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[atracy]

I guess this is a warning and a question all at the same time.  I bought some FEIT LED lights at costco because our power company was offering a $10 rebate per bulb.  here's a link to the bulb NOT to buy :

http://www.amazon.com/Feit-Electric-Dimmable-Lumens-Degree/dp/B009BQUC1Q/ref=sr_1_71?ie=UTF8&qid=1361649325&sr=8-71&keywords=led+light+bulbs

however great a deal I thought it was, when I use my ws12a with them, the lights don't turn completely off.  So instead of going out and purchasing a bunch of different dimmable LED lights and trying them out, does anyone have a list or a recommendation of some great LED bulbs that work well with the WS12a?

Thanks so much!!!

[dave w]

The easy answer is "the WS12A is for incandescent bulbs ONLY". Because the 2-wire switch does not need a neutral wire, it must draw power for it's internal electronics through the load, so it will not work (well) with non filament bulbs (CFLs and LEDs).

Both X10 web site and WS12A instructions specify incandescent bulbs only. However, you might get your switch to work if you can put an incandecent bulb in the circuit along with the LEDs.  But you also *might* smoke the bulb or the switch because non dimable LEDs or CFLs do not like the distorted switch output.

[Brian H]

I have tried a few dimmable LED bulbs with a WS12A and as dave w said. They don't work as they are not incandescent and the switch steals power through the load.

Tested the following dimmable LED bulbs. None worked with  WS12A. Some where OK with a LM465 Lamp Module. Though some acted differently between Soft Start and older models.

Phillips LPrize, AmbientLED & EnduraLED.
Lighting Science Group 8.5 watt Definity.
Ecosmart 9 watt LED A19
Sylvania 8 watt ULTRALed

[JeffVolp]

here's a link to the bulb NOT to buy :

http://www.amazon.com/Feit-Electric-Dimmable-Lumens-Degree/dp/B009BQUC1Q/ref=sr_1_71?ie=UTF8&qid=1361649325&sr=8-71&keywords=led+light+bulbs

I have to strongly disagree with you.  They are GREAT bulbs.  They are bright, have good color, and do not generate any noise that interferes with X10 signals.  Your problem is trying to use them with a switch designed to control incandescent bulbs.  That is not the fault of the LED bulb.

Jeff

[Brian H]

This limitation to incandescent bulbs is not unique to the X10 WS12A and WS467.
The Smarthome Insteon two wire SwitchLinc and the two wire Intermatic ZWave HA20C modules. Are also made for incandescent type lamps.

[Noam]

This limitation to incandescent bulbs is not unique to the X10 WS12A and WS467.
The Smarthome Insteon two wire SwitchLinc and the two wire Intermatic ZWave HA20C modules. Are also made for incandescent type lamps.

In addition, *most* older timers I've come across (those without batteries in them that keep the clock and do the switching), have the same limitation. They were designed when incandescent bulbs were the "standard," and easily allowed a way to power the timer without needing a battery in the timer itself. They were designed to be drop-in replacements for single-pole switches, where there wasn't always a neutral line available in the box. That's how the WS12A was designed, too.

Many of the newer timers have batteries in them - not only to keep the clock in the event of a power interruption, but also to actually handle the switching of the high-voltage load.

[dave w]

I wonder if the $10 two wire dimmers from Home Depot, Lowes, etc, work with CFLs and LEDs? Most still use a simple phase shifting network to gate a triac so I'm guessing they may work on dimmable non-incandescents.

If so, a simple DC gear train motor screwed to the wall at the simple dimmer, controlled by a couple Universal Modules for direction control, would allow X10 to control CFLs  and LEDs on a two wire wall box. 

(The hysterical emoticon indicates tongue in cheek, lest someone take me serious)

[Backward Engineering]

I have found that the CREE 8.5 watt dim-able LED sold at Home Depot works where others do not.  I'm using several of the CREE 8.5 watt with X10 dimmers and they turn completely off and remains stable at all power levels without modifications to the X10 dimmers. The dimmers respond to all X10 commands when using the CREE 8.5 watt LEDs.

A possible solution is to modify the WS12A adding a neutral (white) wire so that the current used to power the control circuit does not flow through the load.  The circuit board used in the WA12A is the same as the one used on the WS467.

I'm currently in the process of modifying a WS12A for use with a 5 meter LED light strip

I have drawn a schematic of the WS12A circuit showing the modification adding a neutral wire. The schematic is still work in progress.  
I should have it ready to add to the post later today.

[Brian H]

I have seen a modification to add a Neutral to the WS467.
I have downloaded the one you posted for the WS12A. Thanks.

[Brian H]

How old was your WS12A?
I am curious if yours had surface mounted parts in it?
I know X10 updated the Lamp and Appliance Modules to use easier to find parts. Along with a new controller IC and power supply closer to 5 volt.
I never saw anything on the Wall Switches with soft start and preset dim. Being updated with new parts.

[Backward Engineering]

I do not have any modules that use surface mount components.  I don't know how many generations of the WS12A exist.  I can say that the printed circuit board layout of my WS12A looks exactly like that of the WS467s that I have and they use a chip with the same part number.  However, the WS467s that I have are not soft start but the WS12As are.
It would be nice if the manufactures had a build code that we could refer to.

Don

[Brian H]

Would be nice for added information.
X10 didn't even change the part numbers when they changed how the modules acted. We just got a why is this acting differently type questions.
I had to edit my previous post. The new modules using the Sonix SN8P2501BSB ICs. Where powered by a 5 volt DC on the Lamp and 4.5 volts on the Appliance Modules.