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[PatrickF]

I have a WS467 wall switch connected to a pair of porch lights.  It was working perfectly for about 6 months with AH Pro.  Al of a sudden it stops working.  I do some troubleshooting and figure it's the switch, so I order a new one.  Same results.

Here's what's driving me crazy:

I can turn the switch off and on by clicking on the switch icon in AH Pro.  Works perfectly.

However, no matter what timer I set (Dusk to Dawn, Specific Times, etc.) - the lights will go off in the morning, but do not go on (even with the Repeat box checked).

I have a set of garage lights for which I set the same exact timer, and they continue to work flawlessly.

Why in the world will the timer only turn my porch lights OFF and not ON, if I can easily control them manually through the AH Software by clicking on the switch icon   Doesn't the timer simply send the same command that gets sent when I click on the switch icon in AH Pro?

NEED HELP PLEASE !!!

[kpautohome]

Exactly the same problem I'm having. I can get them to turn on by remote though ever time but from the timer I don't think an ON signal is actually getting sent. Using the dusk to dawn the lights would not turn on at dusk, but would always turn off a dawn. In the log I never see an ON signal getting sent to A1 my case.


When did you puchase the WS467 modules that are having an issue?  Try switching out one of the wall switches that is working with on that is not and retest. I have reason to believe X10 latest batch of WS467 modules are bad or buggy. On another thread one guy just bought 5 of them and all were found to be bad. He replaced them and now they all work.

[gil shultz]

The problem you mention is a common and a very complex one.  I am 99.99% sure something changed on your network even moving the AH pro counts as a change.

Pick a quiet day and determine which breakers/fuses the AH pro and the lights are on, turn off all the rest of them.  Then try the system, it probably will work.  Then turn on each breaker one at a time and test the system.  When it fails you have at least one of the offending circuits.  First disconnect all electronic devices on this circuit and see if your system is operational, if so then plug the electronic devices two by two (faster this way) and test it, if it stops unplug the last one you purchased and see if it works (probably will).  If not swap and test again.  It should work, if not leave them unplugged and go through the rest of the circuit.  Repeat for each circuit leaving the passed ones on. You will have about an 85% chance of finding your problem. If not get a signal meter and do it again.  Also I recommend you keep notes of what is OK, saves time the next time something goes wacky.

Explanation:

Assuming all the equipment is operating properly we know by definition that the signal is modulated on the power line at 120 KHz at the zero crossing point.  This allows a usable signal of a few volts to be impressed on a line that has over 150V peak voltage.  These signals are filtered with tuned circuits hence there is the possibility of alignment problems but they get a much stronger signal in the pass band.  Good filters etc will give good results; poor filters will give marginal results.  Remember that these units are low priced and at best have marginal filtering abilities.

The unit putting the voltage on the power line (transmitter) can only put out a few volts.  The receiving unit (module) has a minimum sensitivity level for a valid signal.  If the signal level is below the minimum erratic or no function occurs.  Conversely if the signal is above the minimum the unit should operate properly.

Noise will swamp the front end of the receiving unit decreasing or eliminating its ability to receive and disseminate a valid signal. Noise is typically generated by an outside source.

The carrying media (power wiring) was never intended to handle low frequency RF (Radio Frequency) signals not was it designed to block them. The solution is to get enough good signal to the module so it can perform properly.  Solving this gets complicated.

Attenuation of the signal is the proper way of saying the signal level is reduced.  There will always be some attenuation of the signal in any normal system.  The trick is to minimize the attenuation or at least keep it low enough so a good signal can get through. 

There are three primary things capacitance, inductance and resistance that will attenuate the signal to a non usable level.  Expect a combination of two or three of these working in conjunction to be causing the problem.

House wiring is a source of capacitance; the effect is definitely there at 120 KHz hence line length will have an effect.  The resistance in typical power wiring will have no effect.  The inductance can depend how the wire is routed and against what. 

Power transformers are designed to operate at 50 or 60 Hz; consequently they have a high inductance which will stop the 120 KHz signal.  You see this in a typical home and add a bridge between the phases to cause the 120 KHz to go around the transformer. The advantage of this is that your signals do not pass through to other systems.

AC (Alternating Current) loads such as heaters, lights etc consume AC and do not normally interfere with 120 KHz signals.  Motors may or may not depending on there design.   On the other hand electronic equipment most by design attenuates the 120 KHz signals.  This is because the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) has placed restrictions on both conducted and radiated emissions allowed on commercial and residential equipment.  Radiated emissions go through the air while conducted emissions go through the wiring.  We are concerned with conducted emissions when working with X10.

Look at the cord that connects the video from your monitor to your computer.  There is a swelling of some type near one or both of the plugs.  This normally contains ferrite which attenuates high frequency signals.

Electronics needs DC (Direct Current) to operate internally.  This comes from a power supply of some type.  In bygone years most power supplies were built with a 60 HZ input transformer which isolated the unit from the power line (120 KHz as well). Depending on the transformer design many of these were not a problem.

Then came transformer less electronics such as TVs, these use higher frequencies which have to be isolated from the power line.  The easiest way was to attenuate them.  The attenuators were cheep but efficient and would kill a broad range of frequencies including 120 KHz signals.  These do not pay any attention to the source of the signal they just attenuated them; this is consistent across just about all power supplies.

The cost of energy has kept increasing to the point energy conservation is important.  The best way to save energy is to use less.  The original power supplies at best could get an efficiency of 50%.  The transformer less designs was approaching the 70% efficiency range. This is not good enough today so the switch mode power supplies have become popular.  These are typically better then 95% efficient.  These use high frequency designs and power MOSFETs (Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effects Transistor).  The MOSFETs can switch in the Megahertz range, and generate lots of high frequency noise.  Consequently the line attenuators are much better and also attenuate the 120 KHz even more.
 
This is a short and simple explanation of what may be causing the problem; it is not an explanation of how to solve it, that is your job. The problems can and sometimes do get much more complicated then what I have covered her.

[Charles Sullivan]

Exactly the same problem I'm having. I can get them to turn on by remote though ever time but from the timer I don't think an ON signal is actually getting sent. Using the dusk to dawn the lights would not turn on at dusk, but would always turn off a dawn. In the log I never see an ON signal getting sent to A1 my case.

When did you puchase the WS467 modules that are having an issue?  Try switching out one of the wall switches that is working with on that is not and retest. I have reason to believe X10 latest batch of WS467 modules are bad or buggy. On another thread one guy just bought 5 of them and all were found to be bad. He replaced them and now they all work.

X-10 shot themselves in the foot with the WS467 redesign.

An AHP downloaded timer turns on a WS467 by issuing a "brighten 100%" signal, but the redesigned WS467 does not respond to a "brighten 100%" when in the Off state.  Drag in the icon for the LM14A (which uses extended code preset commands) instead of the WS467 and your timer will work.  (This won't work with original design WS467 modules.)

[kpautohome]

Thanks Charles, I'll definintely try that.

[spaghettifiend]

Okay, maybe this is a related problem, but I don't THINK so...

I just installed a couple of 3-way switches (just bought both, but separately).  One of them runs three ceiling lights, 2 of which are flourescent bulbs.  To my surprise, it seems to work flawlessly...thought I'd have to replace or install filters for the floursescents, but whatever.  Anyway, on another circuit I installed the other one, and it ran a single flourescent.  The first time I turned it on using the master switch, the bulb went bat**** flickering like mad.  I switched in an incandescent and it seemed fine.  I haven't tried it on a timer, but I was able to turn it off and on normally using the switch in the AH interface.  I thought it was okay because I had switched the thing off when I left using the slave switch.  All seemed good.

It was only later that I realized that the slave switch could turn the thing off, but NOT on again.  The master switch and the AH interface turn it on fine.  This ring any bells with anybody?  My initial searches turned up this thread as the closest thing to what I'm seeing...

[Brian H]

The WS467 should not be used on a Fluorescent type light.
If I read your post correctly. One is controlling one incandescent bulb along with two fluorescent ones. That one may at least work as the incandescent lets the switch steal its needed power through it. Still it is not a good idea to have a fluorescent on a dimmer even if a standard bulb is buffering the effects.

[TakeTheActive]

...An AHP downloaded timer turns on a WS467 by issuing a "brighten 100%" signal...

As far as I know, this DEPENDS solely on how you set the " semi-hidden / totally-unstable " option of: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%', which is located at: Tools -> Peferences -> Macro Options and, in my experience, REFUSES to remain CHECKED.

• Re: [TTA BUG] Why Doesn't the "Display Time in 24 Hour Format" Checkbox STAY CHECKED - Posted on: « 2006-09-18, 17:02:41 »
  
  
• Leviton Switches
  

[Charles Sullivan]

...An AHP downloaded timer turns on a WS467 by issuing a "brighten 100%" signal...

As far as I know, this DEPENDS solely on how you set the " semi-hidden / totally-unstable " option of: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%', which is located at: Tools -> Peferences -> Macro Options and, in my experience, REFUSES to remain CHECKED.

• Re: [TTA BUG] Why Doesn't the "Display Time in 24 Hour Format" Checkbox STAY CHECKED - Posted on: « 2006-09-18, 17:02:41 »
  
  
• Leviton Switches
  

That check box applies only to macros, not to simple timers.

I just tried it again to verify that the box remained checked both before and after the timer was downloaded.  It was, and a CM11A on a second PC reported receiving the "bright 100%" rather than "On" when the timer executed.  (And the lamp connected to the redesigned WS467 remained Off.)

I have the AHP version which was updated to 3.206 when OnAlert was installed.  It's possible this differs from the 3.204 version without OnAlert.

[osunick]

You are a HUGE lifesaver.  X-10 really needs a new name for the WS467, and tell the activehome folks to update their software as I am sure this is resulting in a lot of returned WS467's.

-n.

X-10 shot themselves in the foot with the WS467 redesign.

An AHP downloaded timer turns on a WS467 by issuing a "brighten 100%" signal, but the redesigned WS467 does not respond to a "brighten 100%" when in the Off state.  Drag in the icon for the LM14A (which uses extended code preset commands) instead of the WS467 and your timer will work.  (This won't work with original design WS467 modules.)