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[crussell]

I am new to X10, so please stay with me if I asking or trying something that is old news.  I have scoured the posts looking for solutions and have found none.

Here is what I have going on.  I like in an attached town home (I am the first unit with 6 units in the row) and I am furthest from the main feeding the building.  Total square footage of the home is around 1300.  Upstairs where the bedrooms are, I have 4 circuits (spanning both A and B legs) and the destinations are scattered all over the place.  The outlets in my master bedroom are on 3 of the four circuits; the whole upstairs (total 2 bedrooms, the hall way, bathroom and small sitting area) are all discombobulated.  For example, I found the only wall outlet that is on the same circuit as all the lighting upstairs is a single outlet in my daughters room.  The outlet beside my bed (for the night lamp) is tied to an outlet in the hallway and and in the bathroom, and the outlet in the sitting area, (I think) is tied to the garage)...

OK, with that explained, here is what I have and what I am trying to do.  I have 1 in wall dimmer switch that I want to use for the light in the master bedroom, 2 wireless keypads and 2 transceivers (picked up the clearance sale at Radio shack).  Also a phase coupler installed across the breakers.

Problem: What I have found that when using a transceiver on the outlet at the bed (to turn the night lamp on/off), I am not able to turn off the wall switch (remember that they are one 2 different circuits, but both on the A phase leg).  However if I plug in the transceiver to the outlet in my daughters room, I can control the light switch.

Here is my solution (and it works) but I am afraid there may be problems later that I am unaware of....
What I did was take the second transceiver and set it to the same house code as the first transceiver.  I made sure that it was last in an ON state before unplugging it from the wall and then I opened it up and cut (and tapped off) the wire for the relay.  This latched it in an always on position, or basically made it a dumb box.  I then put the modified box in my daughters room on the outlet that was on the same circuit as the light, and put the first transceiver back on the night stand light in the master bedroom.

So now I have 2 transceivers set to the same house code, so one works locally in the master bedroom, the second in my daughters room 'relays' the signals to the wall switch and everything is working great.

Are there any drawbacks to doing it like this?  Will I have problems with echoed signals if I ever bring ActiveHome online?  And does anyone have any idea why signals aren't getting from one circuit to another, even on the same phase?

A few other quick notes that may help if anyone has any ideas.  A- all the circuit breakers in out box are duals (i.e. 2 15amp slim circuits on a single breaker), B- I can hit any outlet or wall switch downstairs or in the garage (which is detached about 20ft from the house) from any other outlet downstairs and lastly C- There is nothing else plugged in upstairs except the lights (pulled the tv and everything else for testing).

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Brian H]

I see you have read many of the forum topics. Did you happen to also read the Sticky Messages on Troubleshooting?
You may have a noise maker that is masking the signals or signal suckers that absorb the x10 signals.
You may want to try selectively unplugging things like TVs; Computers and any electronic gadgets, then retesting for better coverage.
If you find a device or devices that are killing the X10 signals. An X10 type line filter on the device may help.
Two transceivers on the same house code could be a problem; if they both receive the same remote command and transmit on each others signals. I don't know the RS model transceiver you have, but if it is the same as the TM751 it has no powerline receiver and will not check for signals before sending. This depends on the exact setup in question as some here use many transceivers with no problems while others do.
OH Regular Incadescent lights in the fixtures in question?

[steven r]

...The outlets in my master bedroom are on 3 of the four circuits; the whole upstairs (total 2 bedrooms, the hall way, bathroom and small sitting area) are all discombobulated....

I've often wondered if there wasn't a hidden wiring code that requires scrambling things around. Perhaps a job security move on the part of the electricians. 

...Here is my solution (and it works) but I am afraid there may be problems later that I am unaware of....

As Brian H so clearly explained, "Two transceivers on the same house code could be a problem...". The overlapping signal will likely come back to haunt you. It's just a matter of time.

[steven r]

I see you have read many of the forum topics....

I think he wins the most researched 1st poster award.

[crussell]

Thanks for the feedback guys.  Brian, as I said in my initial post, I have unplugged everything looking for something generating noise on the line, but still had the same problem.

The transceivers are 2 different types, the one I am using at the master bedroom night lamp is a Radio Shack model (couldn't beat the $2.97 price) and the one I diabled the relay on is an RCA that came with their old active home kit (the one X-10 was selling for 10 bucks a few weeks back).

I am using a standard 100w incandescent in the overhead lamp that is tied to the wall swith; the table lamp on the night stand is a CFL (from what I've read this should be OK with the appliance module in the transceiver since it is non-dimming(?))

One other thing I did last night after posting was try a small plug in controller (antoher $3 Radio Shack part) and it will not control the wall switch if I plug it into any outlet in the house other than the one in my daughters bedroom.

I really am stumped.  I have no problems going cross phase anywhere else in the house except upstairs, and these two breakers (the one in my daughters room/overhead lights and the one by the bed are not even cross phase, they are on the same phase, adjacent to each other in the breaker box.

Could it have something to do with the double breakers?

thanks

[crussell]

Quick update:
After doing some more digging trying to figure out where the signal was getting dropped, I found an old power strip (not sure if it has surge on it or not, it's that old) behind the desk in my daughters room.  There was nothing plugged into it, but it was on.  This outlet appears was also on the same circuit as the other I had treid in my daughters room as well as the wall plate for the MB light switch.  So I tried unpluging the strip from the wall and guess what?   The wall switch started responding to lights on commands (and also dim-up turns it on full) from the transceiver on the other circuit, BUT it will not respond to off or dim-down commands.

I am going to try the other RCA transceiver (the one I diabled the relay on) and see if I can get it to respond to the off from that transceiver.

Thanks for the help with this guys and I'll post if I find a final resolution.

cdr

[Brian H]

Glad you found the hidden signal sucker and hope the new tests are more reliable

[steven r]

...I found an old power strip (not sure if it has surge on it or not, it's that old)...

All but the cheapest ones nowadays claim some form of "surge" protection. (It's cheap advertising.) Everyone these days knows they need surge protection. (Not everyone knows they need brownout protection but that's another soap box of mine.) That little bit of "surge protection", even if it's not enough to do any good from a surge point of view, can be enough to screw up an X10 signal sometimes. While not impossible, it's becoming harder and harder to find a non surge protection strip.

As a general rule, from a surge protection point of view, anything rated less than 1000 joules is worthless for surge protection. It only takes 1 MOV across the live and neutral line to call something a surge protector. The better surge protectors use more MOVs and filtering. It's the across the board filtering that tends to suck the X10 signal. Surge strips don't last forever, either. Most will commit suicide in an extreme situation to protect equipment. The better ones will indicate a failure. The cheaper ones will continue to act as a power strip even after the surge protection fails. This leaves the user with a false since of security.

I use several UPS units around the house. I've been lucky so far but many people have reported them interfering with the X10 signal also.

You never know what little thing can be a signal stealer. I was leaving the house the other day and realized that my exit macro wasn't working. I finally found the thief. It was one of those portable emergency car jumper/air pump/etc batteries that I happened to be charging. Though not in the same room as the macro sensor, it just happened to be on the same circuit .

I've been thinking it's time I picked up a few filters. 

[KDR]

I've often wondered if there wasn't a hidden wiring code that requires scrambling things around. Perhaps a job security move on the part of the electricians. 

I think what is done are circuits are stagered so that if theres a problem not everything is dead. If the light fixture goes bad you still have working outlets close by. If an outlet needs replaced then you still have access close by to working ones. Also sometimes they get really staggered around if you are trying to load balance both phases to reduce current flow on the neutral wire.   The second reason should be less of an issue since code now requires the neutral feeder be sized the same as the load feeder. (been this way for some time now.)