Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: I’m an idiot … and maybe you are too!  (Read 3746 times)

Dave4720

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 13
  • Posts: 81
I’m an idiot … and maybe you are too!
« on: April 27, 2010, 04:56:24 PM »

Well, maybe I should just speak for myself.   ;D

I’ve been fairly stupid, and I’m here to offer help.  I have my story, and then I’ll include some tips based on how I set up my X10 system.   There are expert people here giving advice; I am just relating my own actual experience.

I already had the level-stomping XTB-IIR and the very sensitive V572 Transceiver, so I though those high level key pieces would ensure my system success.

Wrong!  A system is only good as the total system, not any of the pieces.

After a couple of YEARS of fiddling with my X10 system (involving two side-by-side houses), and the random errors and sometimes-flaky reliability, I FINALLY got an XTBM VoLpmeter!

Now for the disclaimer:  I’m not saying you have to get an XTBM VoLpmeter, but get SOME X10 meter and USE it!  I’m embarrassed to say that I am an electronic engineer and would not think about designing and troubleshooting at work without my test equipment, and here I am at home trying to figure out why things don’t work properly, AND I’M BLIND without a dedicated X10 Signal Level Meter / Noise Meter / Command Display.  That’s why I’m an idiot … or at least acting like one!

Think of what you do at your job … now remove the primary tool from your hands.  Can you still do your job effectively?  I had two years of swapping modules, using different outlets, trying different CFL brands, coding in 2, 3, 4 retransmissions into CM11A macros, WITHOUT KNOWING A SINGLE X10 LEVEL OR NOISE LEVEL.  (Yes, I’m yelling).

Now, with the XTBM, I have identified noise sources - even noisy X10 dimmer modules - and also non-noise sources, like a switching power supply cube on a router, no noise at all.  Without a meter, starting to plug noise filters on everything gets expensive.  With a meter, I can see the noise level before, and IF needed, install a filter, and then READ the improvement in noise level.

I even found a MAJOR problem I never would have thought.  The V572 Transceiver (sensitive little bugger) in one house was actually picking up RF palmpad transmissions from the other house intended for a local RR501.  So I was getting TWO sources of the same commands and they were stepping on each other big time.  Found that one by unplugging the local RR501, sending a RF command and still seeing the AC line commands on the XTBM!

I totally forgot about the UPS stuck under the computer bench in the home office, but the XTBM identified a 70% signal loss on that AC circuit.

So today, I have noise identified and filtered or otherwise eliminated, and I can see the command levels and command validity on the XTBM.  I can see macro initiations and the response from the CM11As.  I can ping a CM11A from any point in the house(s) and read the ping response.  Everything works, and what’s more important, is I KNOW it works, not because it works “today”, but because the system parameters read by the XTBM tell me things should work.  And not by a bare margin, but reliably.

So my point here is I read all sorts of posts about X10 issues and things not working, and if you don’t have a meter, you’re swinging in the DARK.  Get one!  I’m not saying an XTBM because this is not a commercial for the XTBM (it really isn't) - but get a meter!

Here’s what I would recommend BEFORE even trying to set up some X10 devices.  Get an X10 meter, a RR501 RF Receiver/AC Transmitter, a HR12A Palmpad Remote or easier yet, a KR19A Keychain Remote Controller.  If you want to start fixing noise sources, get a few noise filters.  Get at least one XPPF to verify IF a filter will fix the noise.

Then, MAP YOUR HOUSE.  Identify each outlet / socket / switch, etc. and record what circuit it’s on, and what phase it is on.  A pain YES, but invaluable.

Now, go around to each outlet / light and measure and record noise levels.  Do this over a few days, during the day and during the night. To use the meter on a light socket, get a screw-base to double-prong adaptor.  Find a time where you can turn EVERYTHING possible OFF in the house, then turn on - one at a time - lights, TVs, stereos, phone chargers, computers, EVERYTHING - one at a time!  Look for noise reading increases on the meter, as you turn on these devices.  If a noise source is found, insert the XPPF and retest to see if the XPPF will solve the noise.  If so, record that spot as needing a filter.  Remove the XPPF and leave that device OFF if you only have one test XPPF.

After all this, you should have a good map of your noise readings, problem devices, and how many filters you’ll need to calm your noisy environment.

Now … stay with me here … plug the RR501 RF Receiver/AC Transmitter in where you would like a controller to be.  Then, go to where you’d like a controlled-module to be, be it a appliance module, or lamp module, or whatever.  If you want to replace a switch with an X10 switch, and it controls a lamp socket directly (like a ceiling light), use the before mentioned screw-base to double-prong adaptor.  The lamp socket will be close enough to the switch point for level testing.  With the meter plugged into the controlled-module location, hit the key of your RF transmitter and send a command to the RR501.  (This also assumes you’ve set to the RR501 and RF transmitter on the same HC and UC).  The RR501 will send a AC line command, and the level (and command) will be displayed by the meter in the controlled-module location.  You're not doing anything WITH the command, you’re just looking for good levels and low noise and no errors.  If one controller will talk to several controlled-module locations, take the meter to each location and repeat the test.  Use your circuit map to find where you may have multiple controlled-modules on different circuits.  I’ve seen where a table lamp (wall socket) is on a different circuit that overhead lighting in the same room.  If you want one command to operate both a table lamp and an overhead light, you may have different levels on those two different circuits - especially of they’re on different 120V phases.  Different levels are ok, as long as both are sufficient.

Do this for EVERY set of controller-location to controlled-module location.  Yeah - I know this is boring as hell.  All this and we haven’t even turned on one actual lamp!  But you’ll have MUCH more success if you pre-qualify your environment, rather that throwing controllers and modules around and wondering why there are problems.  If you find problems - identify them and FIX them - get the right noise and command levels FIRST!

I did not follow the above plan and was ready to toss the X10 stuff in the trash.  Then, I got an XTBM and followed my own advice, and now I am in far more control of my X10 environment.  Once you have pre-qualified your environment, get your controllers and modules and the number of noise filters needed and install them.  The system should work off the bat because you’ve already done your testing homework.

And if you have a present setup with problems, the knowledge you’ll gain from this board is VERY helpful, but nothing beats having an X10 meter on hand.
Logged

Brandt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 11
  • Posts: 728
  • Sorry miss, I was giving myself an oil-job.
Re: I’m an idiot … and maybe you are too!
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2010, 05:10:00 PM »

I definitely agree that people need to get a good x-10 friendly infrastructure in place before they even start: XTBM, XTB-IIR, Whole house RF receiver (w800usb or any variants), and a couple filterlincs on hand...  >!
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 305
  • Posts: 13295
Re: I’m an idiot … and maybe you are too!
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2010, 06:01:00 PM »

Good tutorial on how to get your system installed with the least amount of "This @@@ X10 doesn't work"!
Though it sounds like it will exceed the X10 10 minute plug and play.  rofl
I mapped my homes electrical wiring and what a difference it made in finding trouble makers in the home.

 #:) Helpful from me  >!
Logged

HA Dave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 175
  • Posts: 7127
Re: I’m an idiot … and maybe you are too!
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2010, 07:06:05 PM »

In reality... there are no idiots.... we all just take turns looking like idiots.

So often I read posts where someone rants about the unreliability of X10's protocol. I always try to explain that its the quality of the setup.. not the brand name that counts. Your write up is excellent! Thank You for sharing it with the community.

Others (including myself) have reviewed the XTBM Volpmeter and have been equality impressed (I even made a YouTube Video). I believe a good map of the circuits with XTBM readings should help any user put their system in tiptop shape.
Logged
Home Automation is an always changing technology

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 305
  • Posts: 13295
Re: I’m an idiot … and maybe you are too!
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2010, 07:10:26 PM »

Yes the quality of the setup does make a difference.

Even with some of the other automation protocols. I have seen Insteon users also run into noise makers and signal suckers.
Logged

pconroy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 9
  • Posts: 294
Re: I’m an idiot … and maybe you are too!
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2010, 07:26:52 PM »

Good video Dave.
Logged
 

X10.com | About X10 | X10 Security Systems | Cameras| Package Deals
© Copyright 2014-2016 X10.com All rights reserved.