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Author Topic: Which system for which task?  (Read 9826 times)

phorce1

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Which system for which task?
« on: March 27, 2006, 03:53:26 AM »

About to upgrade my home mail/web server to a newer version of it's linux distro.

Also in the process of setting up a home control machine using Windows XP Pro.

I have two machines to play with.

For the home control machine I will be running AHP, Smart Macros, iWitness, X10Dispatcher, and Bill's voice control Java app. Which of the two machines should I dedicate as the home control box?

Athlon 1.3 GHz (old Athlon, not an Athlon XP or anything)

or

DUAL Pentium III 933 MHz (note dual cpu's)

Memory and drive space not an issue. I have enough RAM in junk boxes to populate both machines with at least a Gig of RAM.

I'm leaning toward putting the linux stuff on the dual cpu machine. I think it will be better utilized by the OS there running a web server and mail server concurrently etc.

I've decided not to run any of the X10 web-enabled software (MyHouse online or the iWitness web functions enabled by MHO). I'm an internet professional and I feel the "send your private feeds through OUR server" model is too invasive and as noted by recent posts too dependant on X10 keeping their sh^% all in one sock as far as actually keeping their servers operational.

I'll just use the remote connect functions of XP to view the home system directly.

Gerald
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2006, 07:48:18 AM »

I would put the AHP on the XP box, as well as all the other Active Home related aps.  It may be able to run under Linux, but drivers may be a problem for the CM15A.
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2006, 11:05:03 AM »

I looked in other areas of the Forums, and there are NO drivers by X10 for Linux. There is a third party Linux driver but it may not have been tested.

Go with the XP box, it will save time and frustration.
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phorce1

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2006, 02:40:12 PM »

I think I got too verbose in the original question.

It was a hardware question. Yes, AHP will go on the box which has Windows XP installed.

But, of the two machines described, which one should I install Windows XP and AHP on? The 1.3 giggle-hurts Athlon or the dual 933 giggle-hurts P3?

Gerald
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2006, 03:25:11 PM »

OK.

Easy answer: Your choice. Both boxes can support XP, the difference is what the processor will do. The dual core processor should be able to handle XP-64, but that brings up the driver question.  I believe X10 has a 64-bit diriver available but you have to ask X10 Pro for the link.
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phorce1

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2006, 03:51:04 PM »

So to make life easy(ier) I'll just put AHP/XP on the Athlon and put my linux mail/web server on the dual cpu box. I still have to fiddle around with the cooling in it anyway, I've got one CPU running 20 degrees hotter than the other with the motherboard not even in a case yet. Bad thermal contact on the cooler I think since it's not actually doing any work right now (no OS installed).

thanks,

Gerald
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Mystyx

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2006, 09:02:03 PM »

to compare...
I run a AMD XP2500, 1Gb mem, 128Mb video as my main system, runs smooth for everything.
running windows XP pro, SP2 on both machines.

I have an old P2 400Mhz, 768Mb mem, 32Mbor64Mb video (cant remember off hand) that I setup for just home automation (which I dont use much atm, house power thing :) )
I found it ran AHP fairly good, but the video settings I had to turn down a bit and its a bit choppy compared.

your 1.3Mhz will probably run it ok, but not sure with voice contrl and X10 dispatch too & with all the video settings max.

Ill add that my P2 400Mhz runs macros and switches faster then the CM15A alone, from what ive seen.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2006, 09:23:57 PM by Mystyx »
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phorce1

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2006, 04:00:28 PM »

The computer will be running 24/7. I'll probably never actually save the data to the CM15A. If the computer is down it's because the power's out -- makes saving the data to the remote unit a bit useless.  ;D

I just wish someone had an AHP equivalent written to run under XWindows on a linux box. The OS is less of a resource hog allowing the apps to run more efficiently. I have a couple of old Sparc Ultra1 machines (166 MHz - 512 Meg) that run windowed apps almost as fast as my 1.3 to 1.6 GHz machines that run Windows XP.

Bill's voice control is Java and will create a significant hit on the machine. It runs OK as a standalone app on a Celeron 600 with 512 Meg but the machine takes so long to boot WinXP that I'm afraid loading more apps will kill it.

I'd have to jump through a few extra hoops to get a remote desktop from a Windows box but...

Would be nice if X10 would release the web enabling part of their code so it could be plugged into anybody's Apache server. I won't be running the web enabled stuff simply because I don't trust any company that forces you to send all of your data through their servers when it's stuff they have no business accessing (my personal security video streams and control of all my X10 enabled devices).

Gerald
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X10 Pro

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2006, 05:08:49 PM »

Gerald: Running AHP on an old system should be fine, and performance shouldn't take too much of a hit unless you are going to run iWitness and process video. If you run timers from the PC, you don't have to keep the main AHP program open -- the X10 service will run the timers and macros without it. That will help performance tons.

If you run timers stored in the interface, they don't work when power goes out, but they do come back automatically when power comes back. Unless you have a serious UPS or a system that automatically turns on when power is restored, that might be worth it.

The main reason that we offer the MyHouse service going through our servers is that most of our customers aren't Internet professionals and wouldn't be able to set up a server or sharing scheme on their own that would work through firewalls, NAT, etc. I can understand your hesitation to use it, but we don't have it set up that way to be invasive. It actually costs us money to run, since it uses our bandwidth and our servers.

XRay Vision and WebView both offer services that don't send your data through our servers, except for directory services and authentication. You can also very easily use the ActiveHome Pro SDK to run a service on a web server to control devices through the CM15A.
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Mystyx

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2006, 08:56:13 PM »

Id have to agree with phorce1, I also don't trust logging to another server to display my security :)
But, just having the AHP program installed puts a link to X10 running , which I would like removed too.
no need, except to verify registration? (Windows Only Activates ONE Time during Installation, X10 should too)...  more cost to X10 doing it this way... probably why after paying $150 for AHP, Smartmacros & iWitness they cant afford to give me a copy of MyHouse (which all pluggins are now $50) Ive already payed 3 times the cost?? :) Guess Im stuck without it :(
« Last Edit: March 29, 2006, 09:33:30 PM by Mystyx »
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X10 Pro

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2006, 08:58:33 PM »

We don't keep a connection open to X10.com all the time. We do check for updates every time AHP starts, but that's it. The registration is checked without connecting to X10 at all.
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Mystyx

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2006, 09:07:23 PM »

Ahh, OK... so the file running is just on my machine then, no access through that file always loaded? why is that file loaded and have to be shut down and deleted seperate when reinstalling AHP software even though AHP is no longer on the harddrive but it still boots up with X10 file ?
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phorce1

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2006, 04:58:54 AM »

I'll be running iWitness for video. I should have the machine together this weekend. I've been playing around in the new house figuring out what I'll need beyond the basic X10 stuff I have now. I'll be placing an order through a dealer tonight or tomorrow so I should have AHP to play with about the same time the machine is done.

All mission critical systems at my home have the bios set to return to the POWER ON state in the event of a power outage.

I understand the reason for the "simple setup" way the X10 web services are done. But there are 'net ready' cameras out there that are plun-n-play simple because they use custom web servers written on single chip computers. X10 could offer YAPH (Yet Another Piece of Hardware) for the system. Essentially a home web server that would recieve/transmit the data provided by an AHP system on the local home network. No need to send the video stream to X10 then from X10 to the customer. The hardware could be configured to verify the registration ONCE with the X10 servers and write the info to NVRAM so it doesn't have to connect to verify registration repeatedly.

The "self serving" net cams run in the $100 to $400 range so X10 would be looking to meet probably a $200 hardware street cost.

Besides privacy I don't like the X10 model because it depends on YOUR servers. It adds another layer of troubleshooting when something doesn't work. Is it my computer, my ISP, or you? And, if I've paid for a piece of software to do something on the internet and it doesn't work because YOUR servers are having connectivity or database problems I'm going to be upset, VERY upset. If it doesn't work because one of MY systems is freaking out all I have to do is find a mirror to start yelling the main guy at fault.  ;D

Even the fact that AHP and iWitness require one to connect to an internet server for registration purposes, when the software does not require an internet connection to be useful, is bothersome. You'd be surprised how many people out there still don't "do" the Internet even though they do have a computer. I've spoken to many of my customers each year who are going back to using their computers to PRINT the letters they mail because they simply didn't want to deal with the hassles of protecting themselves from spammers and additional avenues of potential identity theft. They are intelligent people with plenty of electronic 'gadgets' whose active lives simply preclude investing the time the Internet requires to use it safely. Active lives that might benefit from home automation.

I *LIKE* X10 products. But I think the marketing department should be shot dead. It feels like a used car salesman is in charge. The sales pitch and web site is "scheister like". One item with multiple prices depending on which sales pitch (security, automation, net connectivity) is being viewed. "Special packages" that aren't all that special if one digs far enough to find the pages advertising each individual item at the lowest price.

I'm buying the parts and I'll tweak around and get it working because I like the equipment. But every time I end up on the main website looking for actual information I can hear Billy Joe Jim Bob down at the car lot:

"This here 1982 Plymouth K-Body is a classic Son. It can only go up in value. I had a youn man looking at it earlier but he said he had to get his accountant to get the money out of one of his bank accounts. He was willing to pay he full $7995 window price but I ain't heard from him in over an hour now. I really need to move it so if you have the money for the downpayment I'll let you have it for $7495 right now! It's got a fully automatic manual transmission, all leather naugahyde interior (them cigarrette burns add some character now don't they boy!). She smokes a little but runs like a top once you get her warmed up. Gets the BEST mileage I ever seen in a classic like this!"

And every time you ask him a question he answers with information about something completely different.

Uhhh... Sorry, poor advertising of a good product bugs me. It bugs me even more when the best technical information I can find is on the personal websites of users of the product. (See my topic in the GENERAL area -- sticky it if you can).

Back to the subject. I'm an integrator and system designer, not a programmer. So the SDK really does me no good. I look at a problem to be solved then go hunting for existing solutions, mixing and matching as necessary. In this case Windows XP Pro and remote desktop should do nicely. If I want a bit of additional security beyond my Windows password I'll lock down the remote access ports and add a port knocking daemon to my linux based router to open them up only when I need them.

Thanks for your reply. X10 tech support has always been quick to answer my emailed questions in the past. You appear to be trying to keep up here as well.

Gerald
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phorce1

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2006, 05:02:50 AM »

Ahh, OK... so the file running is just on my machine then, no access through that file always loaded? why is that file loaded and have to be shut down and deleted seperate when reinstalling AHP software even though AHP is no longer on the harddrive but it still boots up with X10 file ?

That would be the X10 "service". A "service" in Windows terms is a program that runs in the background from the Windows init files (ie. no one has to log in and start the program by running it manually or from their startup folder). As the X10 Pro tech mentioned in his reply to me the X10 'service' continues to run in the background to run macros and timers even if AHP is not loaded and visible on the screen.

Gerald
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Mystyx

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Re: Which system for which task?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2006, 09:58:35 AM »

I couldnt have said it better :) Nice Post phorce1
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Anything is Possible, NOW!! But What can I afford?!
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