Dusk times off --- way off

[Walt2]

I am having a problem with timer events which trigger at dusk.  Since about 4/15, they aren't triggering; at least not at the right time.

I run my CM15A disconnected from my PC.  The last time they were connected, was back on 4/2 when I had to correct the CM15A's internal TOD when it wrongly adjusted due to the old DST rules.  My timer events continued to work fine after that, so I don't think it is a DST related issue (though, maybe it is?).

I looked at the Dusk/Dawn table in AHP, and Dusk time is shown as (around) 19:45 (7:45pm).  As I mentioned, 7:45pm comes and goes, and my timer events don't trigger.  They don't trigger at 8:45pm either (again adding evidence that it is not directly DST related).

BTW, all my "exact time" timer events, ones with a specific set time, work just fine.  They trigger right on schedule.

I tried the unplug, remove the batteries, wait, put all back together, clear memory, re-download.  Didn't help.

The problem is that I only get to debug once per night; at dusk.  So, this is taking a few days to try all the options.  I do plan on tonight, to leave the CM15A connected up to my PC, and have the Activity Monitor running through out the evening and night.  I have a hunch right now, that Dusk is happening way late; at around 10:45pm (22:45).  That's three hours late.  I will know this for sure (or not) tomorrow.

Anyway, is anyone else seeing Dusk times way off??   

[Dan Lawrence]

Since the CM15A is disconnected from the PC, that's why the dusk-dawn times are wrong.  The ONLY way to make sure that times are correct is to have the CM15A connected to the PC 24/7.

[Oldtimer]

Since the CM15A is disconnected from the PC, that's why the dusk-dawn times are wrong.  The ONLY way to make sure that times are correct is to have the CM15A connected to the PC 24/7.

If Dan's suggestion works then there may be something else wrong.  If it doesn't check these possibilities out:

First note that there is a separate "Update Inerface" command in the Hardware Interface Configuration for the Dawn/Dusk Resolution setting.

From what you describe the next two items may not apply, but I wanted to include them just in case:

Second, check your time zone setting in Windows.  It may have gotten bolixed up with the change in DST.

Third, Check your system clock.  It too could have gotten out of wack in the process of adjusting for the change in DST.

Although my computer is connected to the CM15A all the time, I don't keep AHP running all the time and the CM15A clock drift over a period of many weeks is always much less than a minute.

That you posted your question with all your X10 experience is a credit to the quality of your other postings.  It shows that you know the difference between what you do know and what you don't know.  It takes courage to do it. 

[Walt2]

Since the CM15A is disconnected from the PC, that's why the dusk-dawn times are wrong.  The ONLY way to make sure that times are correct is to have the CM15A connected to the PC 24/7.

That's not what is suppose to be.   The table of Dusk/Dawn times, in the hardware configuration window,  are suppose to be downloaded, no?   

I mean, AHP even reports the amount of CM15A memory used by the Dusk/Dawn table.

[Walt2]

The problem is that I only get to debug once per night; at dusk.  So, this is taking a few days to try all the options.  I do plan on tonight, to leave the CM15A connected up to my PC, and have the Activity Monitor running through out the evening and night.  I have a hunch right now, that Dusk is happening way late; at around 10:45pm (22:45).  That's three hours late.  I will know this for sure (or not) tomorrow.

Well, I kept the CM15A connected up to my PC all yesterday evening, with the Activity Monitor running.

Just to do a minor correction, the exact time listed in the Hardware Configuration's Dusk/Dawn table, for the period starting 4/15, is 19:48, which is 7:48pm.  I had wrote 19:45 in my original posting above, where I was simply going by (my old) memory.

The Activity Monitor showed, as did my visual checking, that the two Timer Events triggered at 21:48, exactly two hours late.

Since I never had this problem until 4/15, I am going to guess that the downloaded Dusk/Dawn table doesn't match the one display in the Hardware Configuration's Dusk/Dawn table, and the the problem is limited (I hope) just to the period starting 4/15.

BTW, yes my PC time is correct.  It is periodically, and automatically, sync'ed to one of the Navy's atomic clocks.  And, the CM15A has the same time too.  As I mentioned, my CM15A still executes all the time-specific events right on schedule (the problem is limited to just Dusk).

I guess this should go under "Software Problems and Bugs?

[Walt2]

Although my computer is connected to the CM15A all the time, I don't keep AHP running all the time and the CM15A clock drift over a period of many weeks is always much less than a minute.

I am pretty sure that the time is correct in the CM15A since all my time-specific Timer Events, are happening when they are suppose to happen.  Is only the two Timer Events I have, which are not a specific time, but instead, simply set for "Dusk", which are off; way off. 

And these two Timer Events worked just fine until 4/15, which happens to be one of the period starting dates in the Dusk/Dawn table.

[Oldtimer]

That's not what is suppose to be.   The table of Dusk/Dawn times, in the hardware configuration window,  are suppose to be downloaded, no?   

We have 2 computers on XP, another on W200 and one on W98SE.  When I adjusted them with the appropriate patches for the new DST one of the XP computers came up with an exact two hour error as we came through the old DST date.  I don't remember exactly what caused it.  Anyway my point is this, there are several different algorithms interacting between the patches, the orginal software, the built in correction in AHP and your clock synchronizing app.

What I would try next is to generate a new dusk/dawn table at a slightly different resolution than the present one and use the Update Interface command to download it to the CM15A.  What happens after that might give you a new handle on the problem.

[Walt2]

What I would try next is to generate a new dusk/dawn table at a slightly different resolution than the present one and use the Update Interface command to download it to the CM15A.  What happens after that might give you a new handle on the problem.

Now that is a good idea.  Thanks!   

[Charles Sullivan]

Walt2,
Take a look at file c:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Active Home Professional\ahpeeprom_w.txt

It'll have the Dawn/Dusk table listed near the bottom of the file and the rule it's using to determine DST intervals near the top of the file.

Note: It's not been clear to me that the CM15A's controller chip actually uses those rules - or else the date was never being set correctly by AHP in the first place.

[Walt2]

Take a look at file c:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Active Home Professional\ahpeeprom_w.txt

Good idea.

I did check that file, and honestly, I expected the table to be off by two hours starting with the 4/15 period. 

It wasn't.   

[Walt2]

I did more debugging, and after getting no where, I decided to simply try to work around the problem. 

What I thought of doing, was to change my two Timer Events to trigger two hours early, since the were triggering two hours late.  However, I found that AHP allows only an one hour offset.  So, I set them to 60 minutes early.  For me, that would mean they should execute at 20:48.

Well, they didn't execute at 20:48, but instead at 18:48!   One hour before the correct Dusk time of 19:48.  It kind of appears that the "before" radio button, or the use of an offset, causes different, and in my case correct, program behavior.

I think am on track to the real, core, of the problem.  The "after" option isn't calculating correctly anymore.  Even with a 0 minute offset, it seems that having the "after" radio button checked instead of the "before" radio button checked, causes the assumed AHP/CM15A bug to show up. 

I have to do some more debugging before I am sure.  However, as I mentioned in an earlier posting, I really get only one try at a test each evening.  So, this takes awhile.

[teez67f]

Hello Walt

Did you resolve your dawn/dusk issue?If not did you try syncing your PC to time.windows.com?
The reason I say this is is some of my PC"s(6) were synced with windows server and some with gov server in colorado.
After the DST change the windows server sync was fine but the other was off by One Hour!
All my PC's are now synced to time.windows.com and on time all the time!
My X-10 is running flawless and is never off by more than a minute(after a few weeks).
Simple clear interface,purge delayed,clear history and then update interface exactly at the XX:XX:59 sec mark does the trick.
Seems if you update interface any other way the time wanders by as much as one hour if not hooked to PC 24/7.
Here is my email homemail@videotron.ca if it does not resolve your problem.
I've been busy designing a touchscreen interface PC from the ground up to control home so rarely go on forum anymore.
I do however check my emails on daily basis(late,late at night) so possibly I have some pdf or other to fix your problem.

Good luck

P.S.I see TTA is busy re-organizing the place and doing a fine job at that too!Keep up the good work.

[Walt2]

Thanks, teez67f.

As I mentioned, my time specific Timer Events execute exactly on schedule.  These are the Timer events which I specify an exact time like 6:00am.  It is only the Timer Events which vary as per Dusk, that I am having problems with.   So, I am sure that my PC and my CM15A both have the correct time. 

[Walt2]

If anyone wants to see if they can reproduce my problem, and thus possibly confirm some sort of really odd software/firmware bug, here are the instructions...

• Set up two Timer Events
• Set one Timer Event to trigger 30 minutes before Dusk
• Set the other Timer Event to trigger 30 minutes after Dusk
• In the Hardware Configuration window, check what the current time is for Dusk
• Download the Timers and Macros to the CM15A
• Either by visual observation or by running the Activity Monitor, note the time each of these two Timer Events actually execute

If you find what I am finding, the Timer Event set to trigger 30 minutes before Dusk, will execute right on time.

However, the Timer Event set to trigger 30 minutes after Dusk, will not actually execute until around 2 hours after Dusk.

At least for me, this is 100% reproducible.

However, I am still at loss to explain why this never happened until 4/15.   

[teez67f]

Walt if you really want to see what is going on ..... it's long and tedious but precise.

Open your ahx file(aka your home setup ahp file ex:my home etc,...)but not through ahp.

go to ahp file and copy your home setup file to desktop or anywhere you please.

Right click and tell windows to open with ms word or open office writer ... open as text document.

There your whole setup including the times with offset are indicated.

I'm guessing your ahx file is corrupted and needs to be corrected in text!!!!Almost impossible or redo a new setup ... argh!!!

Check your timers with offset values for dawn and dusk (print a report of timers before opening as text so you can compare)

I,m 99% sure ahx got whacked .... that's assuming you got the right city in hardware config and I'm sure you put your city and not shangrila flats .

example:<macro name="PlayroomOn" code="B5" trigger="0" id="4000003" moduleid="2000040" ts="128211115902812500" download="1" >
         <el cmd="2" area="1" target="2000007" />
         <conditions>
            <el condition="0" operand="2" operation="0" timehour="17" timemin="5" timerelation="2" offsettimebeforespecification="1" offsethour="0" offsetminute="0"  />
            <el condition="8" operand="4" operation="1" timehour="17" timemin="15" condition2="0" operand2="5" timehour2="7" timemin2="55"  />
         </conditions>
      </macro>

when i said it was long and tedious this is what i meant.