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[axgupta1]

I am not sure if this question belongs in this forum but from the posts, I am impressed with the knowledge of forum moderators/responders so I will ask shamelessly. I have a chandelier in the foyer area which is controlled by 4 switches. If I can get that chandelier to be controlled by x10, it would be the ultimate thing. I read somewhere long time ago that x10 can control n-way circuits only when the load is at the far end of the circuit. If the load is in between the switches, then x10 will not work. I do not know of a way to find out how the chandelier has been wired and it is too high to reach.

Is it even possible to control it using x10 without knowing how it is wired? If yes, then what kind of modules would I use?

Thanks...

[Oldtimer]

Here's a start to solving your problem.

First I doublt that the light is in the middle of the switch bank because of the electrical code.

Second the switches at the two ends of the circuit will be different than the two in the middle.  If you open up the boxes you should find two switches with three connections and two with four connections.  The two with three connections are at each end of circuit and the two with four connections will be in the middle of the circuit.  You light should be at one of the ends with three connections.

Third pick out which X10 3 way switches you want to use and get the installation instructions for them off of their site. your choice will depend on the wattage of the light and whether or not you want dimming.

Finally figure out in advance how you're going adapt your existing wiring to the X10 modules.

Worst case will be that you have to try the control module in both end locations before you get the installation to work.

Keep us posted.

[axgupta1]

Thanks...that was excellent reply. I am doing research on which modules I will need but nowadays on the x10.com site, I can't seem to find anything. WS4777 switch would do nicely but I cannot find companion switch being sold separately. Only the decorator style WS12 is available but it won't fit. I will keep the post updated. It may be some time before I can find everything.

[Boiler]

Thanks...that was excellent reply. I am doing research on which modules I will need but nowadays on the x10.com site, I can't seem to find anything. WS4777 switch would do nicely but I cannot find companion switch being sold separately. Only the decorator style WS12 is available but it won't fit. I will keep the post updated. It may be some time before I can find everything.

Now that's a bit curious.  You're correct that X10 doesn't appear to offer the CS277 companion for sale separately.  Apparently you are the only person who has ever wanted to install a push button 4-way (JOKE). 

The CS277's are available at other vendors (Smarthome and Ebay).

If you haven't run across it yet, X10 has 4-way install instructions here : 4-Way wiring

[axgupta1]

Yep...it sure looks like I am the only one.. I did find the install instructions on the x10 website. The WS4777 and CS277 are available very cheap at:

http://www.thehomeautomationstore.com/cs277.html

I am going to order two sets, one for the 4 switch controlled chandelier and one standard 3-way for the basement. Whatever is the outcome, I will post it here.

[axgupta1]

I wired my first 3-way x10 successfully in the basement. It was easy to identify the wiring. Most of the time was spent in tightening the screws on companion switch. The screws which x10 supplied were right size for wall switch module but a bit too big for the companion switch. After lot of struggle and one broken screw, I could tighten only one screw. Maybe x10 needs a bit more work on supplying proper fit hardware.

The wall switch seems to be a soft on/soft off. Whenever I press on, the lights start from dim->bright slowly. When I turn them off, they go bright->dim slowly. The module also somehow remembers the last brightnes level and will brighten the lights to the last level only. Would have looked very nice elsewhere but in the basement, there is no one to admire the effect!!

The 4-way chandelier project might not materialize at all. I did get all the x10 switches and identified the wiring etc but ran into some issues. The chandelier has 15 bulbs of 60w each. This exceeds the 500w limit of x10 wall switch module. Even if I replace (though it is not going to be easy considering the height of chandelier) the bulbs with 40w each, the total wattage still exceeds 500w. My only option would be to replace bulbs with 25w bulbs. However, in this case, I risk losing the dimming capability since 25w is the absolute lower limit. Any ideas?

Thanks...
Arun

[Boiler]

The wall switch seems to be a soft on/soft off. Whenever I press on, the lights start from dim->bright slowly. When I turn them off, they go bright->dim slowly. The module also somehow remembers the last brightnes level and will brighten the lights to the last level only. Would have looked very nice elsewhere but in the basement, there is no one to admire the effect!!

Arun,
Yes the later WS467 (WS4777 3-way) units are soft start.  If you plan on using these with AHP, please identify them as LM14a 2-way lamp modules.  Doing so will avert problems that these units have with turning on in response to a bright/dim command.

The 4-way chandelier project might not materialize at all. I did get all the x10 switches and identified the wiring etc but ran into some issues. The chandelier has 15 bulbs of 60w each. This exceeds the 500w limit of x10 wall switch module. Even if I replace (though it is not going to be easy considering the height of chandelier) the bulbs with 40w each, the total wattage still exceeds 500w. My only option would be to replace bulbs with 25w bulbs. However, in this case, I risk losing the dimming capability since 25w is the absolute lower limit. Any ideas?

Actually, the min wattage applies to the total load.  If you have 15 - 25Watt bulbs you'll be far beyond that.

Rather than cutting back the wattage of your bulbs, you may want to consider a 1000W dimmer.  Leviton and other manufacturers make 1000W X10 compatible dimmers.  The Leviton model is a HCM10-1SW (a bit pricey) and is also interfaced using the LM14a module within AHP.  If you are interested in pursuing this, pay attention to the "derating" guidelines if you have multiple dimmers in your switch box.

[JeffVolp]

There are other manufacturers that do make dimmers rated for 1000W when installed by themselves.  (The rating is reduced if they share an electrical box with another dimmer due to the combined dissipation.)  We used the discontinued Leviton 6343 here for the heavy dimmer loads, but that has been superseded by a newer electrically-programmed switch.

One thing to keep in mind is that any dimmer will dissipate as waste heat approximately 1% of the power delivered to the load.  When cranked up to 1000W, that means about 10W will be dissipated by the dimmer itself.  I recommend using a metal box and a metal wallplate to help dissipate that heat.  Even at that, the wall plate will get pretty warm when the brightness is cranked up.

Jeff

[axgupta1]

I did see the Leviton dimmer. The chandelier is controlled by 4 switches so the Leviton dimmer will not work. I wanted to tackle the project with WS4777/CS277. It was faulty planning on my part. I forgot to check the wattage of bulbs before buying the WS4777/CS277.

Thanks...
Arun

[axgupta1]

Sorry, the Leviton module you mentioned will work. The problem is that it will be lot more work to fit these modules into existing box since all the boxes have more than one switch. Installing these decorative style modules with normal switches will be hard and will spoil the uniform look.

Thanks...
Arun

[Boiler]

Sorry, the Leviton module you mentioned will work. The problem is that it will be lot more work to fit these modules into existing box since all the boxes have more than one switch. Installing these decorative style modules with normal switches will be hard and will spoil the uniform look.

Arun,

Sorry, forgot that you had the toggle switches.  That does make things a bit more difficult with your current load (900W). 

We should probably back up a bit and review your current install. 

From your description, I'm assuming that you have a single (high wattage dimmer) connected to the load with two other mechanical switches elsewhere - correct?

If your dimmer is installed in a multigang  box with other dimmers that may kill things.  As Jeff noted, a 1000W dimmer will dissipate roughly 10W at full brightness.  If you have other dimmers in the switch box you can quickly exceed the switches ability to dissipate the heat.  If other dimmers are installed in the same box, the wattage rating must be "de-rated" to compensate for their waste heat (manufacturers differ on the amount of derating).  A metal box is preferable since it will conduct the heat outward. 

Smarthome does make 1000W "toggle" dimmers (x10 compatible).  These aren't inexpensive and they are typically installed in a box by themselves (you have to break off heat sink tabs to install in a multi-gang box).  Give us a better idea of your existing install and we'll try to find something that fits.

[axgupta1]

Boiler,
First accept my thanks for trying to give me more ideas.

My setup is that the chandelier is controlled by 4 switches.

The first switch is installed at the front door. The gang box had two other switches for patio and garage lights. I have already replaced both these switches by WS467. The third switch is a 3-terminal switch which controls the chandelier. If I replace it with a WS4777, heat dissipation will be an issue at full brightness. However, I am not sure if this is the start or end of the circuit. If this is the start, then heat dissipation will be an issue, if it is the end, then only CS277 will be required and heat dissipation will not be a problem.

The second 3-terminal switch is in the foyer area. This switch is in a 2-switch gang box. The second switch in this box controls a fluorescent light fixture in the kitchen. I am fully suspecting that the 3-terminal chandelier switch in this box is start of circuit but I did not test this thoroughly.

The third 4-terminal switch is in the kitchen area. This is installed in a 2-switch gang box and the second switch controls the fluorescent light fixture in the kitchen.

The fourth 4-terminal switch is upstairs. This is installed in a 2-switch gang box and the second switch controls the light fixture at the upper end of staircase.

As you can see, all 4 switches which control the chandelier share the gang box with another toggle switch or WS467. I have no intention of replacing any other toggle switch except the chandelier switches. There is no existing dimmer for the chandelier, just plain on/off. This is the reason I wanted to control the chandelier with x10, so I can dim as well as trigger it with motion detector at front door.

After studying the chandelier circuit and success with 3-way switch, I was feeling confident but the wattage is killing my plan.

Thanks...
Arun Gupta

[axgupta1]

Finally, mission accomplished. I can now control the chandelier through x10 from all 4 locations.