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Author Topic: Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A Immediately [3 of 3]  (Read 38949 times)

carmine pacifico

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A Immediately [3 of 3]
« on: April 22, 2005, 10:14:43 PM »

ARF1410 <BR> <BR>Yes that is one to test for range, do not <BR>send more than 1 command every 10 seconds. <BR>


Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately

Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A Immediately [2 of 3]


[TTA Edit: Experiment to determine whether or not SPLITTING 'Highly-Viewed' / 'Highly-Replied' but currently

INACTIVE threads from LONG, LONG AGO (I'm starting with ~2 years) into parts will allow current

ACTIVE threads to appear in the Top 10 Topics (by Replies) section of the

Statistics Center (aka More Stats) Page.

NOTE: I *WILL* address the <BR> problem...]
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 11:55:50 PM by TakeTheActive »
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carmine pacifico

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2005, 11:18:34 PM »

Basic hardware comparison CM11a vs. CM15a

CM11a computer interface: it only job is to
process command via serial interface, run
very simple macros and timers from it’s own
external memory.
Microprocessor PIC16C58 clock speed = 4
mhz,  4 clock cycle/ instruction, computing
capacity 1 MIPS(million instructions per
seconds) , 2K code space , 73 bytes ram.

CM15a   processor CY7C63723, internal clock
6mhz, instruction are from 4 to 8 clock
cycle, I will use an average of 6 clock
cycle, raw computation speed = 1MPS.
Code space 8K, ram 256 bytes.This part else
has a serious hardware bug in the silicon
GPIO, X10 said that they do not use GPIO,
this means they are not using interrupts on
port pins, they are using polling,
basically slowing down the processor.
As far as computation speed both processor
are equivalent( less the GPIO bug).
The CM15a has to manage additional
resources:
USB interface to PC, power line commands,
RF incoming messages(all house codes), RF
transmitter(all house codes) and more
complex macros.
To me is equivalent to a small contractor
who used a pick up truck for his job,
eventually he decides to move up in the
world, and purchased a 3 ton truck; he is
short of cash so he decide to economize so
instead of buying the truck with the
standard engine, he get the same engine
size he had in his pick up truck : a 4
cylinder 2000cc engine.
Data sheets for the microcontroller are
readily available from the web, and so are
the schematic for X10 controllers, you draw
your own conclusion.
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Observer

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2005, 11:39:01 PM »

Carmine:  Poling is ok in real-time control
because it is running  “worst case” if
implemented properly.  Based on what you
described I can see why they don’t publish
any specifications and only talk about how
they feel.  This is starting to sound more
and more like a “con job” special.  I think
we ought to file a class action against
these “feel people” and see how “it feels”.
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Observer

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2005, 12:05:03 AM »

Carmine:  Here is what Tcassio reported on
4/16/05 see below, what is your take on that!

Tcassio  4/16/2005 07:09 AM
To All,  There seems to be a serious problem
with  the CM15A and motion sensor traffic.
Here  is what I discovered.  Whenever there
is MS  activity, PLC commands slows to a
crawl and  in some instances PLC commands
are lost.    Because of all the problems
with the CM15A  I purchased A Smarthome 1132
CU, and was  using the CM15A as a whole
house  transceiver.  I still had strange
problems.  Here is the configuration used
to diagnose the problem.    1132 CUP as my
controller;  CM15A as my transceiver set to
monitor  housecodes B & C;  1 TM751 set to
monitor housecode M (for my  motion
sensors);  Smarthome phase
coupler/repeater;  several Smarthome 5amp
filters.    I have a macro setup to turn on
2 lm465's  and dim to 50% The macro is
triggered by  HR12A.    Here are the
problems.    When triggering the macro, it
would only  work about 50% of the time.  The
other 50%  of the time the problems would
vary.  Some  time it would take between 5 to
10 seconds  for the lights to come on, and
when they  did some times only 1 light would
come on  and not the other.  Other times
they would  not come on at all.  Other times
the lights  would cycle on and dim twice.  I
noticed  that when it didn't work properly
there was  MS activity.    Then I eliminated
the CM15A from the  equation and used a
couple TM751's as my  tranceivers.  And the
macro worked 100% of  the time.    This
could explain why things installations
using MS are having intermitten problems.
Hopes this helps.  T.
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carmine pacifico

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2005, 10:51:42 AM »

Observer

Polling it’s OK if used properly, my
preferred method is interrupts and a simple
cooperative RTOS(yes you can use RTOS in a
small macros).
My point was that the 2 processors (CM11a
and CM15a) are equal in raw computing
power, but the CM15a is burdened with many
more chores, there is simply not enough
computing power to keep the CM15a working
properly and the GPIO bug causes more
problems. The Cypress new improved direct
replacement (Encore II CY7C63813) power
supply pins are at a different location,
the instruction set are different, Encore
II is based on the very successfully PSOC
line(my personal favourite microcontroller)
it run at 24mhz.
If  I was programming the firmware for the
CM15a , I would use GPIO interrupt to
trigger “timer capture” for RF receiver,
and for zero crossing at a minimum; without
GPIO interrupt the overhead increases on a
already slow microcontroller.
I am not a PC programmer, my experience is
purely on microcontrollers(
currently:Microchip, Atmel AVR, and Cypress
PSOC); I do not see a way out without a
processor replacement.
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SteveRF

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2005, 01:10:07 PM »

It has become comical.  I chuckle every day.
They know the design and shortcommings of the
CM15A.  They will keep selling them until
"they" decide to put out a new unit.  Based
on economics ! No amount of user engineering
will change that.  Our choice: refund and go
elsewhere or stick with it as they modify the
software to do the best it can.  So there you
go... It is not rocket science it is
economics...
It is cheap fun too...
SteveRF  
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arf1410

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2005, 01:53:02 PM »

SteveRF -
- I thought you were one of the guys
claiming everything has been fixed?

- As far as RF range - using a palm pad(?)
contoller with decent batteries, and CM15A
plugged into the PC, mine can receive
signals from anywhere in my 3600sq. ft.
house, so I cannot dispute X10's statement
that RF range is comparible to other X10
hardware.

Maybe Carmine (who seems like a sharp
fella) was right in his thoughts that the
RF probelems are not range as much as the
chip in the CM15A just doesn't have
the "horsepower" to process multiple RF
signals in a short period.  My very simple
test was simply a single RF command to
receive - no macros to execute, or even a
light to turn on...
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carmine pacifico

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2005, 02:30:38 PM »

SteveRF


I think you are mistaken, it is comical;
there are only 2 choices:
1)   use it as is, and hope in future
they will fix the problems and replace the
unit.
2)   Move on, X10 it’s not the only
source of controllers available, they are
many choices out there, some are in similar
price range, some are more costly.

Even if X10 would follow my suggestions,
the chips I suggested are not in production
yet, I have advanced information from
Cypress, I can get engineering samples but
not production quantity.
There no such a thing as the perfect
design, X10 it’s not the only company that
stretch the truth and rush to market to
soon, at the end is customer choice.
I could design a better product, but let’s
face it, X10 clientele would not pay the
price, they just want caviar and champagne
on a beer salary.
By now most people are aware of CM15a short
comings, the 1132CUP is a good alternative,
if anybody want a more sophisticate stand
alone system have a look at JDS, or Home
Vision Pro from Custom Solutions,  but they
cost more than CM15a + smart macros( a lot
more).
Have fan and enjoy life, do not allow
technology to become the master and us the
slaves.
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SteveRF

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2005, 03:16:05 PM »

Carmine, I believe that is exactly what I
said..2 choices.. very simple... It just
didn't take much air space to say it.

Arf, you are correct.  My CM15A 3.186 "seems"
to be functioning well at this time.  The
only repeatable bug I have at the moment is
the Status report not showing the correct
flag status. The flags are actually being set
correctly on my unit.  I have had one
complete failure since 7 Mar and that was the
evening of the upgrade.  Don't get me wrong,
I am not saying the unit is well.  We all are
VERY AWARE of the technical problems with the
unit. Like others have said so many many many
times.. there are other choices.. I am very
aware of those choices.  I just don't feel
that I should continually advertise for
another company here.
I am sure X10 will offer a "new and improved"
unit someday.  Until then I have the choice.

I am not sure I am getting the range you are
but I am going to retrofit the diag unit with
the external antenna next week.  That will be
a fun project.
Have a good weekend guys.
SteveRF
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Observer

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2005, 10:36:44 AM »

If a product is defective and/or not
sufficiently reliable to use as advertised
then there is but ONE CHOICE. RETURN IT AND
GET YOUR MONEY BACK.
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carmine pacifico

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2005, 11:23:14 AM »

Observer

To some people in this forum, the CM15a +
smart macros brings excitement in their
life.

The trill waiting for another update (and
another failed install etc ..) ; if they
return this junk, and purchase something
that works, life would be to boring.
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Observer

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2005, 11:38:47 AM »

Carmine:  Amen!  But wait an epiphany!  Why
not make contributions to a charity and
sponsor a kid.  Then at least your e-mail
will get answered!
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Observer

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2005, 03:36:01 PM »

My system is now operating satisfactorily; I
have replaced the X10 AHP/CM15A with 1132CUP
and V572AB and discarded the TM751’s.
Thanks X10 Company.  Your product
performance, service, and attitude helped me
decide.  Life is good again!
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Helpful Hints

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2005, 12:14:26 PM »

 
Below is a quote from PC Magazine Link =
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1677331,
00.asp  PC Magazine  X10 ActiveHome
Professional  REVIEW DATE:  11.02.04    “The
universal remote can work not only your  X10
devices but also your home entertainment
center, and the keychain can turn two
lights  on or off within 100 feet.”    How
many CM15A users get that with their
Keychain RF?
How about 1/2 of that, 50 feet?
How about 1/2 of 1/2, 25 feet?
How about any feet?

The X10 Company said:
"X10 Pro   4/22/2005 01:59 PM
We do not feel that there is fundamental
hardware RF problem that we need to fix. I
do  know that individual users have had
problems,  and I'm not denying that."

My confidence level in X10 fixing the CM15A
just dropped.

This forum apparently is just a charade  I’m
going to seriously review my options.
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gbholzer

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Re: Fix for RF on the CM15A immediately
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2005, 02:18:27 PM »

I just purchased my system and just like
most of you I have been experiencing some
difficulties, mostly with RF connections.

I have gotten all of my modules to work with
timers and with macros.  I have IWitness and
a camera and have that working well also.

My only problem has been with any type of RF
connectivity, as long as I am only 10 feet
away from the CM15 it works.  I spoke with
their tech. support guy and they sold me a
RF repeater which has not helped at all.

I am interested in the V572AB, this really
sounds like it will solve my RF issues.

Is the V572AB worth the effort or am I
wasting my time? I am still within 30 days
so I can return the system.

My whole setup is built around the use of
motion sensors, so if I have crappy RF
connectivity the system is worthless to me.

Thanks for any your thoughts.

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