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[just4fn]

My cm115a is upstairs and my porch lights are dowstairs and are programmed to turn on at dusk and off at dawn. If the phase coupler is installed they wont turn on. I thought a phase coupler would help and in no way would hurt. As soon as I disconnect the coupler they work fine. Any thoughts?

PS. I am using one of those capacitor looking phase couplers on 2 circuit breakers

Thanks, Doug

[Dan Lawrence]

Firstly, phase couplers are never installed to circut breakers.  If capacitors, they are installed in the connection box for an electric stove or a 220 air conditioner.

Move yours from the breakers immedialtely!!!  That's the cause of the problem.

[dave w]

Dan,

" Firstly, phase couplers are never installed to circut breakers."

What??? Since when?

[Brian H]

Hard Wired Couplers and Repeaters by code should have a set of breakers all to theirselves. Some folks just put them on existing breakers but the instructions for all the wired in ones show a set of breakers just for the device. One exception I have seen is one of the ACT ones is rated for adding to an existing 220 box.

A plain AC Cap that most may mount in the breaker box will work fine, but could be a code thing or safety thing.

[roger1818]

Firstly, phase couplers are never installed to circut breakers.  If capacitors, they are installed in the connection box for an electric stove or a 220 air conditioner.

Move yours from the breakers immedialtely!!!  That's the cause of the problem.

This is incorrect!  The best phase couplers are hard wired to a dedicated pair of circuit breakers.  Properly it should be installed in its own electrical box close to the circuit breaker panel.  SmartHome does make some plug-in phase couplers and coupler/repeaters that are easier to use, but they aren't as good as hard wired ones.  For more information on this see my tutorial on phase coupling.

[roger1818]

My cm115a is upstairs and my porch lights are downstairs and are programmed to turn on at dusk and off at dawn. If the phase coupler is installed they wont turn on. I thought a phase coupler would help and in no way would hurt. As soon as I disconnect the coupler they work fine. Any thoughts?

PS. I am using one of those capacitor looking phase couplers on 2 circuit breakers

Using a capacitor as a phase coupler will couple both the X10 signal and powerline noise.  So if you have something on one phase which is generating a lot of noise, the capacitor can actually create problems by allowing that noise to be distributed throughout the house. 

Proper passive phase couplers will try to filter out the noise and prevent it from being coupled.  However, if the noise it too close in frequency to the X10 signal it won't be filtered and will still be coupled.

Since Coupler/Repeaters only repeat valid X10 commands on the other phase, it won't couple any of the noise to the other phase.

Optimally you need to find the source of this noise and install a noise filter on it.  You have a head start and know which phase it is on.

[just4fn]

Optimally you need to find the source of this noise and install a noise filter on it.  You have a head start and know which phase it is on. 
Posted on: Today at 07:06:11 AMPosted by: roger1818 

How do I know what phase it is on? I do have the coupler on two dedicated circuit breakers just FYI.  Isn't the coupler coupling both A and
B phases?

I have ordered a hard wired phase coupler. I will install that and see if it helps. I have other issues around the house. IE In one bedroom if the cm115a is plugged in the macros don't work downstairs on the sockets but the wall switch's work. This is the reason for the coupler. I can get around it but would like it to work.

Thanks for the help, Doug

[dave w]

just4fn
As roger pointed out, a simple capacitor coupler will couple noise as well as X10 signals. Maybe that was your problem (noise on one phase now getting coupled to the other phase thru the cap). Since a typical "hard wired phase coupler" does have some band pass filtering, it may be your solution. A coupler repeater, since it amplifies the signal on both phases would be even better regardless of your home size.

Contrary to previous advce, you SHOULD install any coupling device whether active or passive, in your distribution panel, on dedicated circuit breakers . This puts it "the shortest distance between any two points", and also protects against fire, in the event the coupler fails and shorts across the 240V line.

[roger1818]

How do I know what phase it is on? I do have the coupler on two dedicated circuit breakers just FYI.

It is on the opposite phase as the porch lights since if the capacitor is removed (thus isolating the noise to one phase) they start to work.

Isn't the coupler coupling both A and B phases?

Yes it is coupling both phases.

[roger1818]

Contrary to previous advce, you SHOULD install any coupling device whether active or passive, in your distribution panel, on dedicated circuit breakers .

Just don't let an electrical inspector see it there.

This puts it "the shortest distance between any two points",

I agree that it should optimally be on dedicated breakers and that the shorter the distance between the phase coupler and the bus bar in the panel the better, but a one or two feet of 14 gauge wire won't significantly increase the distance between two points and shouldn't significantly decrease the signal straight.

and also protects against fire, in the event the coupler fails and shorts across the 240V line.

On this point I disagree for two reasons:

• Commercial phase couplers have been certified to be safe and have a fuse to protect against fire in the event of a short circuit (the breakers also provide protection against this)
• It is actually safer inside a separate electrical box than it is inside the panel.  If (and that is a big if) something catastrophic should happen, the damage would be contained within the box and limited to the coupler and the wires feeding it, but inside the panel you could fry the entire panel.

I will stand by my words, "Properly it should be installed in its own electrical box close to the circuit breaker panel."

[dave w]

Roger,
I was not clear in the comment "shortest distance between two points". What I ment was installing coupler at (but not necessarly in) the breaker panel is prefered over installing at dryer, HVAC, or water heater, etc hook-ups. I should have explained better. 

I have my ACT coupler/amp installed at a dryer hook-up, thru two five amp fuses. I can measure a signal strength difference (stronger) if I connect the repeater at the main panel. However main panel is out in garage. The repeater has LED status indicators that I did not want to go all the way out in garage to check periodically. The dryer hook up is in the house. Since I did not install in or near the panel, the signal must travel on the originating phase all the way to the panel, then all the way to the dryer hook-up where it is finally coupled to the other phase, and then all the way back.

The extra path drops length attenuatues the signal by a couple of volts.

[Mystyx]

just4fn...

How do I know what phase it is on? I do have the coupler on two dedicated circuit breakers just FYI.

If your CM15A is on one phase and you add a Cap the noise is probably on the opposite phase. when you add the cap it connects the noise to the CM15A ( probably )
each phase isn't just one side(column) of the breaker panel !!

I have other issues around the house. IE In one bedroom if the cm115a is plugged in the macros don't work downstairs on the sockets but the wall switch's work. This is the reason for the coupler.

If your Lights work but the plug doesn't, its because your lights are on a separate circuit breaker then the plug ins. You really should go around the house and mark every plug and light and map them to the circuit breakers so you know what is on what breaker. that will tell you what appliances are connected together. TVs, PCs, motors, etc should be filtered as they create noise. also lights particularly halogen or ones with ballasts create noise in your power lines.

[colsar]

..snip... For more information on this see my tutorial on phase coupling.

Roger, I have 2 - 200 amp breaker boxes.  I understand how to couple the phases within each panel, can I couple the 2 panels together?

Thanks, Joe.

[roger1818]

Roger, I have 2 - 200 amp breaker boxes.  I understand how to couple the phases within each panel, can I couple the 2 panels together?

Are the 2 breaker boxes on separate transformers?  If so, you can put a special coupler/repeater (like either the ACT CR234 or CR134) in each of the panels that has a special connection for linking them together.  If they are on the same transformer things get a bit more difficult as the signal could ping-pong back and forth between the two coupler/repeaters.  For more information see Phil Kingery's PCC Technical Tips (especially no 20 though you might want to read nos. 3, 4 and 5 to understand the basics).  I am not an expert on complex situations like this, but I will try to help you out as best as I can.

[colsar]

Are the 2 breaker boxes on separate transformers?  If so, you can put a special coupler/repeater (like either the ACT CR234 or CR134) in each of the panels that has a special connection for linking them together.  If they are on the same transformer things get a bit more difficult as the signal could ping-pong back and forth between the two coupler/repeaters.  For more information see Phil Kingery's PCC Technical Tips (especially no 20 though you might want to read nos. 3, 4 and 5 to understand the basics).  I am not an expert on complex situations like this, but I will try to help you out as best as I can.

I will have to verify, but I am pretty sure I am just on one transformer.  I will read the tip you posted.  Thanks, Joe.