AM486 not completely off when it should. (Solved)

[jcgv]

This Appliance Module when tuned off allows some current and voltage to flow throughout it. I measured voltage with no appliance connected (Using a Floke 79 multimeter wih less than 0.01% inacuracy) and when the device was off the voltage was 108 Volts.

I got a TV AC adapter fried some time ago and now I got a bell fried too. Recently I did a test by connecting a 12V adapter with a siren connected to it and I can hear some low volume sound in the siren. I guess this low voltage has damages my previous connected devices.

Ã,¿What could X10 experts say about this issue?, Ã,¿Is really safe to connect appliances to this AM486 X10 module?

Respectfully,

Juan C.

[Brian H]

The appliance module has a Local Control Sensing Circuit in it and there is always some small current flowing out of it. With only the high impedance meter on the output it is possible it would read near line voltage. With a normal load it would be much lower.
There are mods [warantee voided] to stop this current. Another way is put a power tap on the output so you can put the load you want to control and a 7 watt incandescent night light on the same controlled outlet.

[jcgv]

Thank you Brian for your reply.

- Ã,¿Where could I find these mods?

- Ã,¿Would you say this module should not be user with devices now draining much current from the module?

- If this is not the correct module, Ã,¿Which one should I use?

Juan C.

[Brian H]

I have done an unscientific test of the sensing current and it is only around 2 ma DC if memory serves me. That is not much current. Lamp modules also have this current.
The appliance modules are the best for the devices you listed as dimming modules can do damage if dimmed or the controlled device doesn't like the modified wave the triac [electronic dimming component].
One place for mods:
http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm
If you are not electronically and mechanically inclined. You may not want to do such things. Warranty is gone also.
There are 2 mods for the Appliance Modules. One [the jumper] disables the local control working, but not the actual current on the outlet.
The other disables the current [diode cut] but sometimes toggling the local on off switch still turns on the module.
I have done both in the same module for disabling current and control turns on the device.

[jcgv]

Brian, thank you for your reply.

Well, I took and old Radio Shack Appliance Module Cat No 61-2681B (the same AM486 with a different brand) and cut the diode as explained in Ido Bartana's "Defeating local current sensing" section for Appliance Module and it solve the problem. Now my siren doesn't sound when the mmodule is off.

In newer modules the "Disabling local control on the newer appliance module" procedure must be used.

Thank you again and thanks to Ido Bartana for his excellent site.

Juan C.

[Brian H]

You are welcome.
Glad you have it fixed.

[oldbill70]

In the interest of efficiency and convenience I tried using an AM486 to control a small vacuum used as a dust collector for a miter saw. It worked but not like I expected. It turned the unit on and off but it didn't stay off. It came right back on within a few seconds of being turned off and it stayed on until unplugged. It did not come on when first connected. The "collector" is a DeWalt DC500 mini-vac with stated power requirements of 2.6 Amps DC at 12-18 Volts. It does not state the AC load but a simple calculation reveals a power rating of around 50 watts. Since it can run on either AC or DC, I can reasonably assume an internal rectifier circuit which perhaps has a transformer input although at these power levels it could easily be solid state. This does not seem like proper behavior for the AM486 and I've observed similar behavior on lamp modules such as LM485. I used the lamp module to control a string of LED Christmas lights managed by AHP. It was all fine except that "off" turned out to be "dim slightly." The string of lights was wired in such a way that no distinct power conversion was done. The series-connected LEDs were sized by count and load to present a 115VAC load, probably a very high impedance load, at the plug.

Neither of these modules performed acceptably for my applications nor would they pass any acceptance test for leakage current I've seen in more than 40 years of electrical and electronic experience. Is there a solution to these problems? I don't know but a place to start is tighter specs and better production control.

I'm not impressed by the current state of affairs.

Bill Babb
IBM Retiree
Twitter: Oldbill70

[Brian H]

The current is normal on those modules. Older ones had both Local Control Sensing and on or off sensing. The newer appliance modules have just the on or off sensing.
Other brand modules like Smarthome's Insteon line also have a small sensing current.
Must be below an allowable rating as all of them have UL or ETL approval.

Sometimes you can swamp the current with a small night light bulb on the output along with the load you are controlling.
In your mini-vac case. It sounds like there was an inductive spike that triggered it back on.

If you are interested there are some schematics of the older modules here.
http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm

[Jason B]

Jason B, on 24 Sept 2013 - 16:21, said:

I made a video to show what's going on. And here is work around with that RF adapter I was telling you about and having to plug something else into the outlet. This would also work for those that have small leds plugged in that still light up.

Here the x10 outlet is OFF, and you can see when the 3 outlet surge protector is plugged in, the red led light, stays ON. When i add in the night light, it then senses the outlet if off, then the RF device works. I reallly would like a way around doing all this. There has to be something simplier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTI9TvhzXNQ

Also, now that sr227 can't even fit back into the wall with all the wires.



Ok, I'm trying to do this SAME thing again, but with one of othese, instead of replacing the outlet:



I'm a little confused on how to get this to work again, and would cutting the jumper make this work?

http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Local_Control_for_Lamp_And_Appliance_Modules

http://www.x10community.com/marko/2006/06/disabling_the_local_control_fe.html

[Brian H]

If the AM486 is new enough to be sold as CFL Friendly. There is no jumper or diode to cut. The only very small current on the output is for sensing if it is On or Off. If you disable it. The mechanical ratchet switch will pulse a few time trying to change its output.

There where two local control sensing modifications for the older hardware. The jumper only stops the module from falsely going back ON but not remove the sensing current. There was a diode you also had to cut to disable the local control current. The small am I on or off sensing current will still be there.
If a night light bulb is too large to allow proper use due to space. Some have used a resistor inside a plug to squash the current.

[Jason B]

Are you BLH from the cocoontech forums also?

[Brian H]

Yes I am BLH on a few forums.
Brian H. Here and a few others. Tuicemen's, JV Digital Engineering, Universal Designs.

[Jason B]

I don't know if this is the newer module, but it looks like there's a date code on this, I bought it used. So if we can find the diode to cut, that would do the same thing as the nightlight, or the resister?

[racerfern]

That's about as old as they come. Early 2005.

[Jason B]

Thanks. I think I found the diode fix??? And this will do same thing as the night light or resistor, correct?

http://www.laureanno.com/x10-mod3.html