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[BobInIndy]

Concerns about X10…

I am new to X10 and have some concerns…I need to make a decision whether to press forward or return everything within X10s 30 day return window, so some quick advise would be appreciated.  All electrical wiring in the house in brand new.  I got the AHP macros running with 3 lights in the same room, so I could see what was going one.  As I moved the lights to their final locations, the problems began.

Question 1 – X10 indicates their lamp modules will not work with CFL lights.  X10’s appliance modules  are way to loud when they turn on and off to be used for lighting in my case.  So… 

Smart Home sells appliance modules (www.smarthome.com/2456s3.html ) that will work with any non-dimmable CFL lights and these modules are suppose to be quiet when switched and they sell
CFL Lights (http://www.smarthome.com/903233.html) that will work with any modules (including X10s).

Does any body have actual experience in using these Smart Homes items being controlled by X10’s AHP CM15A running macros?

Question 2 – I use CFL in my entire house.  Even if I didn’t use CFL with an X10 module, does using CFL everywhere else cause interference in the signal getting to where it needs to go via the wiring?

The reason for asking is I am getting unpredictable results, lights turning on/off when they shouldn’t be, the AHP device not turning on lights when you click the on button (this is not a range issue, I am right next to the AHP with the remove), etc.

If CFL’s everywhere in the house are a problem, is there a solution either using X10 or some other mfg. modules?

Question 3 – For lighting applications, what is the advantage to 2 way communication X10 modules vs the one way type? 

Thanks!

Bob

[JeffVolp]

The X10 communication protocol was developed decades ago, before there were such things as compact fluorescent lights (CFLs).  These units virtually all incorporate a high-frequency converter.  Some of those converters operate near or even sweep through the X10 frequency band, causing problems for X10 communication.  Obviously, manufacturers of CFLs have to manufacture them as cheaply as possible in this competitive world.  So, most don't incorporate the circuitry necessary to prevent them from radiating powerline noise.  Those problems can usually be solved with external filters that prevent the high-frequency signal from reaching the powerline.  I wrote a tutorial on CFLs that may help:

http://jvde.us/x10/x10_cfls.htm

Now, with your questions.

1)  We use the relay wall switches and a Leviton 6287 in-line filter for ceiling cans that contain CFLs.  We use ordinary lamp modules for table lamps with CFLs, but they are just used in an ON/OFF mode.  Actually we do have some old Philips Earthlights that will dim just fine.  We have not used the bulbs you referenced.

2)  We have a significant number of CFLs, and use the appropriate filters.

3)  Certain 2-way modules can inform the controller whether the light is ON or OFF.  There may be advantages to that in some locations, but I just issue OFF commands at the end of the evening, regardless of the lamp status.

Jeff

[hmseiden]

Thanks for the information. I have an installation of several CFL's in high hats using AHP dimmer modules. I have other fixtures that are not under control of X10 / AHP switches that when on may cause problems on certain channels. You mention a filter module that can be installed for those. What is it, where can I find them and how difficult are they to install? And will the filter in line to the load side still allow control by X10 at the power input side? Would assume so, but just checking.

I also added an ultrasonic air cleaner when we replaced our AC system recently. While it works great I am thinking that this unit is also inducing interference. How can the interference be tested? Can I scope this either with a spectrum analyzer or oscilloscope? What frequency is the AHP/x10 stuff running at? Will an in line filter like the Leviton work well in that application? The cleaner operates from low voltage so there's a transformer there somewhere that I could wire an in line filter to.

It may be that this is causing more of an issue to X10 control than the CFLs as it's on all the time.  For that (if it's the cause) I would need some kind of in line filter at the junction box. Again, what, where to find?

Thanks for your help!

Henry

[JeffVolp]

All ceiling fixtures that contain CFLs can be filtered with the small Leviton 6287 in-line noise block wired between the switch and the load.  That unit is small enough to fit behind a switch in a deep electrical box.  Or, it can be installed in the connection box at the first fixture in the string.  I bought ours from Worthington, but other distributors sell it too.  Since it may be the only UL approved filter appropriate for this problem, it is often out of stock.  (I wonder if I can get cut of Leviton's sales...)

The Elk ESM1 measures both line noise and X10 signal strength.  It is a handy tool for anyone with more than a few X10 modules.  You can certainly check the line with a scope or spectrum analyzer.  Use a high-voltage high-pass filter to get rid of most of the 60Hz so you can look at the low level signals.  The photographs in the CFL tutorial were taken after the XTB-II coupling network, so virtually all the 60Hz was eliminated.

Regarding your air cleaner, you just want to prevent noise from getting onto the AC powerline.  So if the air cleaner does produce noise, the appropriate place for a filter (either the plug-in XPPF or wire in Leviton 6287) would be where it couples into the powerline.  Remember, those filters are only rated for 5A.  Be sure not to overload them.

A single filter at the junction box is not the answer for your own CFLs unless it would be used to isolate a single non-X10 circuit.  However, the large whole-house blocking coupler IS a good idea to prevent noise from coming in from outside the house.

You might check my other tutorial on filters for more information:

http://jvde.us/x10/x10_filters.htm

Jeff