Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[axgupta1]

With CFLs become more popular and being available in different sizes, I want to replace some of the bulbs with CFLs. The problem is that these lights are controlled by WS467 wall switch module which does not support CFLs. What are my options?

Thanks...
Arun

[dave w]

1. Replace wall switch with a "CFL friendly" wall switch such as a WS13A. You need a neutral wire in your wall switch box for the WS13A to work.
2. If multiple fixtures (or sockets) are controlled by one WS467, leave one incandescent bulb in one of the fixtures and put CFLs in the rest.
3. Replace wall switch with standard switch and use Socket Rockets (which play nice with CFLs)  in the fixtures.
and
4. (At your own risk) Depending upon room in your fixture, kluge a 7W night light in the fixture along with the CFL. I have an outdoor fixture large enough to put one of these jewels in, http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1294319   and plug a night light into the adaptor's receptacle. The night light shunts enough current through the wall switch that it works reliably.  It won't work well if your wall switch is the newer soft start module which has the "Resume Dim" feature. When using the local control button, the "Resume Dim" switch can be accidentally programmed to come on at levels less than 100% which the CFL does not like. Also If you have home automation control such as AHP, identify the wall switch as a Socket Rocket or Appliance Module so the software will not think the module is dimable.

[axgupta1]

Because of many constraints, option 2 looks good. Few more questions:
a) If there are two separate fixtures controlled by the same switch, I need to have only one incandescent lamp in any one of the fixtures. Is this assumption correct? I have garage sidelights wired to the same switch. Each fixture has 2 lamps. If I replace 3 lamps with CFLs and leave one at incandescent, will that work?
b) Smarthome has INSTEON paddle style switches which can work with x10 and can control all kind of fluorescent lights. Are these an option? The problem with these switches is that they are so expensive.
c) I understand that WS467 is triac based x10 module. Do these triacs have any issues turning on/off a CFL considering that CFL is not a resistive load?

Thanks...
Arun

[dave w]

Because of many constraints, option 2 looks good. Few more questions:
a) If there are two separate fixtures controlled by the same switch, I need to have only one incandescent lamp in any one of the fixtures. Is this assumption correct? I have garage sidelights wired to the same switch. Each fixture has 2 lamps. If I replace 3 lamps with CFLs and leave one at incandescent, will that work?
b) Smarthome has INSTEON paddle style switches which can work with x10 and can control all kind of fluorescent lights. Are these an option? The problem with these switches is that they are so expensive.
c) I understand that WS467 is triac based x10 module. Do these triacs have any issues turning on/off a CFL considering that CFL is not a resistive load?

Thanks...
Arun

1. Yes, and yes. The two wire WS467 has to get its internal operating power through the load since there is no direct path back to neutral. The CFL's power supply will not pass enough current to operate the WS467 internals, but an incandescent will. So the WS467 gets its operational power through the continuity of the one incandecent bulb.
2. Yes, but it also requires a neutral wire just like the WS13A.
3. Good question. I have had no problems as long as the incandescent bulb is in the circuit AND no one tries to dim the WS467. A Socket Rocket also uses a triac, but it is always gated in full saturation through the entire sine wave, so CFL control is not a problem. As a sidenote, the CFL with a  blocking oscillator power supply (typical) probably looks more resistive than inductive to the triac.

[axgupta1]

Thanks much. I will try the CFL/incandescent combo first as this is the most inexpensive and easy option. If it doesn't work for some reason, I might have to spend the extra cash to get the Insteon switches.

[Brian H]

Insteon switches also need a neutral in the switch box and the relay type would be best. The dimming ones could also not like CFL bulbs. I have used the rarer CCFL bulbs with dimmers. Again the switch needs the neutral so the two wire dimmers don't work with a CCFL either.

[axgupta1]

What kind is of bulb is CCFL? I have never heard of it. I can check it out if it works.

The gang box does have the neutral wire so that is not a problem but I cannot use decorator style switch because it will not fit the box and look odd with other paddle style switches. Only Smarthome (Insteon) makes paddle style switches with relay but they are $45 each.

The light fixtures have limited space. The incandescent bulbs are in candelabra base. Only recently CFLs bulbs have started showing up in candelabra base in small sizes which fits these fixtures. Due to size constraint, I cannot use socket rocket modules.

I am also aware that in the next couple of years, incandescent bulbs are going to be phased out. I have been using CFLs for a long time but had to revert back to using incandescent with x10 controlled fixtures. If I replace all current x10 modules with Smarthome Insteon, it will cost me upwards of $2,500 as their modules are way too expensive.

I am just hoping that some day x10 will come out with something cheaper.

[Brian H]

Cold Cathode Fluorescent Light. Uses same principal as most backlights in laptops.
Much more expensive and only smaller wattage equivalents are now made.

[steven r]

...I am also aware that in the next couple of years, incandescent bulbs are going to be phased out...

I'm not looking forward to it either!
Hopefully LEDs will be more price competitive and/or they'll be more alternatives to the current CFLs. Otherwise I'll be stocking up on incandescent bulbs.

Most CFLs are environmental time bombs!

They contain dangerous quantities of mercury and not enough information is being presented to the public on the hazards and the procedures for safe disposal and clean up. Cost for disposal will eventually trickle down and be included in cost of the bulb. - Maybe we should require deposits on them like they use to do for the glass soft drink bottles. Another idea might be to charge a disposal tax.

If that weren't enough, I hate the light balance they provide over their lifetime and the fact most can't be dimmed.

A video, http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=2219150&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/index.html
An interesting article, http://michellemalkin.com/2007/12/19/incandescent-stupidity-washington-outlaws-100-watt-lightbulbs/.
Also read about a ¼ down the page at this link, http://gulf-coast-hurricanes.blogspot.com/2008/07/more-on-dangers-of-cfl-bulbs.html.

[montolia]

CFL Timebombs? Not really. Yes, they contain mercury, but so does the coal that powers your bulbs. In the end you'll ingest less mercury from switching to CFL's than you would from keeping your incandescent. But you are right... LED's are the way to go. I'm looking forward to LED's coming down in price.

  Here's an analysis of comparison of the two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA2E14uKyZY

FYI... FoxNews is more about entertainment & scaring people than delivery of accurate information.

[axgupta1]

I keep hearing about mercury in CFLs. I used to play with mercury in my bare hands when I was a kid. Nothing happened to me. Some people must be just so sensitive or this whole mercury thing is a hoax.

[dave w]

I keep hearing about mercury in CFLs. I used to play with mercury in my bare hands when I was a kid. Nothing happened to me. Some people must be just so sensitive or this whole mercury thing is a hoax.

I played with mercury also. It is poisonous since it is a heavy metal, and it tends to store in body fat, but I don't think it is that easy to get it in the body. It's Nanny Gov. Once it becomes obvious global warming is a fraud to tax, we will all go back to incandescents since a mini ice age is on the way.

[steven r]

I played with mercury as a kid as well but in retrospect based on current evidence I wouldn't let my kids do it now. The house I lived in as a kid may of had lead paint as well but I wouldn't use it now.
I also agree Fox is not known for accurate news and the link might be a little bit of a dramatic demo.

I still hold the opinion that...

...not enough information is being presented to the public on the hazards and the procedures for safe disposal and clean up. Cost for disposal will eventually trickle down and be included in cost of the bulb. - Maybe we should require deposits on them like they use to do for the glass soft drink bottles. Another idea might be to charge a disposal tax.

The good news is that LED technology is progressing very rapidly and will likely make CFLs obsolete in a few years.

[axgupta1]

Though I do not necessarily trust all the information from government agencies, I believe that they do conduct good testing. Here is a link to what the US EPA has to say about mercury in CFL:

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf

As a side note, I also see such a colossal waste of energy where I work that it has made me skeptical about all this energy saving. I work at a state government agency. They have almost 400 computers in the building. These computers stay on 24x7x365. Employees are directed to leave the computers on so that critical patches can be pushed (via SMS) after hours. Most employees take it to mean that monitor also needs to be left on!! The PC management group is too lazy to make use of wake-on-LAN functionality which is available by default on all PCs.

While I do not have first hand experience of other agencies, from what I know, all PCs in all agencies stay on 24x7x365. This means several thousand PCs are on 24x7x365 and I am told to unplug my cellphone's wall charger to save few watts of electricity.