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[dlim]

I've been using X10 for over 10 years in my home.

I'm working on setting up an application in a nearby business with a Wifi router mounted in the rafters about 20 ft up in the high-ceiling lobby. Occasionally, the router gets into a state where it stops responding to wireless traffic and turning the unit off and back on will reset it and get it to start working again. The problem is that the router is powered by an outlet that is not switched, so I figured a remote switch would do the trick. At this point, I don't expect there to be any other things that need to be remotely controlled, so I really don't need PLC signals - just RF control of the transceiver module will suffice.

I get the RR501 transceiver mounted on the outlet in the rafters and control it with an HR12A remote from the ground. After I got it installed, I tried a few test power cycles using the remote. What happens is that once I switch the module off, it will not respond to the command from the remote to turn on again.

I searched through the forum and I've seen a few other posts with a similar problem and the suggestion in the past has been that either the transceiver or the remote (or both) are defective. I don't believe either to be the case in this instance.

- I have tried plugging the transceiver module into a ground-level outlet at the site, and the module consistently switches both on and off from well over 50 ft across the lobby.
- With the transceiver module installed in the outlet in the rafters, the same off-but-no-on behavior happens even if the remote is within inches of the transceiver. Unplugging the transceiver module for a second and replugging it in restores it to normal operation for a few more test power cycles, but eventually it quits responding. Manually power-cycling the module via the pushbutton on the module also restores it to normal operation for a few test power cycles after which it eventually stops responding again.

Any ideas on how to solve this?

Ultimately, the solution in this case looks to be purchasing a new router that doesn't go off into the woods requiring power-cycling to reset (it's a Linksys WRT54G that's at least 5 years old), but it'd still be useful to figure out how to troubleshoot/fix the transceiver/remote issue for future applications.

[Brian H]

Is the router run from a wall wart type supply?
If it is a wall wart supply. Is it one of the newer switching types and not the old fashioned tarnsformer style?

Does it lock up if the router is not connected?
My thoughts are. Possibly the router is generating some noise when off. As there is a small current on the output for the 'is the relay on or off' sensor. Maybe it is making some power line noise that is locking it up or its power line receiver is seeing the noise and politely waiting for the line to clear.

[JeffVolp]

I tried something similar with a Linksys router here because of the same lockup problem.  I first used a TM751, but the range was awful - maybe a quarter of the normal TM751 range.  I thought it might be something being radiated by the router that was interfering with the X10 RF communication.  Powerline control to that receptacle works fine.

You might try a X10 appliance module at the router, and either use a wired controller or the RR501 located elsewhere on the same phase.

Jeff

[dave w]

How old are the RR501s?
 
FWIW

I have about five old-old-old RR501s setting in the "to be fixed" box exhibiting some of the same symptoms, especially intermitent operation of the solenoid relay , but transceiver seems OK, and multiple presses of the ON-OFF manual button results in solenoid triggering a few times and the quitting.

I believe this is caused by slow failure of caps in the units power supply circuit.

The caps I plan on "shotgunning" is the 0.22uF poly, the 2.2uF and 1uF electrolytics (C27, C25, C26 on attached .gif). If anyone wants to re-aim the shot gun, feel free. I have been putting this off for years...guess I should check Digikey tomorrow. If replacing these caps fix the problem, I will post pics and simple instructs with parts list.

[Brian H]

Dave, Before you order the parts. Your schematic looks like a real old one and does not match my date code 02F23 that has a much simpler power supply and construction. I only had to change DZ5 and C24. My PCB was quite darkened and the solder on DZ5 was getting flaky from the heat. probably near the 1 Watt rating of the diode. I hooked two 1 watt diodes in series with each having half the zenner voltage rating. So now each dissipates half the wattage. 
http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/RR501_Schematic_vH.pdf

You may want to open it up and look to see which one you have.

[dave w]

You may want to open it up and look to see which one you have.

Thanks Brian! I will do that. These RR501s are circa 1995-1997.

[Brian H]

Oh. If they are that old. Your schematic maybe the correct one.

[dlim]

The RR501 I have the problem with is newly purchased. Doesn't mean it couldn't be unusually old stock, but I don't think it's likely. Also note that the problem only manifests when the RR501 is installed in a power outlet in the rafters. It responds as expected when installed in other outlets at ground level at the client site as well as in other outlets I've tested it in elsewhere.

I'm not very familiar with the electrical distribution at the site to be sure which outlets are on the same phase in order to use PLC signalling with another appliance module. I did try the following configurations:

- RR501 in one ground-level outlet in the lobby and another appliance module in another ground-level outlet in the lobby less than 5 ft. away (should be on the same phase, if not the same circuit, but I'm not familiar enough with the building wiring to be 100% sure) - cannot get the appliance module to respond to either ON or OFF commands.
- RR501 in one ground-level outlet in the lobby and the appliance module installed in the outlet in the rafters. The conduit feeding the rafters outlet runs adjacent to the ground-level outlet with the RR501 (should be on the same phase, if not the same circuit, but I'm not familiar enough with the building wiring to be 100% sure) - also cannot get the appliance module to respond to ON or OFF commands
- RR501 in one outlet in an office and the appliance module installed in another outlet in the same office on the other side of the room - both the RR501 and the appliance module respond to ON and OFF commands. This should eliminate the possibility of the previous two test scenarios failing due to a defective RR501 or appliance module.

A new WAP that doesn't need routine power-cycling is definitely in the works, so remote power switching may end up ultimately being moot.

[dave w]

I get the RR501 transceiver mounted on the outlet in the rafters and control it with an HR12A remote from the ground. After I got it installed, I tried a few test power cycles using the remote. What happens is that once I switch the module off, it will not respond to the command from the remote to turn on again.

- With the transceiver module installed in the outlet in the rafters, the same off-but-no-on behavior happens even if the remote is within inches of the transceiver. Unplugging the transceiver module for a second and replugging it in restores it to normal operation for a few more test power cycles, but eventually it quits responding.

dlim
Did not mean to steal this thread.
If your RR501s are new, I for one have no idea what the problem could be unless it is temperature related. It isn't power line related, eliminating phase or noise problems. (your RR501 to Appliance Module problem could be noise or phase related however ). It isn't likely to be an RF range problem in the attic since OFF works, but ON does not. RF range isn't function selective. It seems to be an attic related problem so is the tempurature in the attic; hotter, or colder, than in the office where the RR501 worked?

[lodtrack]

Dlim, Pretty hard to troubleshoot this one remotely. I would suggest you go with your first thought and change out the router. If it is 5 years old, the business got it's money's worth. For $70 or so they can buy the latest office model, which will have more features than the old one. You can further utilize the X10 stuff at ground level on another application and save some ladder work?