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[Gatman]

For the past month or so I have noticed that lights are coming on at odd times for no apparent reason.  I thought maybe it was a motion sensor with batteries needing replacement, but I have eliminated that as a possibility.  Looking through these forums, I noticed that there was a software update that was not being recognized by the older 2.x version of ActiveHome.  I downloaded the AHP updater and am now updated to 3.318.  After doing the upgrade, I open AHP and just looked over the latest file and looked for any oddities.  I then open the log window to let it collect for awhile.  I went to grab a palm pad to test a couple simple on and off tests, then all of a sudden I get this spew of data in the log.

I have a 501 on G and a CM15A on I, no other house codes in use.  What would be your best guess as to what would have generated this amount of data.  Looking at the timestamps, whatever it is, it is angry    This must be why lights are coming on at random.  I do have a coupler/repeater on our dryer but that has been in place for several months.

72    10/11/2011 8:17:58 PM    Receive    M5
73    10/11/2011 8:17:58 PM    Receive    M3
74    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    G4 (Sidebar Lights)
75    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    G7 (Top Stairs)
76    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    M13
77    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    M3
78    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    G4 (Sidebar Lights)
79    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    F11
80    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    A14
81    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    G12 (Front Porch On 1)
82    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    D15
83    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    C13
84    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    G8 (Internet)
85    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    F9
86    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    A14
87    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    G10 (Bottom Stairs)
88    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    D13
89    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    C13
90    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    G8 (Internet)
91    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    G11 (Dusk/Dawn G10)
92    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    M5
93    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    M3
94    10/11/2011 8:17:59 PM    Receive    G4 (Sidebar Lights)
95    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    G1 (Hallway)
96    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    M13
97    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    M On
98    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    G4 (Sidebar Lights)
99    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    H10
100    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    C13
101    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    G10 (Bottom Stairs)
102    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    D13
103    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    C13
104    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    G8 (Internet)
105    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    G3 (Basement Stairs)
106    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    M5
107    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    M3
108    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    G4 (Sidebar Lights)
109    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    G7 (Top Stairs)
110    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    M13
111    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    M3
112    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    G4 (Sidebar Lights)
113    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    L9
114    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    O14
115    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    G10 (Bottom Stairs)
116    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    D13
117    10/11/2011 8:18:00 PM    Receive    C13
118    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    G8 (Internet)
119    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    L9
120    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    O14
121    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    G10 (Bottom Stairs)
122    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    D13
123    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    C13
124    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    G8 (Internet)
125    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    G11 (Dusk/Dawn G10)
126    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    M5
127    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    M3
128    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    G4 (Sidebar Lights)
129    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    B1 Extended Code 5f a0 -
130    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    C13
131    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    G8 (Internet)
132    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    G4 (Sidebar Lights)
133    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    M13
134    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    M3
135    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    G4 (Sidebar Lights)
136    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    P9
137    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    K14
138    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    G10 (Bottom Stairs)
139    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    D13
140    10/11/2011 8:18:01 PM    Receive    C13
141    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    G8 (Internet)
142    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    P9
143    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    K14
144    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    G10 (Bottom Stairs)
145    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    D13
146    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    C13
147    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    G8 (Internet)
148    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    G3 (Basement Stairs)
149    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    M5
150    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    M3
151    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    G4 (Sidebar Lights)
152    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    G4 (Sidebar Lights)
153    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    M13
154    10/11/2011 8:18:02 PM    Receive    M3

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Paul

[dave w]

Are the lights on the repeater flashing...are these real commands on the system or is this taking place within the CM15A?
Unplug the repeater and reset the CM15A for starters.

[Brian H]

Some repeater/couplers are known to get into X10 signal firestorms, when using a CM15A Interface.
Is the dryer outlet one a Smarthome 4826?

[dhouston]

Where are you located?

• http://groups.google.com/group/comp.home.automation/browse_thread/thread/5775956558719bbd#

[Gatman]

I am located in the city limits of Cincinnati OH.

I am using a CM15A (I), a RR501-COM (G9) and a SmartHome 4826.  I did have to almost redo all of the macros when I got the new dryer and hence the new 4826 because the coupler was in essence putting the signal on the line twice.  Smart macros that dim lights (8 minutes of no activity outside) dimmed them to zero.

When I push G4 on from the palmpad, I do see the repeater show a series of both green LEDs flash, then both red LEDs flash.  When I push I3 off, which simulates the off code from a motion sensor, that runs a script to perform about 6 steps.  When I push I3 off, the repeater does start flashing light crazy and at some point during the script, the repeater will show the left side alternate between green and red, but the right side shows mostly red.  I modified the script to put a 5 second delay between each off code to let the line go quiet before the sending the next code.  Even doing this, some of the lights are still not responding reliably.

All of the interactive lights are on G, all of the system controlled lights are on I.  Even reprogramming the CM15A to send RF codes for the 501 to do the work does not help.

Would it be better to replace the 4826 in favor of a filter rather than a repeater?  With the old dryer, things worked pretty reliably.  What is a good tool to analyze the AC line for signal noise to maybe track down a noisy device?

[Brian H]

Did you recently update AHP to the latest revision?
Are your modules soft start where they ramp On and Off or the older before soft start?
If you have the later revisions of AHP and do not have soft start modules. Make sure the modules are defined from the 'Older Before Soft Start' Tab.
I believe the Extended Messaging used by the later modules can sometime get into a signal fire storm with the CM15A and 4826.

A nice noise tester is the JV Engineering XTBM and one of the few still in production. The ELK ESM1 and Smarthome testerLinc are now discontinued.
http://jvde.us/xtb/XTBM_description.htm

[dhouston]

I am located in the city limits of Cincinnati OH.

I'm just across the river in Fort Mitchell but it looks like others are more acquainted with the likely cause of your problem. Your description made it sound similar to the one I referenced which is in the Washington, D.C. area and appears to be from external RF.

[Gatman]

All of my modules are before soft start, so I will have to look at AHP tonight and make the settings are correct.

The interesting thing is that I noticed this a few months back.  My mother called me earlier this week telling me that her lights have been coming on a no particular time.  All she has is a TM751, a couple palm pads, and a half dozen modules, lamp or appliance.  Before she called me she called Duke Energy and someone came to check it out.  I was surprised to hear that Duke might escalate the call to an engineer.  It will be interesting to see what the results are if they in fact study her power lines.

I do not know if it is just the lamp modules that are coming on, or just appliance, but for some reason, she is experiencing something similar to me just with a smaller config.

Also I do not know if this has anything to with this whole situation at my house, but I am finding my Apple TV appliance on when I know I make sure it is asleep after use.  When I find it on in the morning, that is usually when I find other lights on that I know were off when I went to bed.

Thanks to all for your knowledge and assistance.  I can't stop glancing at the beating a dead horse emoticon, sure seems appropriate dealing with this electric stuff.

[dhouston]

In my area, Duke has installed Echelon's meters which can be read remotely over the powerlines. Have these been installed where you and your mother live? I have no idea whether they may cause problems for X-10 and my 'scope is currently inoperative so I have no simple way to check. I have had two inexpensive microwaves lose their minds, flashing the display and beeping randomly and the bargain basement refrigerator in my apartment went nuts, freezing everything.

I suspected the meters but I've been dealing with some medical issues so have not concentrated on this. My new Haier microwave/convection/grill has been OK for the few months I've had it - although it did burp yesterday - apparently losing power momentarily and beeping to have the clock reset - my coffee maker on the same circuit did not lose track of the time.  

• http://www.haieramerica.com/appliances/microwaves/1-2-cu-ft-1000-watt-microwave-with-convection-and-sensor-cook-mwm12001scgss

I've been seeing periods when my lamps fail to respond (one RR501, one TM751) and very rare unexplained ons/offs but I'm in a 4-unit apartment building and have no idea what other tenants may have plugged in. I will try to remember to dig out my ESM1 tomorrow and see if there's noise on the lines the next time something unusual occurs.

[Gatman]

Would these Echelon meters be in the house directly or somewhere outside?  Duke has not been in our house for any electrical issues for quite some time.  My mother has not had any Duke related calls either.

[dhouston]

The newer Eschelon meters would have replaced the old meters and they don't look particularly hi-tech. They started replacing them here about 3 years ago. Have any Duke employees been around monthly to read the meter? They no longer need to do that here but that's not a 100% reliable tell-tale as my son lives in NW Cincinnati and while he has the new meter, the readers still do not have the handheld devices to read them remotely via RF nor are they yet setup to read them over the power-lines.

I may have pictures of the new meters I can post - I'll look.

I have refrained from posting about this as I did not want to raise false alarms until I had a chance to look at the noise levels and 'scope traces. So, don't panic - but an engineer coming to your mother's house may indicate they are aware of something. I had the email address of the local Duke engineer - if I can find that I may ask him if there's any issue but only after I have gathered more evidence. I vaguely recall them testing here for a lengthy period before proceeding with further installations.

My 'scope is actually an ISA card in a very old PC running Windows 98. I have not had it setup for nearly two years but did recently buy a new AGP video card that should let me use it with one of my LCD monitors. I just haven't been able to get to it, yet.

[Gatman]

Cinergy used to come in the house once a month but that has been several years ago now, then we had a phone line thing, but that is gone now too.  I could be confusing that with the water meter though.  My x-10 installation has been great for a few years, just lately some erratic things are happening.  I thought maybe I plugged something in like a battery charger in the garage, forgot about it, but I have gone around the house looking for stuff to unplug for periods of time trying to isolate the symptom.  Unfortunately the symptoms are unpredictable and still present.  I have to force turn off the front porch and back patio lights so they don't get turned on by the Poltergeist and be shining bright all day long.  I even set up some timed scripts to run during the day to turn off the lights even if they are off already, in case I forget to flip the switch on the wall switch module.

I am interested to hear what Duke says about my mom's lines, it may be something that needs further treatment to get under control.  Mt. Airy.

[Dan Lawrence]

Not really X10 related, but I live in Baltimore and BGE (Baltimore Gas & Electric) has totally dispensed with meter readers several years ago, they now read both the electric and gas meters remotely without replacing either one (both meters are inside the house) and nobody from BGE has EVER asked for access to change them.

[JeffreyB]

Wow, Cincinnati, Ft. Mitchell...  I'm in the burbs of Cincinnati also.  Same deal, Echelon meter installed, all hell breaks loose.  I hope we have an answer for this because you know Duke sure as hell isn't going to be helpful!

Jeff

[Knightrider]

I'm only 60 miles from Cincy.