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[nitecapt]

I moved into a house that has some x10 switches to control lighting. These are 25 years old or so and while I am generally familiar with electrical stuff, I am not familiar with X10.

I cannot seem to post photos to this site (perhaps because I am new?)  but I will try my best to describe my situation. On one wall in my living room, there is a 4 toggle Leviton switch sitting in a single gang box. The toggles are small and rock horizontally. The top two control two sets of 110v track lights in the living room. There are 3 par30 lights in each track (this will be important later).

Across the room are two rectangular paddle switches in a two gang box. These also control the same lights which can be toggled from either location (like a 3 way).

I called Leviton and was told that there was no way to modify or change any of these components to allow me to dim the track lights and I should switch to another system of theirs.

I called another company and they said that all I had to do was replace the paddle switches with dimmer switches WS12A but that they require a minimum of 40 watts so if I replace my par 30 incandescent with LED, it would appear that this won’t work either. Further, my guess is that the 4 toggle switch is the supply switch for line voltage to the lights (but I may be wrong).

So…here are my questions:

1.   Can anyone tell me which of these switches are likely the switches that actually supply power to the lights? (the 4 toggle or the paddle)
2.   Can  anyone suggest a mod that will allow me to dim the lights? (I don’t really ever have a need to touch the 4 toggle switch)
3   Is it really as simple as changing the paddle switches?
4   If all his cannot be done, can anyone recommend an alternative system that can easily replace this one (like zwave or zeebee)
5   Finally, will any mods suggested be able to handle under 40 watts when I install led’s?

Was that a mouthful?
Can anyone help?
Best regards
Ray

[Brian H]

The four button Leviton. Sounds like a Keypad Controller. It has no loads on it and only sends X10 commands to other devices like the switches on the other side of the room. When the buttons are pushed. Controlling the ones on the other side of the room.
They also had different interchangeable face plates. Sounds like your may control four devices . If one of the button sets is not labeled Bright and Dim.

1 The Leviton four button set controlled will not be powring the lights. The switches on the other side of the room are.
Do the present ones dim the lights or just On and Off? May make a clunking noise when turned On or Off?
Two wire dimmers like the WS12A. Need to steal power through the load and only work with incandescent loads.
Try putting the original loads back and see if the WS12As work.

4 Most other protocol modules require a real Neutral power connection along with the Load and Line connections. So if all your switch boxes don't have a neutral power connection. You choices maybe limited.

[nitecapt]

Oh yes...there is a major clunking sound when the paddles are toggled. So, therefore I can't use LED's if I replace the paddle switches? If that's teh case, I might as well just replace the paddle switches with line voltage none x10 dimmers that work with LED's and forget the 4 toggle switch completely...right?

[Brian H]

Correct clunking means you have a relay type switch and it will safely turn On and Off LED lights. They will not dim them.

Since the relay style X10 and Leviton modules need a Neutral power connection. That just answered part of my previous post.

If there is a Neutral Power Connection in the switches boxes. There maybe some dimmable type switches that do not steal power through the load and can dim LED bulbs specified as dimmable. You still can not safely dim a LED not made for dimming.

[Brian H]

Saw your message in the Smarthome Forums.
If you decide to go to a different protocol module. Most of the Insteon Line can have an X10 address added to them and they do make three wire dimmers. You could also replace the Leviton four button X10 controller with an Insteon KeypadLinc Dimmer and then drop X10 completely.
You just have to verify the LEDs you choose, are made to be dimmed.

[nitecapt]

Correct clunking means you have a relay type switch and it will safely turn On and Off LED lights. They will not dim them.

Since the relay style X10 and Leviton modules need a Neutral power connection. That just answered part of my previous post.

If there is a Neutral Power Connection in the switches boxes. There maybe some dimmable type switches that do not steal power through the load and can dim LED bulbs specified as dimmable. You still can not safely dim a LED not made for dimming.

I opened the box. Indeed the paddle switches control the lights. They have a load at one end, line at the other and two neutrals (white) right next to each other in the middle. I've decided to replace these two paddles with regular Lutron CFL/LED capable dimmers and forego any automation. I would assume that the two neutrals just get tied together? Correct?

[Brian H]

On the rear of the old switches. Is there a label marking the terminals?
I have an X10Pro XPS3 and it has a Line, Load, Neutral and Control set of screw terminals.
If both white wires are in the set of screw terminals marked Neutral. Yes just tie them together with the Neutral from the Lutron's.

[nitecapt]

Yup...that worked but I cannot believe how this house was wired. There were two separate circuits in one box so when I hit the breaker for for the lights, thinking both sets were on the same circuit I was VERY surprised to find another still energized circuit in the box!

[Brian H]

Oh I hate those kinds of surprises.
I did a 100% wiring mapping of my home. As automation communications issues and be sorted out better.

As for two circuits in one rooms electrical box. That way if one breaker trips the room would not go totally dark.

[JeffVolp]

Yup...that worked but I cannot believe how this house was wired. There were two separate circuits in one box so when I hit the breaker for for the lights, thinking both sets were on the same circuit I was VERY surprised to find another still energized circuit in the box!

That is not unusual - particularly on 3-way lighting circuits.

Jeff