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[steven r]

...or eliminating the mystery signal.

I have a welcome macro that among other things brightens the porch light to 98% (C1), turns on the hot water pump (H2) and turns on the living room light (C6). Also in spite of there being no signal sent in the macro or recorded by the activity monitor for C5, it turns on any wall switch or lamp module set to (C5). However, when I put a 1 sec delay between the porch light and the hot water pump the mystery signal disappears.

[roger1818]

This is a well known bug that has been around for more than a year.  X10 Pro has never commented on if they can fix it or not.  The rule of thumb is if in a macro you dim a light, put a 1 second delay between that and turning a module on or off (sending another dim command seem to be OK).

[Noam]

Some users have reported that a 0 second delay will also work, and won't slow down your events as much.

[steven r]

Some users have reported that a 0 second delay will also work, and won't slow down your events as much.

In my case it requires 1 second; 0 didn't work.

This is a well known bug that has been around for more than a year....

I didn't realise it was a known repeatable bug till this case but I have been using delays of a few seconds for a long time just to be safe.

[X10 Pro]

I haven't been able to reproduce this here, though I have tried several times. Can anyone confirm (by watching with another CM15A, CM11A, or something else) that the CM15A is producing extra X10 signals in this case? I don't see it when I watch the powerline in the test set-up I have, but it's also not exactly a real-world environment.

[steven r]

I haven't been able to reproduce this here, though I have tried several times. Can anyone confirm (by watching with another CM15A, CM11A, or something else) that the CM15A is producing extra X10 signals in this case? I don't see it when I watch the powerline in the test set-up I have, but it's also not exactly a real-world environment.

If I had the equipment to test the line, I would.
In my case I never sent a "C5 ON" and AHP did not record any "C5 ON" being sent. To further verify my condition, I switched the wall switch and lamp module in the next room to the code "C5" and they both came on also.
Don't give up looking for a solution as it looks like others maybe having similar problem. My problem might  be that one of my other wall switches I believe boosts the X10 signal in the house. Maybe there was a repeatable overlap that triggered it. Anyway I can live with a 1 sec delay.

[roger1818]

Some users have reported that a 0 second delay will also work, and won't slow down your events as much.

In my case it requires 1 second; 0 didn't work.

That has been my experience as well.  There are times when a 0 second delay can be helpful, but for this bug, it doesn't seem to help.

[roger1818]

I haven't been able to reproduce this here, though I have tried several times. Can anyone confirm (by watching with another CM15A, CM11A, or something else) that the CM15A is producing extra X10 signals in this case? I don't see it when I watch the powerline in the test set-up I have, but it's also not exactly a real-world environment.

I will try to do it sometime this week.  I am not sure when it will happen though since the NHL playoffs have started.  Go! Sens! Go! 

My guess, however, is that it isn't a real command, but until I see it I won't know for sure.  Whatever it is, X10 brand modules do respond to it.

[Charles Sullivan]

Here are the results of my tests, conducted with AHP 3.203 under Win XP Pro SP2 and a "diagnostic" CM15A with date sticker 05C10.
The power line is monitored by a CM11A on another PC running the Heyu software under Linux.  The CM11A and CM15A are plugged into the same plugstrip.  I have two LM465 lamp modules with connected 100W lamps set as addresses C5 and C6.  I also have a AM486 appliance module set to address C5 (with nothing plugged into it).   I have nothing on addresses C1 or H2.

The CM15A is running with _no batteries installed_.

In summary, I can reproduce the problem reported by steven r. 

For the AHP setup:
1. File > New
2. Drag in 3 LM465 lamp modules and 1 AM486 appliance module.
3. Set the addresses of the lamp modules to C1, C5, and C6 and the address of the appliance module to H2.
4. Create New Macro B1 ON.
5. Drag lamp module C1 into macro and Set Absolute 98%
6. Drag appliance module H2 into macro and set ON
7. Drag lamp module C6 into macro and Set Absolute 100%
8. Save file.
9. Tools > Download Timers and Macros.  Let AHP change the monitored housecode to C.

Test 1: Send All_Off C and B1 On either from the receiving CM11A or from a MiniController.
Results:
The CM11A reports: C1, C Bri 100%, (no dim), H2, H On, C6, C Bri 100%.  No report of anything on C5.
Both lamps C6 and C5 turn On.  No click is heard from the appliance module on C5.

Test 2: Change C1 to Set Absolute 96%; save file and download as per steps 8 and 9 above.
Again send All_Off C and B1 On.
Results:
The CM11A reports: C1, C Bri 100%, (no dim), H2, H On, C6, C Bri 100%.  No report of anything on C5.
This time only lamp C6 turns On.  Again no click from the appliance module.

Test 3: Change C1 to Set Absolute 94%; save file and download as per steps 8 and 9 above.
Again send All_Off C and B1 On.
Results:
This time the CM11A reports H3, C Dim 2%, H2, H On, C6, C Bri 100%
Again only C6 turns On.

Test 4: Change C1 to Set Absolute 92%; save file and download as per steps 8 and 9 above.
Again send All_Off C and B1 On.
Results: (This one is really interesting; I get different results when repeating the trigger.)
Sometimes the CM11A reports: C1, C Bri 100%, C Dim 3% (7/210), H2, H On, C6, C Bri 100%
and only lamp C6 turns On.
Other times the CM11A reports H3, C Dim 4% (8/210), H2, H On, C6, C Bri 100%
and both lamps C5 and C6 turn On.
Note: I have previously demonstrated that the difference of 1/210 in the CM11A's dim report
results from the CM11A receiving a dim signal which begins on the rising zero crossing
versus the falling zero crossing, at least when the dim is sent from another CM11A or a
plug-in controller.

Other tests: When C1 is changed  to Set Absolute 90% and 88%, only light C6 turns on,
however with 88% the CM11A reports H3, C Dim 8%, ... as with Set Absolute 94%.
With C1 changed to Set Absolute 87%, I observe the same different behavior as with 92%.

Other results: If the physical address of module C5 is changed to some other unit code
(I tried C3, C4, C7, C9, and C13),  the lamp _doesn't_ turn on.  In no instance does the
appliance module on C5 turn On (as evidenced by an audible click).  In all cases, the
AHP Activity Monitor displays the signals as programmed, not as they're often reported
differently by the CM11A.

Final note: If the effects above cannot be reproduced, momentarily interrupt the AC power to the
CM15A, then re-download the macros.  (Remember there are no batteries in my CM15A.)

[roger1818]

Charles:  Thanks for taking the time to do this test and submit the results.  Hopefully X10 Pro will be able to reproduce the strange behaviour and fix the problem.

[X10 Pro]

So, the CM11A never shows a C5 being sent? That's consistent with what I saw in testing this before (in so far as no signal is consistent with no signal). AHP's Activity Monitor will always show the commands as they appear in the macro because AHP is getting the memory location of the macro command from the CM15A, not the commands being sent.

I wouldn't expect the appliance module on C5 to ever turn on, because appliance modules don't respond to Bright/Dim commands, and this appears to be related timing of dims, brights, and address commands. I would bet if you change the preference to make the macro command absolute on send an "On" instead of "100% bright" you wouldn't see this behavior either.

I'll try this out here and see what I get. I suspect this isn't a problem with AHP, but an interaction of X10 commands on the powerline and the timing used by the CM15A when it sends them.

[Charles Sullivan]

X10Pro:
Correct - no C5 signal was ever reported by the CM11A.

I agree with your assessment that it's likely a timing problem in the CM15A which is corrupting the power line signals.  The addition of the appliance module to address C5 and the changes in unit code of the C5 dimmer was to test whether the signals were somehow being corrupted to an On signal or an All_Lights_On signal. (They're not.)

One possibly related effect I've often noticed (which is erratic and difficult to reproduce) is if the CM15A (with no batteries) has been disconnected from AC power and from the PC for an extended period of time (usually days in my case), then powered up and a macro is downloaded.  When the macro is triggered by a signal from the CM11A, the CM15A responds extremely rapidly - so rapidly that the macro power line signal is sent before the CM11A can complete its handshake for the triggering signal and return its "ready" status.   I've found that momentarily interrupting the AC power to the CM15A and re-downloading the macro is usually sufficient to return the CM15A's response time to normal.  (This is probably why the advice to temporarily unplug the CM15A and remove/reinsert the batteries often seems to solve various problems.)