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[DIYguy]

This one has me stumped.  I have an extensive X10 network in my house and have been using the technology for at least fifteen + years.  On Tuesday, 9/2 every X10 device in the house stopped responding.  (I live outside St Paul, MN which may or may not be pertinent)  I have about fifteen SR227 super sockets controlling a variety of timed devices from LV yard lights, pond lights, reef tank aquarium lights, etc.  Any devices that were on can't be turned off without unplugging them, any devices that were off can't be turned on.  Motion detecting floodlights are all on all day  and had to be shut down.  The only change to the system that I was suspicious of was I upgraded my living room AV system to the latest HD, Blu-Ray, receiver, etc which included a line filter power supply.  This was installed Saturday, the X10 system worked fine until Tuesday.  I have filters on all TVs and computers and pump motors (SmartHome FilterLinc 10 amp noise plug-in noise filters)  Everything worked perfectly until it didn't work at all.  No ghosts, no intermittent.

Here's the info so far....
Dedicated computer running AH Pro with USB interface.
ControlLinc Maxi controller for living room
Phase coupler wired to the load center
SmartHome BoosterLink PLC signal booster
X10 RF remotes programed
(2) motion activated flood lights
ToggleLinc light switches
SR227 outlets
Others....

I tried unplugging the new power filter and complete AV system....no response.
Unplugged multiple pumps and noise generaters even though they were plugged into filters....no response.
Direct access through AH.....no response.
Direct address access through ControlLinc pad.... not response
RF access....no response
I pulled up AH system log and it did track every outgoing and incoming signal.  I watched as I sent an RF signal and the log tracked it live, showing it received, no response.
Have a light plugged into a controlled SR227 outlet that has the USB interface plugged into the uncontrolled socket.  This has been working perfectly for nearly five years now.  A direct command sent through the interface to the light plugged into the same socket has no response.
Pulled the interface, dumped the batteries, new batteries, purge the memory and download new timers....no response.

My first thought was the interface went bad so no signals going in or out but the log and different controllers ruled that out.

After a loooong time on hold I did speak with an X10 tech.  After getting past the "is it plugged in" level of support the response was "the electric company must have made a change to my electrical service"  What the ####?  This is where the St Paul part comes in for those following the RNC as Excel Energy is the electrical company.  The Tuesday failure time is probably just a coincidence with the other things going on.

Do anyone have any idea what could cause a full system failure of this level?

[JeffVolp]

I think the only thing that can cause such a severe problem is a strong noise source.  X10 commands are sent as a series of 120KHz bursts on the powerline.  Presence of a burst is decoded as a logic "1", absence of a burst as a logic "0".  A noise source can fill in those gaps.  The receiving modules will decode the noise as additional "1"s, causing the commands to be rejected.

A X10 signal meter that can measure background noise, such as the ESM1, should help you track down the problem.  Here is a report on a particularly nasty device that could be overlooked:  http://jvde.us/x10/x10_cellet_noise.htm

Jeff

[DIYguy]

This brings up the question of what could be causing the source of that extreme of signal noise to completely shut down all X10.  Some noise and intermittent response would be one thing but total failure is puzzling.  The only thing that has changed in the house is the AV system which is a known signal sucker.  I have ordered additional filters for the new system and did not have one installed initially.  When the system shut down I pulled a filter from a pump and installed it between the Dynex line filter/power strip and the outlet, will replace pump filter when new ones arrive.  I did think about the signal booster that if that went bad it could be boosting noise instead of signal so I unplugged the signal booster.  Even though everything has been in place and functioning fine I did go and unplug multiple possible noise generater and signal suckers (computer UPS, HD TVs, pumps) no change.  A signal analyzer is $350 so that's not in my tool box.

Anyone heard of "bad power" from the utility company?  Can the source of the noise be outside the house such as a bad transformer?
JJ

[JeffVolp]

You will find the Elk ESM1 is a whole lot less than $350.  I believe there is even an on-line automation store that will lend you one if you pay a deposit.

I don't think your problem is signal suckers.  Did you read that Cellet report?  That unit pretty much did the same for another X10 user.

I don't know about "bad power" from a utility company, but a neighbor on a shared utility transformer could certainly be placing something on your line that can interfere with X10 communication.  Again, a signal meter will help.

Jeff

[DIYguy]

Thanks Jeff, did read the Cellet report.  Cell phones are Samsung and have been for years, no change there.  No phones charging during this period of problems.  In your report on the "Evolution of the XTB" you mentioned a problem with a Sony XBR TV from the early 90's.  I thought the XBR was a fairly recent model but noting this as the TV I added Saturday is the Sony Bravia XBR series.  As the TV, Blu-Ray, receiver, power strip, HD Sat, etc, are all new changes this was the first place to look.  Everything else is status quo.

Looks like I need to order an ESM1 ($75 - $85).  The analyzer's I've looked at are in the $300 - $350 range so slow to add those to the tool box.
JJ

[DIYguy]

FYI follow-up:
I just got off the phone with one of the engineers with Excel Energy.  He did do a follow-up from our earlier chat and did confirm that there was a powerline failure in the vicinity of my house on Tuesday morning.  Problem should have been repaired but as I am still having issues he's going to investigate further.  He wants to make sure there isn't a secondary issue to the failure.  Surprised he actually did follow-up and call back.  Curious if he finds anything else.
JJ

[JeffVolp]

The power company problem may be related indirectly.  I found that Cellet charger was VERY sensitive to load.  Switching supplies in general are sensitive to line voltage.  If your line voltage is low (or high) due to the power company problem, it is very possible that a switching supply somewhere - even one of your previously benign chargers - has shifted its switching frequency into the X10 band.  That is also true for compact fluorescent lights.  You will have to look for a noise source - either inside your house or possibly coming in from a neighbor sharing the same utility transformer.  If coming in from outside, you may have to resort to the PZZ01 blocking coupler.

Jeff

[Jsnlong]

HOPE the power company gets it for you. It sucks to loose your automation when we all get use to living with it.

 You said  ("I live outside St Paul, MN which may or may not be pertinent")!!!!!!!!  maybe a goverment cover up for the RNC going on there    that should get the paranoid people talking lol

Good Luck

[DIYguy]

PROBABLY not the power company.  Engineer did get back again. The line failure (which did not result in a power failure) even though a few blocks away was a different grid than the one I'm on.

Spent more time last night (Thursday) trouble shooting system.  I had unplugged any suspicious devices Wednesday night, tried accessing system Thursday night and still no go.  Rebooted the computer and tried again and actually had some devices respond.  Went through every device, reset them and it seemed that the system was up again.  Next I plugged the BoosterLinc back in and started reinstalling my InsteOn modules.  Relinked those devices and it seemed like everything was working  By this time it was almost 8:00 so turned on the TV for the RNC.  There are a variety of timer events starting at 8:00, none triggered.  Checked system and everything dead again.  I did notice that earlier the ControlLinc Maxi keypad status light was flickering fast and was now not on at all.  The four InsteOn plug-in modules also appeared dead, no status light.  Another puzzle to the mystery.  BoosterLinc was the only device that appeared to be working, normal status light.  ?
Looks like I start over again tonight
JJ

[Brian H]

Are you running the Insteon Modules with X10 addresses or trying Insteon Control?
Old BoosterLincs are known to not work with Insteon Devices. Smarthome has a list of firmware and  hardware numbers of problem BoosterLincs.

[DIYguy]

The InsteOn devices are strictly InsteOn controlled.  Those are replacements for a number of the old style X10 lamp modules and more of an experiment for the newer technology.  The ControlLinc Maxi  is X10 only, mainly for addressing devices and not going through AH pro.  I have a number of ToggleLinc wall switches that are X10 controlled.  A couple of switches are ToggleLinc v2 which is suppose to be InsteOn and X10.  The V2 switches have not linked as well as the X10 only.  I really like the idea of salvaging the legacy X10 system and InsteOn being dual compatable.  Unlike X10, the more devices in the system, the stronger the system.  Down side.....spendy.

The BoosterLinc (X10 only) has been in place for over a year and I did check that version long time ago when I read that the earlier version wasn't compatible with InsteOn.

Side note:  Wife e-mailed me to inform me a tech from the electric company was at the house this morning and installed a line meter to monitor electrical flow, spikes, line noise etc.  Why can't we get the cable company out that fast?
JJ