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[chadmw7]

Tonight I installed an XPS3 switch in our church auditorium which is also a gym.  The power is 3 phase in a Y configuration.  The lights that the switch control are just 2 fluorescents and are 120V.  The panel that the lights come from is 208Y/120Y.  That panel connects to a transformer and then to the main panel which is 480Y/277Y. 

I'm controlling it(or attempting to) with a PHC01 mini controller.  It works like a champ on an outlet coming from the same panel as the lights but the place where we need the control is in our sound booth which comes from another 208Y/120Y panel which is fed by that same 480Y/277Y panel.  It does work intermittently from that location but it's very sporadic.  It sometimes works when turning the lights on.  It never works when turning them off.  That doesn't make sense to me because, if I understand correctly, off is just another signal just like on so why does one work but not the other?

When it didn't work right away, we installed a XPCR coupler/repeater in the panel where the lights were located.  Didn't change a thing.  The repeater did not blink in recognition of a signal when the control was on the other panel.  When on a plug from the same panel, it blinks.  I thought that was odd because it does turn on the light every now and then from the other panel. 

We then installed a 2nd XPCR coupler/repeater in the other panel.  No change.  The repeater in the 2nd panel blinks but the one in the 1st panel still doesn't.  The lights work exactly the same with the 2nd repeater installed. 

I'm new to the X10 thing so I'm sure I'm probably missing something.  Is there anything else I can try?

[Brian H]

The missed off can be from the fluorescent lights making noise and you signal being marginal. When off the signal is strong enough for the switch to go on; but the noise from the lights mask the weak off signal.
3 Phase is a different animal and the repeaters you tried are for split phase so the signals are not at the proper time for the switches to respond.
ACT makes a 3 phase repeater that may help you Model CR134. I have one in a split phase as it can be set to split or 3 phase 208 Y.

http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
Is Jeff Volp's great tutorial on how X10 signals work and maybe a help for you.

[JeffVolp]

The power is 3 phase in a Y configuration.  The lights that the switch control are just 2 fluorescents and are 120V.  The panel that the lights come from is 208Y/120Y.  That panel connects to a transformer and then to the main panel which is 480Y/277Y.

One thing that may be a factor is the transformer.  The 120KHz X10 signals will likely be blocked by a big 60Hz transformer.  If both of the sub-panels are driven off independent transformers, then it will be very difficult to get the signal to the second panel.  However, if both subpanels are driven off the same transformer, then a 3-phase coupler/repeater installed at the signal source panel should do the job.

As Brian said, some fluorescent lights can be a problem.  The newer high efficiency lights have electronic ballasts that can radiate electrical noise onto the powerline.  The only real solution is to install Leviton 6287 in-line filters between the switch and the fluorescent lights.  That will block the fluorescent light noise from reaching the main power distribution.

BTW, a 3-phase version of the XTB-IIR is almost ready for distribution.

Jeff

[chadmw7]

The missed off can be from the fluorescent lights making noise and you signal being marginal. When off the signal is strong enough for the switch to go on; but the noise from the lights mask the weak off signal.
3 Phase is a different animal and the repeaters you tried are for split phase so the signals are not at the proper time for the switches to respond.
ACT makes a 3 phase repeater that may help you Model CR134. I have one in a split phase as it can be set to split or 3 phase 208 Y.

http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
Is Jeff Volp's great tutorial on how X10 signals work and maybe a help for you.

I don't understand.  These repeaters have wiring instructions for split phase and 3 phase also.  On the box, it says "System Coupler/Repeater for 120/208V three phase systems, and 120/240V split phase systems"

[chadmw7]

The power is 3 phase in a Y configuration.  The lights that the switch control are just 2 fluorescents and are 120V.  The panel that the lights come from is 208Y/120Y.  That panel connects to a transformer and then to the main panel which is 480Y/277Y.

One thing that may be a factor is the transformer.  The 120KHz X10 signals will likely be blocked by a big 60Hz transformer.  If both of the sub-panels are driven off independent transformers, then it will be very difficult to get the signal to the second panel.  However, if both subpanels are driven off the same transformer, then a 3-phase coupler/repeater installed at the signal source panel should do the job.

As Brian said, some fluorescent lights can be a problem.  The newer high efficiency lights have electronic ballasts that can radiate electrical noise onto the powerline.  The only real solution is to install Leviton 6287 in-line filters between the switch and the fluorescent lights.  That will block the fluorescent light noise from reaching the main power distribution.

BTW, a 3-phase version of the XTB-IIR is almost ready for distribution.

Jeff

That makes sense.  Would these filters work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/X10-PRO-3-Wire-In-Line-Noise-Filter-XPF_W0QQitemZ110239515265QQihZ001QQcategoryZ40976QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Should I install these on every breaker that has fluorescent lights?

Could I install it between the main panel and the X10 switch only if I suspect there being multiple sources of noise?

Also, does piggy-backing multiple repeaters have any effect or are there some repeaters that are much more powerful than others?


Any other types of lights or whatever that are notorious for causing a lot of line noise?

[Brian H]

Since the filter removes signals in the X10 120 KHz range. One in-between the X10 switch and the panel will stop it from seeing any signals.
After the switch and between the light and switch would remove noise from the load; or inside the fixture.
Other noise sources can be things like computers; TVs; even new cell phone chargers with switching power supplies can be noise generators.
I had to add a filter to my APC BX1000 UPS. Not because it made noise but it has a built-in filter that absorbed X10 signals as it considered 120 KHz as a noise.

[chadmw7]

Since the filter removes signals in the X10 120 KHz range. One in-between the X10 switch and the panel will stop it from seeing any signals.
After the switch and between the light and switch would remove noise from the load; or inside the fixture.
Other noise sources can be things like computers; TVs; even new cell phone chargers with switching power supplies can be noise generators.
I had to add a filter to my APC BX1000 UPS. Not because it made noise but it has a built-in filter that absorbed X10 signals as it considered 120 KHz as a noise.

Ok.  I see.  So if the filter also blocks the X10 signal, there's no way to really filter the switch from receiving any noise from every direction.  I would just have to identify the problem causers and put a fliter between each of them and the panel.  Is that right?

[JeffVolp]

Ok. I see. So if the filter also blocks the X10 signal, there's no way to really filter the switch from receiving any noise from every direction. I would just have to identify the problem causers and put a filter between each of them and the panel. Is that right?

The Leviton 6287 filter is much smaller, and is designed for 5A loads.  It wires in-line between the X10 switch and the "problem" load.  Unless you have a lot of fluorescent lights controlled by the same switch, a single filter may be adequate for each set of lights.  It often can fit inside the box behind the X10 switch, or it can be wired into the junction box for the first fluorescent light in the string.  The important thing is that it should go between the X10 switch and the first load.  If your load is over 5A, then the XPF can also be wired in-line, but that will have to be put inside another utility box somewhere between the X10 switch and the first load.

Jeff

[chadmw7]

Ok. I see. So if the filter also blocks the X10 signal, there's no way to really filter the switch from receiving any noise from every direction. I would just have to identify the problem causers and put a filter between each of them and the panel. Is that right?

The Leviton 6287 filter is much smaller, and is designed for 5A loads.  It wires in-line between the X10 switch and the "problem" load.  Unless you have a lot of fluorescent lights controlled by the same switch, a single filter may be adequate for each set of lights.  It often can fit inside the box behind the X10 switch, or it can be wired into the junction box for the first fluorescent light in the string.  The important thing is that it should go between the X10 switch and the first load.  If your load is over 5A, then the XPF can also be wired in-line, but that will have to be put inside another utility box somewhere between the X10 switch and the first load.

Jeff

Ok.  Does anyone make a filter, repeater, or a inline switch for 3 phase 277V?  As soon as I get these fluorescents working, my next goal is to install an inline switch (like a fixture module) to control 4 metal halide gym lights but they are 277V.

[dave w]

Ok.  Does anyone make a filter, repeater, or a inline switch for 3 phase 277V?  As soon as I get these fluorescents working, my next goal is to install an inline switch (like a fixture module) to control 4 metal halide gym lights but they are 277V.

As Jeff Volp noted earlier, his 3 phase repeater will be out soon. Jeff's company makes excellent equipment.

However if you can't wait,  ACT has several X10 repeaters for 3 phase. Mainly depends on the operating voltage. Look under "Coupler Repeater" on this product matrix from ACT.

http://www.act-solutions.com/PCC/PCCSpecFrame.htm

If you need to talk to someone at ACT,  PM me, I have a friend there who can help.