X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: DowNet on August 14, 2006, 01:18:37 PM
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Hey all, I'm fairly new to this X10 network but I'm figuring this out more and more. I live in an average size one-bedroom condo (11 stories up). Could I run 2 CM15As? One to be centrally placed and run the macros, timers, etc.? And then the other one hooked to my PC so I can control "PC-only" macros and just have general PC control of my lights if I so desire? Can this be done? Will I have PLC conjestion on my power line with the 2 CM15As? I don't plan on having the PC-CM15A trancieve any commands from any remotes. That will be just there for only PC-run macros and PC-X10 Control. The centrally located CM15A will do all the trancieving from the remotes, etc.
Will this set-up work? I'm open to suggestions.
Regards.
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NO!!! Two CM15A's on the same housecodes will clash with each other. The ONLY way to have two CM15A's is to have each one addressing totally different housecodes and attached to two independent PC's. One could address Housecodes A-H and the other I-P.
I cannot see any reason for 2 CM15A's in any single X10 system. If you ordered two complete Active Home Pro packages, send one back and get your money back. A single CM15A will serve an entire house.
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ok thanks for your reply. at this time, I only have one CM15A. My follow-up question would be how would it clash if I have one CM15A to trancieve (say House Code: D) and the other CM15A set NOT to trancieve and used by the PC ONLY for PC X10 control? Do the CM15As "repeat each other if it senses a command on the powerline? I thought that it only trancieves what is sees over the air (RF wise). So if I set one to transcieve and the other ONLY for PC-powerline control, I should be good, right? Once again thanks for your reply; tell me what you think. Regards.
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Again, you only need one. X10 makes two different transcivers, the TM751 and the RR501. The CM15A is the PC interface and a transciver as well. If you don't currently have two, don't get a second CM15A.
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Dan I don't think you get what I'm saying here (all due respect) :). You can't turn off the RF reciving on the other 2 trancivers that you have mentioned, thus you will get powerline conjestion and problems. I'd go with your suggestion but lights dim to much or brighten to much and sometimes the commands cancel themselves out. I figure if I have 2 CM15As, one set to recieve and trancieve signals to the power line for macros, etc, and the other one for PC control ONLY. If the 2nd CM15A is set up NOT to recieve RF signals (used for pc control only), how would this create conflict on the power line using a remote?
Also pleae note the 2 trancievers that you have mentioned do NOT give you the ablity to "turn-off" their own RF recieving as well as do NOT give the ability to store macros, timers, etc.
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If the second one is set to not tranceive any House Codes it should not transmit any powerline signals even if it did receive them from an RF device like a remote or motion sensor.
Guess there could be a clash if one tranceived the remote signal and it also triggered a macro in the other one and they stepped on each other. In theory they are poilite and should not step on each other but maybe?
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You can only store macros in the CM15A. Transcivers recieve RF signals transmit X10 signals to modules. You cannot use a CM15A as a simple transciever. if you get another one, you will be wasting money. I don't believe X10 sells the CM15A alone, only with the purchase of AHP.
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Dan - just got got off the phone with X10 - what I'm donig can be done. And to correct you, the CM15A CAN be used as a stand-alone transciever. The macros and timers, etc can be downloaded to the unit then placed somewhere else in your home without the need of the computer. You can also select what house codes you want the CM15A to respond to or none at all. So the one that is going to be as an acting tranciever, I'll have all the macros and timers running on it as well as trancieving certain house codes. The other CM15A will be hooked up to my pc for PC-control only - trancieving NO house codes via RF from remotes.
Yes, they only sell the CM15A with the software, but who cares....it's 50 bucks and this will solve my RF issue and still give me control via my PC to my entire home if I want to. CM15A #1 to act as a RF Tranciever to the entire house and to control the house using any remote. CM15A #2 to control the entire house not with RF at all but the PC only. Apparently it can be done with out signal problems.
The exact reason why I need another CM15A opposed to a regualar tranciever is because I need to be able to "turn-off" the trancieving side of things of one of them so they will not conflict when a command is thrown from a RF remote.
In any regard thanks for your posts.
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I have an RR501 in my Living Room which recieves the RF signals from a SS13 "Stick-a-Switch. The CM15A's antenna is so poor that it would not transcieve RF Signals and turn certain lights on.
There are threads here and on the old Forums about extending the CM15's antenna to better receive RF signals, BUT doing so voids the warrenty, so you do it at your own risk. The RR501 sits 8 feet from the CM15A and there's ZERO clashing. That's how bad the antenna is.
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That's amazing and I agree it's bad. i'm in an ave condo and my bedroom wall plates will not react with the CM15A in my computer area (about 20 feet away). I thought about doing the mod but figured it'd be a better idea to move the CM15A closer and more central in my condo. After trying this out...I fixed my RF problem. But now I want to use my pc for simple controls as well but NOT trancieve codes so I'd figure I'll get another CM15A and turn off the tranciever on it. It will still send power line codes when the tranciever is off by the way. This seems to be the best route for me. I think X10 should come out with a better or different version of the CM15A to give one the ability to plug in their own antenna.
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You can't turn the CM15A's transiciever off. That's why a lot of us X10/Active Home Pro users have the plug-in transcievers. Trying to modify a CM15A to not trancieve VOIDS THE WARRENTY!!!
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You turn OFF all tranceived house codes and it Will NOT send any X10 signals on the Power Line from a remote. We have to help folks all the time with "no remotes working" for that exact reason. All house codes are OFF!
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You are correct, but DowNet appears to be headstrong. I have two trancieved housecodes, A & F. All other housecodes have it turned off. The two housecodes that are trancieved have RR501's to recieve the RF signals. The CM15A never would revieve the RF signals from my "Stick-a-Switch", which is 10 FEET from the CM15A - that's how bad an unmodifed 15's antenna is.
Plus, paying $23.49 for a RR501 beats $49.99 for another copy of AHP and a CM15A.
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You turn OFF all tranceived house codes and it Will NOT send any X10 signals on the Power Line from a remote. We have to help folks all the time with "no remotes working" for that exact reason. All house codes are OFF!
Brian - please read above on what I wish to do. The CM15A that is going to have its tranciever turned off is NOT going to be used for X10 RF remotes. Only for PC control. I've already tested it. If you turn CM15A tranciever off, you can still use the unit to send powerline code to modules via the PC. I'll have another CM15A running (more centrally located) with the tranciever turned ON. This unit will be for the RF remotes.
I don't think it's that hard to understand.....I'm not trying to be "head-strong"....just trying to get a point across....that I know now, will work.
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If the second one is set to not tranceive any House Codes it should not transmit any powerline signals even if it did receive them from an RF device like a remote or motion sensor.
Guess there could be a clash if one tranceived the remote signal and it also triggered a macro in the other one and they stepped on each other. In theory they are poilite and should not step on each other but maybe?
Good point Brian, however please keep in mind that the macros and timers, etc will be "pre-loaded" to the tranciever that will be turned on and running centrally. The CM15A that is hooked up to the PC will not have any times or macros on it at all. So all the timers and macros will be coming from the one that has the tranciever turned on.
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You can't turn the CM15A's transiciever off. That's why a lot of us X10/Active Home Pro users have the plug-in transcievers. Trying to modify a CM15A to not trancieve VOIDS THE WARRENTY!!!
Okay...maybe I'm misstating. What I mean by "turningn the tranciever off" is making it so it does NOT respond to RF commands. I have tested this and it can be done (you do it in the configuration screen of the unit by selecting "none" for what codes you want trancieved - beit by the RF remotes). At the same time that same module can send powerline codes out to the modules via the PC. this does work.
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Dan Lawrence and DowNet:
To improve the RF signal sent from your Stick-a-Switch, cut a length of straight wire about 18 inches long and tape it to the wall horizontally and just above the switch. (If this sounds crazy, consider how a YAGI antenna works.)
One way to somewhat improve the RF reception range of a CM15A without voiding the warranty is to tape a length of wire to the existing antenna tube with scotch tape. Aluminum wire is lightweight and won't put undue stress on the flimsy antenna when it's swung out perpendicular to the wall. Somewhat better coupling between the (bare) wire and the antenna wire inside the tube would be achieved by wrapping them together with a srip of aluminum foil before taping.
One place I've never been able to make a wireless wall switch work is on a wall which is plaster over metal lath. I couldn't transceive the signal with a TM751 plugged in 3 feet away.
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Dan Lawrence and DowNet:
To improve the RF signal sent from your Stick-a-Switch, cut a length of straight wire about 18 inches long and tape it to the wall horizontally and just above the switch. (If this sounds crazy, consider how a YAGI antenna works.)
One way to somewhat improve the RF reception range of a CM15A without voiding the warranty is to tape a length of wire to the existing antenna tube with scotch tape. Aluminum wire is lightweight and won't put undue stress on the flimsy antenna when it's swung out perpendicular to the wall. Somewhat better coupling between the (bare) wire and the antenna wire inside the tube would be achieved by wrapping them together with a srip of aluminum foil before taping.
One place I've never been able to make a wireless wall switch work is on a wall which is plaster over metal lath. I couldn't transceive the signal with a TM751 plugged in 3 feet away.
Does it matter if my CM15A is plugged in vertically or horizontally itself?
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Dan Lawrence and DowNet:
To improve the RF signal sent from your Stick-a-Switch, cut a length of straight wire about 18 inches long and tape it to the wall horizontally and just above the switch. (If this sounds crazy, consider how a YAGI antenna works.)
One way to somewhat improve the RF reception range of a CM15A without voiding the warranty is to tape a length of wire to the existing antenna tube with scotch tape. Aluminum wire is lightweight and won't put undue stress on the flimsy antenna when it's swung out perpendicular to the wall. Somewhat better coupling between the (bare) wire and the antenna wire inside the tube would be achieved by wrapping them together with a srip of aluminum foil before taping.
One place I've never been able to make a wireless wall switch work is on a wall which is plaster over metal lath. I couldn't transceive the signal with a TM751 plugged in 3 feet away.
No thanks, it works fine with the RR501. The TM751 isn't as good as the RR501. I still have a 751 in my "X10 box", along with my CM11A from AH days.
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Dan wrote:
"No thanks, it works fine with the RR501. The TM751 isn't as good as the RR501. I still have a 751 in my "X10 box", along with my CM11A from AH days."
I hear that a lot about the RR501 versus the TM751, but the first transceiver I owned was a TM751 and it had a better RF receiving range than any of the three highly-touted RR501 units which had been offered to replace it. Reception from one wireless wall switch location in the house was "iffy" with the TM751 but practically zilch with the RR501s.
In an attempt to quantify the difference I had observed in the house (namely that the RR501s weren't up to the job), I ran a 50 ft extension cord from the house to one end of my long driveway. I plugged in either the TM751 or the RR501 with a lamp attached and with the transceiver setting on a box about 2 feet high. Then while alternately clicking the On and Off buttons on a PalmPad I moved further and further away until I could see that the lamp was no longer responding. This was about 8 or 9 years ago and I don't remember all the details, but the RR501 worked out to about 90-100 feet while the TM751 exceeded that by about 20-30 feet. (I swapped the two transceiver units twice to make sure a running-down battery in the PalmPad wasn't an influence, and I held the PalmPalm in the same orientation all the time.)
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I had a TM751 in the Living Room (with the Stick-a-Switch) and recption was hit or miss. Replaced it with a RR501 and have fine recption. A second RR501 went in the kitchen.
I would not use a TM751 again.
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I had a TM751 in the Living Room (with the Stick-a-Switch) and reception was hit or miss. Replaced it with a RR501 and have fine rreception A second RR501 went in the kitchen.
I would not use a TM751 again.
The problem with using the TM751 and RR501/PAT01 is that you lose the functionality of the CM15A for macros, timers, etc. You are limited by just on/off - dimming etc. This is from my experience. And depending on the amount you put in a room, it can make or break your system. That's why in my case I wanted to preserve the functionality of the CM15A.
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Dan Lawrence and DowNet:
To improve the RF signal sent from your Stick-a-Switch, cut a length of straight wire about 18 inches long and tape it to the wall horizontally and just above the switch. (If this sounds crazy, consider how a YAGI antenna works.)
One way to somewhat improve the RF reception range of a CM15A without voiding the warranty is to tape a length of wire to the existing antenna tube with scotch tape. Aluminum wire is lightweight and won't put undue stress on the flimsy antenna when it's swung out perpendicular to the wall. Somewhat better coupling between the (bare) wire and the antenna wire inside the tube would be achieved by wrapping them together with a srip of aluminum foil before taping.
One place I've never been able to make a wireless wall switch work is on a wall which is plaster over metal lath. I couldn't transceive the signal with a TM751 plugged in 3 feet away.
Does it matter if my CM15A is plugged in vertically or horizontally itself?
It's hard to say, there being so many variables. But I think the orientation of the antenna is probably the most important consideration.
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I had a TM751 in the Living Room (with the Stick-a-Switch) and reception was hit or miss. Replaced it with a RR501 and have fine rreception A second RR501 went in the kitchen.
I would not use a TM751 again.
The problem with using the TM751 and RR501/PAT01 is that you lose the functionality of the CM15A for macros, timers, etc. You are limited by just on/off - dimming etc. This is from my experience. And depending on the amount you put in a room, it can make or break your system. That's why in my case I wanted to preserve the functionality of the CM15A.
How so? CM15A macros can be triggered by a powerline command sent by a RR501/TM751 as easily as an RF command, the main difference being the additional delay for the powerline signal from the RR501/TM751 to reach the CM15A.
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The problem with using the TM751 and RR501/PAT01 is that you lose the functionality of the CM15A for macros, timers, etc. You are limited by just on/off - dimming etc. This is from my experience. And depending on the amount you put in a room, it can make or break your system. That's why in my case I wanted to preserve the functionality of the CM15A.
Wrong Again. My single macro resides in the CM15A. The only function the two RR501's do is recieve the RF signals from their RF controllers (Stick-a-Swich units). They do not house or transmit macros.
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The problem with using the TM751 and RR501/PAT01 is that you lose the functionality of the CM15A for macros, timers, etc. You are limited by just on/off - dimming etc. This is from my experience. And depending on the amount you put in a room, it can make or break your system. That's why in my case I wanted to preserve the functionality of the CM15A.
Wrong Again. My single macro resides in the CM15A. The only function the two RR501's do is recieve the RF signals from their RF controllers (Stick-a-Swich units). They do not house or transmit macros.
My bad...I misstated. What I meant was, by using the RR501/PAT01 is that you lose macro functionality being that those units do not support macro (at least that I know of). So it's ideal to have your "switch" some how been seen by your CM15A so you can use its other benefits (macros) from the "stick switch." This is what I desire.
Seems that you are getting a bit tempermental with me, Dan, not sure why. All due respect, I have not been wrong yet (minus my mis-statement). What I want to do regarding the 2 CM15As can be done according to an X10 tech rep and a Smarthome Tech rep. I spoke with them both today. They just told me, as long as I don't activate the RF-receiving transceiver PC - CM15A, I should be good to go. <----by this I mean, going into the CM15A configuration menu and select "none" for trancieving codes. This will disable the RF recieving side of the tranciever but the unit will STILL BE ABLE to send out PLC commands via the PC-control (ActiveHome Pro).
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I had a TM751 in the Living Room (with the Stick-a-Switch) and reception was hit or miss. Replaced it with a RR501 and have fine rreception A second RR501 went in the kitchen.
I would not use a TM751 again.
The problem with using the TM751 and RR501/PAT01 is that you lose the functionality of the CM15A for macros, timers, etc. You are limited by just on/off - dimming etc. This is from my experience. And depending on the amount you put in a room, it can make or break your system. That's why in my case I wanted to preserve the functionality of the CM15A.
How so? CM15A macros can be triggered by a powerline command sent by a RR501/TM751 as easily as an RF command, the main difference being the additional delay for the powerline signal from the RR501/TM751 to reach the CM15A.
Charles, please fill me in on how this can be done. All the macro functions I see so far have to do with RF-type commands only. I do not see where it can be done via PLC. I'm all ears (or eyes) :)
Update: nevermind I found it....looks like I have to study how the powerline codes are sent...cause it looks like you have to know the right command bytes plug in.
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How so? CM15A macros can be triggered by a powerline command sent by a RR501/TM751 as easily as an RF command, the main difference being the additional delay for the powerline signal from the RR501/TM751 to reach the CM15A.
Charles, please fill me in on how this can be done. All the macro functions I see so far have to do with RF-type commands only. I do not see where it can be done via PLC. I'm all ears (or eyes) :)
Update: nevermind I found it....looks like I have to study how the powerline codes are sent...cause it looks like you have to know the right command bytes plug in.
Poweline X10 codes are usually sent manually with a plug-in controller like X-10's Mini- or Maxi-Controller, but they can also be sent by another interface like the CM15A or CM11A, or in response to an RF signal by a transceiver like the RR501 or TM751.
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Thanks to all for all the help. I did not know that the CM15A can RECEIVE PLC codes to run macros etc. I thought it can only transmit them. Being so, I decided to go with the 1135K X10 TW523 & ALL HOUSECODE RF TRANSCEIVER which in-turn will pretty much extend my CM15A's, if you will, range via PLC. All regular commands will be controlled via the TW523 and any macros will be sent (PLC) to the CM15A hooked up to the PC for execution. The CM15A's RF receive link will be turned off or set to "none" in the AHP's configuration window so I won't get conjestion on the powerlines.
Thanks again! :) Regards.
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After wading through all this, I still wonder why two CM15As can not be used with each other? They are polite so should not trample each other...
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I guess that the topic never came up before. Using two CM15A's (or CM11A's) has not been a question either here the old forums.
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After wading through all this, I still wonder why two CM15As can not be used with each other? They are polite so should not trample each other...
Dave, I still do belive they can be done, but the only thing that you might have a problem with is when you want to dim or brighten a light. Instead of the light being dimmed 1 level, it might go up 2 levels (from one brighten button push) because both trancievers are sending the same code. It'd be best to turn on of the unit's trancievers off; then you should not have a problem at all. This what I was going to do but found a better way with better RF reception per my post above.