the original antenna (the bare wire inside makes contact with the new antenna)


(http://sawgrasstech.com/darthmyr/pict0007.jpg)

Other view of telescoping antenna.

The ideal thing would be to find a supplier that actually carries a telescoping antenna that would be an exact replacement (at the base) for the one in the unit).

Well I'm a happy camper, I hope this version can help some of you as well. :)

Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: tom j on January 23, 2007, 01:55:34 PM
Say jdacal You know I was thinking about the very same thing, just trotting on down to radio shack and finding a replacement antenna for a small TV or radio, I know everyone talks about the thing having to have the proper frequency 310 MHz or something but the antenna on my DS7000 as far I can tell is  just a regular radio shack style antenna that you find on most little radios and portable TV's and I can easily go 1/2 a block or more with perfect reception. I'm thinking a antenna just like the one on the DS7000 console would do the trick and I think I'll give it a try, but before I do could you check for us all and give us an approximation of the range you have now with the modification in feet, whats the furthest distance to can go with one of those  palm remotes. Who ever let this thing out the barn with this kind of reception in my case maybe 15 feet maybe should have be fired!!!!!!! this havs been nothing short of a disaster for all of use. Thanks!!

Tom j
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on January 24, 2007, 06:51:52 AM
In the CO area this has been pointed out. Hope it gets fixed shortly.
Not clear if this folder full thing is for each user. Do you have other stuff uploaded?
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: JMac on January 24, 2007, 11:00:58 AM
It seems that many problems are antenna related.  From the CM15A to the motion and door/window sensors, every one seems to be making modifications.  Even the wireless cameras are now being modified.  From a real world perspective these designs just don't seem to cut it.  Does it look like some legal reason why the range was limited in these designs, or is it just that someone was putting together a system that would work from desk to desk?  A mystery! Don't get me wrong, I love fooling around with X-10 but I can see the frustration in some of the new comers.  Maybe it's time for an upgrade in the hardware.  Dream on, right?
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Tuicemen on January 24, 2007, 11:24:46 AM
Duck69 & Brian H Problem seems to be: the folder is user based  
Suggestion:
Go through your older posts and decide which pics are of no use and remove them this should clear some room for newer pics.
Or create a web page at one of the many free hosting sites (store your pics there) and just post a link to that! ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on January 24, 2007, 12:18:34 PM
Thank you for the added information on the full folder.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Musicman50 on January 27, 2007, 05:19:52 PM
I was about to send my CM15A and all my DS10 units back, because I could not get them to work more than 20 feet from the CM15A.
Then I read this post here about adding some length to its existing antenna.

What I tried even simpler seems to work for me.
I simply taped a 9.5 inch piece of 14 gauge bare wire on to the side of the existing small antenna on the CM15A.
I did not cut or remove the original antenna (In fact I did nothing to it), because I did want to hurt my warranty in the event I actually want to return it.
Anyway this simple mod actually works, and I can now get the DS10's to trigger events in the Active home software.

Maybe someone can jump in a tell me why just putting a 9.5 inch of 14 gauge wire next to the existing cm15a antenna gives it much more distance?

Anyway my simple modification allows the CM15A to pick up all 8 DS10's from all over my home now, 100 feet or more through two walls even..

Hey whats wrong with these people at X10 anyway ??

It looks like a no brainier that the CM15A just needs a longer antenna..

And this unit has been around a few year now.. Go Figure??

Anyway the CM15A will not work with my HomeSeer software, as there are so many better interfaces around,
but I still can program macros with the quirky and problematic ActiveHome Pro software and download it to the CM15A for running
my lights and some nice macros without a computer.

Eventually I will use the DS10's in part of my existing Caddx Alarm system.

Phil

Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on January 27, 2007, 05:45:01 PM
Quote from: Musicman50 on January 27, 2007, 05:19:52 PM
Maybe someone can jump in a tell me why just putting a 9.5 inch of 14 gauge wire next to the existing cm15a antenna gives it much more distance?

You added a passive reflector.... E.G. Yagi  ;)

Because it's small and very close to the existing antenna, it shouldn't have much effect on changing the omni antenna to a directional one.

Such a simple manufacturing fix... maybe someday... dream dream dream...

Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Musicman50 on January 28, 2007, 02:42:09 PM
Puck, I must agree it should not have much effect on its out put, but indeed it does.
In my case it extends reception from my DS10's from about only 20 feet to at least 100 feet.
After I am done testing this I will actually solder the longer antenna to the existing antenna.
From what I read hear some say 9.5 inches in length is suitable, while another says the CM15 has about 4 inches folded up in the unit,
so maybe 5.5 added length will work better.

I have also read in another post that simply putting a 9.5 inch 14 gauge wire taped directly to the side of the DS10 will also greatly increase its distance.

Again I wonder why X10 did not put a longer more stable antenna on the CM15A ??

Seems to have been proven by several posts that it works better if extended.

Any comments welcome

Phil


Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Tuicemen on January 28, 2007, 05:13:08 PM
Quote from: Duck69 on January 24, 2007, 12:45:37 PM
Tuicemen,
If the folder is user based then, either it doesn't get emptied when you delete a post that has a photo OR someone else is using my account to post photos.  ;D  ;D  ;D
You may notice that my post count is only 192.
I go through my posts every so often and delete those that I'm able to that are no longer revelent.
Of course there are those that, even though I wish to, I can't delete. But none of those has any photos.
The only photo I have on the forum is my avatar. Does the avatar count ? It's only 12k anyway.
In the past I have posted photos such as my control page on Google and not on this forum.
So, since I'm not using the space allocated to me; Why can't I up-load even a 44k photo ?
Looks as if it is more complex then I first though. I too suffer from this error And left messages for X10 in the community organizer section about this!
I had knoticed some users posting pics after me initially getting this error. I have since deleted some useful pics without any improvement Maybe it is a daily limit or X10 needs to do some house cleaning! ::) ??? Looks like a PM is in order to X10Javlier! ;)
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on January 28, 2007, 06:11:28 PM
Quote from: Musicman50 on January 28, 2007, 02:42:09 PM
Puck, I must agree it should not have much effect on its out put, but indeed it does.

Actually Musicman50 I was confirming why what you did helped.  :D
It was the characteristic of the antenna (omni / directional) that shouldn't have much effect.... that's a good thing.  ;)

Quote
After I am done testing this I will actually solder the longer antenna to the existing antenna.
From what I read hear some say 9.5 inches in length is suitable, while another says the CM15 has about 4 inches folded up in the unit,
so maybe 5.5 added length will work better.

If you're getting good range now (I.E. every RF module in your set up is reaching the CM15A) then adding length probably won't help, but it can make things worse.

Quote
I have also read in another post that simply putting a 9.5 inch 14 gauge wire taped directly to the side of the DS10 will also greatly increase its distance.

This is a passive radiator... very similar to passive reflector you added to your CM15A's antenna.


Tuicemen / Duck69: I too got hit with the same upload problem in December. That's when & why I activated and started using Geocities (thanks for that suggestion TTA).
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: tom j on January 28, 2007, 06:31:10 PM
Quote From Jbacal:
The ideal thing would be to find a supplier that actually carries a telescoping antenna that would be an exact replacement (at the base) for the one in the unit. Well I'm a happy camper, I hope this version can help some of you as well.



Anybody know where you can find an exact replacement ???  That really would be idea, and personally won't mind going into the case seems like a pretty simple mod. Thanks Jbacal you definitely get a brownie point from me!!

Tom j
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on January 28, 2007, 08:37:29 PM
I have seen someone. Glue a new piece of plastic tubing onto the rotating base and unroll the added wire inside the case. To extend it fully.
Got the plastic tubing at a hobby shop. Used for model construction. If you got a telescoping one the wire will have to be soldered to the new ones connection terminal.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: HA Dave on February 24, 2007, 10:41:17 PM
I just completed a (not so pretty) fast cheap mod to the antenna. I am sure I read about someone else doing this 1st. It's not an original idea. But I took pictures and have them on-line in case someone would like to see the mod.

All I did was carefully clip off the the end of the plastic antenna tube. Bared a little of the wire inside the plastic antenna tube, and soldered on a 9 and 1/2 inch wire.

The wire was a piece of CAT5 that I striped the insulation off of. I then taped it to the plastic antenna tube and soldered it to the wire I had bared inside the antenna tube.

I know this isn't the way to do a real antenna modification! But it only took a few minutes, and it works.

I haven't taken the time to test distance or range by device. Before it couldn't transmitt across my office (13'5" at the very longest part). Now it works from upstairs, and at least 30 feet, and has solved many if not all the problems I was having.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on February 25, 2007, 11:06:39 AM
Dave; Thanks for the method you used and the helpful photos.
Was your original  internal antenna wire solid as the photo looks like?
My older one if memory serves me is stranded; inside the plastic tube.
I saw a similar mod in another thread; but in that case they glued a piece of model airplane tubing on the end to make it more rigid.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: HA Dave on February 25, 2007, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: Brian H on February 25, 2007, 11:06:39 AM

Was your original  internal antenna wire solid as the photo looks like?

I saw a similar mod in another thread; but in that case they glued a piece of model airplane tubing on the end to make it more rigid.

The wire inside the plastic antenna tube was a very fine gauge stranded wire with a white insulating cover. To be honest... my GUESS is ....soldering on the extra wire may have been overkill. I think just [exposing some of the bare wire would have likely had the same effect.

I have read of at least one person breaking the plastic tube, and remaining wire hanging out improved performance.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on February 25, 2007, 03:43:45 PM
My old CM15As have the extra wire randomly knotted inside the cases. Later ones have it hot glued to the case in a loop fashion.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Sham on February 26, 2007, 12:30:56 AM
Thanks for the pics and idea dave! (even if it wasn't yours originally!)

That looks a lot easier than opening the unit up and doing a proper modded antenna.  I'll likely try this way first, and if I'm still not happy, then i'll open away!  At least this way will not prevent me from doing it right in the future if need be!   ;D

Sham

Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: poursha on March 03, 2007, 06:24:40 PM
I haven't read this complete thread...  Because I already have the antenna mod...

But, I wanted to chime in and say that I've been using my CM15A with antenna mod for over a year now.  And, I would never even think about using it stock.  The antenna mod makes it "usable" with RF.  Without, it is a joke.

Rob
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: nklght on March 26, 2007, 12:35:37 AM
Why doesn't X-10 update the CM-15 to have a simple screw in antenna, like most wireless routers have.  They could even make money on the deal.  They include the simple rotateable stick antenna with the cm-15 and offer a remote antenna for 30 bucks. 
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Dan Lawrence on March 26, 2007, 05:19:00 PM
That would be a excellent idea, but I suspect X10 isn't interested. I still have my CM11A packed away and it didn't have a antenna.  With all the mods posted here, You'd think somebody at X10 would have picked up on it.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Noam on March 27, 2007, 08:33:13 AM
The CM11A didn't handle RF signals, so there was no need for an antenna. Unlike with the CM15A, you needed a transceiver, like the TM751 or RR501 with the CM11A to be able to use RF devices.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Noam on March 27, 2007, 11:38:25 AM
Duck69 -
Yes, my post was missing a few words. go back and read it now, it (hopefully) makes more sense).
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: jimby on April 22, 2007, 05:55:07 PM
Hi, I had problems with the range of my CM15A especially using the samll RF wall switches. I originally did as the posts say and added a piece of 14 gauge copper wire to the existing antenna and it worked a treat, all my switches now worked flawlessly (not sure I can say the same about the CM15A though).

Anyway I had one of those telescopic antenna from a broken radio controlled toy and notices it was exactly the same length as the modified antenna, so I replace the whole thing with the toy antenna, complete with the right angle joint and it works superbly and looks a lot better than it did with the copper wire attached, which sagged after a time.

You can get these antenna with the angle joints in electronic stores for a couple bucks.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: waterstom on July 08, 2007, 12:42:00 PM
I'm working on modding to increase RF range, as discussed here.  I was pleasantly suprised to find about 3 inches of wire inside my CM15A.  But, it appears that there may be a dollop (fun word!) of hot-glue inside the white plastic 90` piece, as I cannot thread it out the angle piece but rather have to just hang it out the hole.

Any suggestions?

Also, the OTHER WIRE inside is the TX side, right?  Grey wire looped inside case, in molded snaps
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on July 08, 2007, 01:20:45 PM
In mine the extra was hot glued to around case in the newer ones. Older ones just a random ball of wire.
I have seen the antenne tip with the wire glued but not the 90 degree part. Thanks for the heads up on one more thing to check during a mod.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: waterstom on July 08, 2007, 01:29:05 PM
No prob Brian... and for clarification, the 90` part itself is able to come right out of the case.  The hot-glue is INSIDE it, holding the wire in place (how on EARTH/CHINA they got the glue in there, I don't know)

Now the wire is just hanging out the larger hole, and taped to the wall today while I work on my system (aka kill many hours doing nothing) and the angle-piece is just there, in the middle of the wire looking like hell.

My antenna whip tube came out easily btw, I just started twisting it and it came out of the angle.  no glue there.

Tom
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on July 08, 2007, 03:07:01 PM
Thanks for the added data. I found a close extension for the tube or a whole new one in a hobby shop. 1/8" styrene tube was slightly smaller and looked like it would fit; if I pulled the old piece from the 90 degree part.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: richard j on July 16, 2007, 10:11:39 AM
I taped a wire coat hanger to the CM15A antenna and now it works at least up to 40 feet, however outside at 100 feet or so it didn't work and in fact I needed to go back in at around the 40 foot range for it to work again.  However, the controller that I used has been with the same batteries for a couple of years and the 40 foot range is ok for now.

By the way who are these X10 folks anyway and why do they sell such cheap stuff anyway?
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on August 03, 2007, 06:30:32 AM
On a whim. I tied my modified CM15A with external antenna jack; to an amplified RCA TV Antanna; I got at a close out store. I normally used it for an FM Receiver and 310 MHz was not listed as part of its band of reception. It also gave me a very good range. With the antenna on an inside mount in the attic and the power injecto;r RF out adapter in the living room. Where I had the CM15A connected. Since I could only send from the front of the home at any great distance and the antenna was set to receive from that direction. I can not say if it was directional but I believe it may have been.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Drews on August 15, 2007, 05:19:33 PM
I just cut a length of antenna off an old rabbit ear set then popped the plastic plug off the end of the CM15A antenna. The rabbit ear antenna fit right over the white antenna. Then I extended the rabbit ear antenna to 18.5 inches. Works awesome. Much better range.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on August 15, 2007, 06:40:05 PM
Thanks for the tip. One more for the ways to add range. Users now have a varied way to do it.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: jtykal on February 10, 2008, 03:52:23 PM
One more unsolicited plug for the external antenna mod (http://www.accessha.com/howto_fconnector_page1.html).  Like so many others, I was unable to get my security modules (MS10A, DS10A) registered to a stock CM15A from a range of anything more than 10-15 feet. After adding the coax connector as described, I simply plugged in a set of TV rabbit ears, adjusted the length of each "ear" to 9 inches and taped the antenna to the back of my computer hutch with one ear pointed down and one pointed horizontal. Now the CM15A is able to recognize every security module in my 2200sf house.

I've been a longtime "lurker" on the X10 forums, but this is my first post -- mostly because I wanted to say THANK YOU to those of you on the bleeding edge of making X10 products behave the way they should have when you took them out of the box. You've saved me from hours of frustration in the past, and this particular mod was just too helpful to not respond! I hope I'm able to give something back to this community as I learn more about what can be done using AHP with OnAlert and Smart Macros.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: jrlafarge on March 20, 2008, 11:06:14 AM
Hi all,
I am new to the world of X10 but I have been playing with computers and ham radio since the 80s.
I build a quarter wave ground plane antenna for my cm15a and did the external connector mod. I used a 50 ohm bnc connector rather than a 75 ohm f connector. I ran 50 ohm coax from the antenna with pl-259 connectors and used a converter to go from bnc to pl-259.
My thought was to keep the impedance at 50 ohm.(I think I read that is supposed to be 50 ohms, If that is wrong please correct me.)
From my calculations for the length of the antenna radials I came up with 9.06 inches for a 1/4 wave.

The formula for the radial length is the speed of light divided by mhz to get the full wave size. Then divide the full wave size by 1/2, 1/4 or 1/8 for the size of antenna you want to build, but I am lazy and I used The Amateur Quarter Wave Ground Plane Antenna Calculator site. http://www.csgnetwork.com/antennagpcalc.html
I have the antenna hanging in the attic.

I am picking up all of my ds10s inside my house, but I am not seeing any of my eagle eyes or active eyes that are outside of the house. They are at most about 60' from the antenna. I have set house codes to B and allowed for 2 number for each motion sensor. Any ideas of what I have done wrong? ???
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: dave w on March 20, 2008, 12:11:36 PM
Quote from: jrlafarge on March 20, 2008, 11:06:14 AM
I am picking up all of my ds10s inside my house, but I am not seeing any of my eagle eyes or active eyes that are outside of the house. They are at most about 60' from the antenna. I have set house codes to B and allowed for 2 number for each motion sensor. Any ideas of what I have done wrong? ???
jrlafarge
FWIW
I didn't have any BNC's in the junk box so went with cheap "F" connectors. However I don't think the off the shelf receiver X10 is using in the CM15 is that critical of input impedance. My anttenna is a coax going up in the attic with 18" shield stripped back and cut away leaving the 18" center conductor. I went 1/2 wave because I did not have anything in attic that would serve as a ground plane for the 1/4 wave. (I did try a 1/4 wave using the peeled back shield to form a ground plane and did not see any differeince between it and the crude 1/2 wave.  I am getting 60' with that arrangement. What kind of range did you get before you modded the CM15? When does the CM15A pick up the motion detectors (do you have a Palm Pad you can carry around the home to check the outside coverage?) You can also boost the range of the motion detectors by using an 18" passive repeater next to the detector. Search this forum for "passive repeater" .
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: jrlafarge on March 20, 2008, 02:42:08 PM
The range was about 15' or so, now it covers all of the inside of the house with no problem.  My house is a two story at about 2600 sq ft.  I have one sensor in the forier right by the front door that turns on the lights when you walk though there.  That one works.  There is another sensor out side the front door about 6 feet away from that one that I do not see at all.  I will try the passive repeater and see if that works.  I found the post here about it already.
Thanks,
Robby
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: x10challanged on March 21, 2008, 07:10:05 PM
jrlafarge,  I did the coat hanger trick at first and didn't get enough range.  My house is little over 3000 sqft single story so I purchased the SR731 repeater off e-bay.  That gives me enough range to cover my house, garge/gameroom and pool shed and I was able to remove the coat hanger modification from my CM15.   I did extend the USB cable and use an electrical extention cord to mount the CM15 about 6' off the floor behind a door out of sight.  You may or may not get the same results I did, good luck!
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: mrjtwill on March 27, 2008, 05:39:29 PM
 ???
Ok.. I am new to the x-10 and have been initially very disappointed with the RF range. My primary goal was basic security (motion and door sensors) and wizy-wig lighting automation later. I spent 250.00 right off the bat and got all the new software plug-ins (OnAlert..etc..) First issue was using the Security Fobs.. NO RECEPTION FROM 6inches. GERRR. Well I read as much as I could and found some antenna mods. I am a total novice as it comes to soldering and stuff, but I thought what the h3LL I will try it. I bought a radio antenna from radio shack (17.00ish bucks) that allowed for multiple mhz with a BNC. Then got a F to BNC adaptor, F-Connector to attach to CM15A. So Far...... So Far I did get some better reception, BUT!!! my reception for the security fob works only on one side of the townhome (Weird). My office is upstairs East Side, but I get almost no reception on the West Side. Trust me this townhome is small and I can only imagine what people with 2000sqft homes must deal with getting this all to work. The PLC portion seems to be nearly flawless... but that RF is about impossible. Does anyone have a townhome situation? I hear some of you putting antennas in your attic... would that help me if I am in a TownHome? I have to try to boost my RF to ensure reliable security module performance....  I am not a RF or Antenna expert, but does anyone know if it is possible to put an antenna in the basement and one in the attic and connect them both to the same CM15A?

Thanks in advance.. :)
John
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on March 27, 2008, 06:43:12 PM
Quote from: mrjtwill on March 27, 2008, 05:39:29 PM
First issue was using the Security Fobs.. NO RECEPTION FROM 6inches.

Are you aware that security remotes/devices have to be installed in AHP w/OnAlert before their signal will be received by the CM15A?

What are you looking at to verify that it wasn't working?

How many security remotes/devices have you tried? Do you have a regular X10 remote to test?

The reception range of the CM15A (as is) is bad, but 6 inches sounds more like a defective receiver than just the bad antenna issue.

Quote
I am not a RF or Antenna expert, but does anyone know if it is possible to put an antenna in the basement and one in the attic and connect them both to the same CM15A?

Yes it can be done: [User Idea] ULTIMATE DUAL ANTENNA Setup for CM15A (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=12292.msg69057#msg69057)
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: MikeySoft on June 04, 2008, 12:37:48 PM
There are several threads about increasing the range. I'm picking this one for my findings. :)

Background:
Like others, my CM15a has RF range problems. I few years ago I read about adding an external antenna to improve the range. I decided getting an RR501 transceiver was simpler at that time.

I've recently been reading additional threads about passive reflectors and simpler antenna modifications to the CM15a and decided to try some starting with the simplest ones first.

Findings:
1. I taped a 9.5 inch 14 gage wire to the CM15a antenna. It did not help.
2. I added a horizontal passive reflector (about 18 1/2 inch I think) to my motion sensors. I kept the 9.5 wire on the CM15a antenna because I was too lazy to remove it. It helps with one sensor but not with the furthest.
3. I opened the CM15a, unstuck the loop in the antenna wire from the sticky glue, slid the plastic antenna mount out from the CM15a case, and let the full length of the wire and plastic antenna dangle out and down the CM15a's outside. The antenna is now longer and straighter but not perfect straight. I kept the passive reflectors on the motion sensors. This helped but seems intermittent with the furthest motion sensor.
4. I changed the passive reflector on the furthest motion senor from horizontal to vertical. Everything now works great!

Questions for the antenna experts:

1. I'm sure that making the passive reflector vertical helps because my CM15a antenna is mostly vertical, correct?
2. Because of how I have the motion sensor mounted. The vertical passive reflector is now about 1/2 inch or so behind the sensor while my CM15a is in front of it (through exterior and interior walls). Would this be making the sensor antenna more directional toward the front?
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: dave w on June 04, 2008, 05:04:23 PM
Quote from: MikeySoft on June 04, 2008, 12:37:48 PM
Questions for the antenna experts:

1. I'm sure that making the passive reflector vertical helps because my CM15a antenna is mostly vertical, correct?
2. Because of how I have the motion sensor mounted. The vertical passive reflector is now about 1/2 inch or so behind the sensor while my CM15a is in front of it (through exterior and interior walls). Would this be making the sensor antenna more directional toward the front?

#1 Yes. It's called antenna polarization. For best range all antennas should have vertical/horizontal orientation the same.
#2  Not sure from your description but don't think so. If your motion detector is any of the xxxEYE motion detectors, the internal antenna is a small coil loop in the upper left corner of the units PC board. Your (vertical)  radiator should be mounted on the left side of the sensor.

Maybe this old thread will help.
http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10982.0
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: MikeySoft on June 04, 2008, 05:50:21 PM
Thanks Dave, I'll read the link you gave later tonight.

My detector is a xxxEYE, MS14a I think. It is not the active eye but still can be used outdoors.

I read in one of the posts that when a wire is taped to the CM15a plastic covering of the antenna, the antenna is still mostly omni directional because the wire is close to the antenna. My wire is near the center but about 1/2 back so I was thinking (after I did it) it would make it more unidirectional. Anyway it works. :)

I'm also thinking that maybe because the CM15a antenna is now hanging down, it is no longer near the electronics of the CM15a which may help the antenna?
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: dave w on June 05, 2008, 01:13:08 PM
Quote from: MikeySoft on June 04, 2008, 05:50:21 PM

I'm also thinking that maybe because the CM15a antenna is now hanging down, it is no longer near the electronics of the CM15a which may help the antenna?

Possibly, but not sure. I suppose a test would be to try to compare receive range with the CM15A antenna pointing up (putting it next to the internal electronics)  and retest with antenna pointing down which puts it away from the electronics. I really doubt there will be much difference.

Back to the omni directional antenna. Antenna polarization still applies. For a "straight stick" omni directional antenna, the strongest radiation field for transmitter (and best reception for receiver) is perpendicular to the stick. The weakest fields are above and below the stick. However in our 2000 sq ft house, I really don't see much difference between vertical and horizontal mounting of the passive radiators. My CM15 antenna is a coax from the CM15A up through the ceiling  and "tywrapped" at the top of a vertical truss.  18" of the shield stripped away from the end to make a crude 1/2 wave antenna. Works pretty good considering it all came out of the "junk box". Good luck.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: coghlan on August 12, 2008, 11:20:00 PM
The parts are actually called remote control (r/c) antenna tubes and apparently are quite commonly used with R/C race cars.  See http://hobbypeople.net/gallery/868612.asp

Most of them are 13" w/caps - which is too short for this mod - but the link above shows a 36" one.

The stock tube is about 5/16 (3.8mm) O.D. (outside diameter).  Has anyone tried to pull it out of the elbow?  Dunno if if the O.D. of the R/C tube is the same as the stock tube.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on August 13, 2008, 06:51:03 AM
Someone did the mod with some hobby shop RC antenna tubing. Probably at least a year ago; so finding the thread maybe hard to do. I believe they used a small amount of glue on theirs since the tubing was slightly undersized. I got some at a hobby shop and mine was also undersized. Will check the package tonight and see what size I had purchased and its length. If you try and pull the extra antenna wire from inside the case, it may or may not be hot glued to the case. Early one was a loose ball of wire; later glued around the case neatly.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: coghlan on August 13, 2008, 04:13:15 PM
Does the existing (5/16") stock tube pop out of the elbow easily?  I tried tugging on it but it certainly didn't want to come out.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Brian H on August 13, 2008, 04:18:06 PM
No I believe it is glued or sonically welded together.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: BaBaLou. on August 13, 2008, 06:15:06 PM
Hi all, if possible to ask a question in this area. I am attempting a to build a small antenna as listed here http://www.shed.com/tutor/mr26ant.html. I did not do the full mod on the CM15 as of yet but was able ;D to pull the tube out of the elbow on one unit and trimmed the tip of the wire about a half inch. The tube had little if any glue but seemed to have some form of sonic weld done to it, a little twist and make sure to hold the elbow with needle nose.
So as the "Turnstile" antenna shown has a 75 ohm coax connector. Q. If just connecting to the white wire on the CM15, do the connection to the middle of the balun coax end (outer thread is ground?) should I even use it at all ???
Q2 Older threads referred to using 50 ohm connectors and wire over 75 ohm, using this antenna setup, would it make a real difference OR any harm to the CM15?. ???
Q3 if making the Turnstile antenna and used a wire cross to firm it up in its shape, would that interfere in the reception of the antenna? use a wood backing instead ???
I did try using first just a 9.5" and later 18" wire just twisted to the CM15 antenna with some signs of improvement to its function, so its one step at a time for now with one more unit to try another mod on. Have not Cracked open any units as of yet, that's next so to see the glued part of the wire and also do a physical check and compare unit to pics and info on these forums and threads
BaBaLou.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Dan Lawrence on August 14, 2008, 08:58:26 AM
I thought there was a neat CM15A antenna mod using the antenna from a TM751 posted in this thread, but now it seems to have vanished.   Anybody know where it is?  The mod was well done with step-by-step instructions and pictures.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Puck on August 14, 2008, 10:46:25 AM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on August 14, 2008, 08:58:26 AM
I thought there was a neat CM15A antenna mod using the antenna from a TM751 posted in this thread, but now it seems to have vanished. Anybody know where it is? The mod was well done with step-by-step instructions and pictures.

Here is the link so that others can know about it as well when they read this thread:

CM15A mod to increase range using TM571 Antenna - (With Pictures) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=16184.0)

I also moved that thread to reside in the same location as this one.
Title: Re: Project To Increase Range Of CM15A
Post by: Dan Lawrence on August 14, 2008, 03:48:33 PM
Thank you.   >!