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[CBSanford]

Back to my Leviton HCC4D mess. I got it to work with an old X10 switch. I ordered a WS13 switch. I am installing it after the gfci breaker that provides power to the pool light. The switch gets its neutral from a shared neutral in the switch box. And, there aint no easy way to provide the "protected" neutral to the box. When i tie the hot to the switched leg, the light goes on just fine. If I use the old X10 switch, it runs fine. The gfci blows immediately when the neutral is connected...

I have a couple of alternatives that I can think of: 1) Run a hot from the switch box through the WS13, abandon the gfci breaker, and wire the hot and neutral through a gfci receptacle to the pool light. In other words, feed through the switch before providing gfci protection. 2) Find a Decora style X10 switch that does not use a neutral. 3) Find old, standard X10 switches and use non-Decora switches throughout.

Any insight?

[dave w]

I have had GFI and X10 conflicts also, which I never overcame. If you can get it to work putting the GFI on the output of the switch, I would go that direction.

[JeffVolp]

A GFI requires a close match between currents flowing in the hot and neutral leads.  It should trip if there is any path for the current not to be returned through neutral.  That is what the ground fault means - a direct path to ground.  I don't see why connecting hot and neutral would cause the GFI to trip unless there is some other path to ground.

We have GFIs and the newer AFCIs at our home.  All our Leviton switches have neutral returns, and none have ever caused a problem on any of the protected circuits.  However, I do trip the AFCI that feeds my lab whenever I accidentally get even a high resistance path to ground.

Jeff

[CBSanford]

Thanks, dave w and JeffVolp. That's another route that I considered--providing an isolated neutral. I think I will do that. Unfortunately for me, I ran everything in conduit from the panel to a pull can, and from the pull can to the individual points of use in Romex. I spent 4.5 hours making that darn can. Now, I will have to undo everything, pull the wires from the conduit, add one white wire, re-pull everything, and re-make the can... And, this is with no guarantee that it will solve my problem! Today, I temporarily installed an old X10 that has no neutral, and everything is working--but the old X10 isn't styled right...

The biggest problem with doing X10 stuff is that there are so many creepy little problems, and no one will pay you to fix them. I put his in wrong, and I will have to fix it for free. And, if this "fix" doesn't work, I will have to fix it some other way for free.

Aargh! It just occurred to me that I used a single Romex as a switch loop into the switch box. That's why I had to use the neutral for the switch from another branch circuit. I guess I could tape the ground wire and use that as the neutral for the switch...

[JeffVolp]

Aargh! It just occurred to me that I used a single Romex as a switch loop into the switch box. That's why I had to use the neutral for the switch from another branch circuit. I guess I could tape the ground wire and use that as the neutral for the switch...

If I understand you right, that would not work unless you carried that through as a neutral all the way to the GFI.  I assume using the ground wire like that would not be code compliant.  If just using the ground as a neutral for the X10 switch, the GFI would still trip as that current would not go through the GFI to balance the current in the hot lead.

Jeff

[CBSanford]

You guys are really super! I appreciate your advice and support. But, I am ready to tell the owner to hire someone who knows what he is doing. I just spent another two hours researching active repeaters, passive couplers, plug-in amplifiers.. I need to rent a meter (no way I am buying one for just one or two jobs). And, there is little hope that I will be able to read the meter once I get it! I'm just an old wire-yanking electrician.

I put the system back together. I am using an old WS467 switch that doesn't blow the neutral on the gfi breaker for the pool light. The owner has said that we can just put everything on X10 "toggle" switches, but he prefers that we find "Decora" styled ones. So, question #1: Is there an X10 wall switch in Decora style that does not use a neutral? If so, what is it? WS12A? WS13A?

Next problem... The switches only work occasionally. Obviously, the signal is too weak, or there is too much electronic noise, to work reliably. Question #2: What is going to be my best "bang for the buck" option?

These switches are in a cabana, which is fed by a sub-panel that has lots of pool equipment loads. The Leviton HCC4D controller is in the kitchen, which is fed through another sub-panel.

I have a passive phase coupler in my home that i am going to yank out of my panel and try out at the client's house (I guess I'll put it in the main panel). I had some problems at my home decades ago that I solved with a coupler. Everything at my place works.

[Brian H]

WS12A is a two wire dimmer type. Just like the WS467. Both are strictly for use with incandescent light bulbs. As they steal power through the load.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/XPD3

The WS13A is a relay type. On and Off and uses a Neutral connection.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/WS13A

WS14 is a companion switch that can be used in a three way setup to control a WS12A or WS13A.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/WS14A