So what are we going to use for electric to power our X10 stuff?

[Dan Lawrence]

No such thing as a fossil fuel. You should research the history of that term.

Dave, Coal and Oil are fossil fuels. The primeval forests are what those fuels came from, if we ever extract every last of the coal and oil no more will be produced. There's still a lot of coal in North America but most of the oil we use is not in the US or Canada.  That's why Gas runs in the $3.50 (for 87 Octane) and rising due to the upheaval in the Middle East. 

[HA Dave]

Dave, Coal and Oil are fossil fuels. The primeval forests are what those fuels came from, if we ever extract every last of the coal and oil no more will be produced.

I can tell you were educated in North America... as that is what we were taught. However... that IS NOT what all school children around the world are taught. And.. it doesn't explain why asteroid's can have natural gas leaking out of them. But.. there IS an explanation (and NASA even shared it with us). But to understand where gas and oil and coal come from... you have to UN-learn that fossil fuels term. There is NO.. fossil fuels.

[Dan Lawrence]

I will agree to disagree.   If coal and oil are not fossil fuels, then why is none being made today underground?  I went to school in the 1950's and early 1960's and that's what we were taught.  Maybe the children around the world (aside from the US and Canada) are being taught incorrectly.
 

[HA Dave]

If coal and oil are not fossil fuels, then why is none being made today underground? 

They are! And they are being drawn (pumped) out of the ground... as I type.

I went to school in the 1950's and early 1960's and that's what we were taught. 

Maybe... you were taught correctly. How many elements (like in the table of elements) did they teach you we had? Did they teach you that dinosaurs had feathers? Did any of your teachers mention that Titan (one of Saturn' moons) is just frozen ball of Methane (natural gas)... with a iron core?

Maybe if you googled abiotic oil.

[beelocks]

I have no doubt that you're absolutely correct Dave.

I, also, was taught about fossil fuels. There are many articles on the Internet about fossil fuels...

http://fossil.energy.gov/education/energylessons/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel

But then, I was also taught that Pluto was a planet and that Uranus was pronounced "Your Anus"
I was taught to say "please" and "thank you" too - I don't think that gets taught any more.
It used to be common knowledge that there is no conceivable reason for any computer to have more than 640k of memory.

It's entirely possible that the stuff I think of as fossil fuel has been reclassified, but to me it's still called fossil fuel, I still say "please" when I ask for something (and "thank you" when I get it), there are still 9 planets in the solar system and Your Anus is one of them

I'm completely happy to be completely wrong and my wife will confirm that I usually am 

[Knightrider]

I'm completely happy to be completely wrong and my wife will confirm that I usually am 

welcome to the club, my brother.

[HA Dave]

I know. What I am claiming is is completely different than what we were taught. And... I can't PROVE it to be true. But I can PROVE it's NOT wrong. Chemical (rock) creation of natural gas is a fact. The only part in dispute is volume.

[-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)]

I have no doubt that you're absolutely correct Dave.

I, also, was taught about fossil fuels. There are many articles on the Internet about fossil fuels...

http://fossil.energy.gov/education/energylessons/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel

But then, I was also taught that Pluto was a planet and that Uranus was pronounced "Your Anus"
I was taught to say "please" and "thank you" too - I don't think that gets taught any more.
It used to be common knowledge that there is no conceivable reason for any computer to have more than 640k of memory.

It's entirely possible that the stuff I think of as fossil fuel has been reclassified, but to me it's still called fossil fuel, I still say "please" when I ask for something (and "thank you" when I get it), there are still 9 planets in the solar system and Your Anus is one of them

I'm completely happy to be completely wrong and my wife will confirm that I usually am 

I note you never said where you stand on that 640k of memory thing.   

[dave w]

I'm completely happy to be completely wrong and my wife will confirm that I usually am 

welcome to the club, my brother.

This is a pretty large club. If we took dues we could probably bale US and EU out of debt.

[beelocks]

If a tree falls in a forest and there's no-one around to hear, does it still make a noise?

A man says something and his wife isn't around to hear, is he still wrong?

[HA Dave]

If a tree falls in a forest and there's no-one around to hear, does it still make a noise?
A man says something and his wife isn't around to hear, is he still wrong?

Light waves, radio waves, sound waves... are all pretty much the same. Light waves outside the human perceived spectrum (like IR) are called invisible. Light and radio waves make no sound... only because humans can't hear light and radio waves. Hence the generation of waves whether light, radio, or sound only exist because humans can perceive them. Trees that fall outside of human hearing range... fall in silence.

So.. a man can freely speak and be correct.... as long as his wife doesn't hear him.

[dave w]

.... as long as his wife doesn't hear him.

is that possible?


Mine knows what I'm thinking.

"don't even think about it"

See what I mean?

[stoney]

Sources estimate that we have, here in the USA, enough OIL, still in the ground, to last us over then next 2000 years!! Not reserves, though we do have those as well, but OIL in ground.

Now tell those in opposition to drilling / removal / usage of that OIL that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few (to quote from Spock), but true and quite logical.

Granted, we shouldn't even be driving / using internal (infernal) combustion engines but we are until something better, more practical, economical, etc., comes along.

We should NOT be dependant on foreign OIL or foreign fossils!! We have our own right here!!

To borrow an applicable expression from the 60-70's..."Can you dig it?!"

[HA Dave]

No human being has ever gone hungry... due to a lack of food. Planet Earth is bountiful with food. The world has always had plenty for all. It is only the human distribution systems that fail us.

That gem of wisdom would likely be meaningless to anyone who has ever gone hungry... or starved.

Whether you believe in the energy models of the 17th century, when the term fossil fuel was coined. Or a more contemporary belief of a hot Earths core and a Steady State solar system, [at least]. It is meaningless during a rolling blackout.

I am thinking maybe I could.... (by use of solar panels or a very small windmill/wind generator, or both)... create enough power to handle some basic LED lighting.