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[Oldtimer]

I guess the question to answer first, is; "Do we want to (and / or can we) record from every camera who's microphone detects an above average audio level, or do we have to select a specific camera based on which one is loudest?"

A lot of the security camera pics I see on the TV news are actually a series of stop motion stills not videos and they seem to be quite effective in showing what's going on.  That's one extreme.  The other extreme is to record longer bursts of pure video with the question being how long.

In my mind any prolonged sound over the threshold should trigger a recording.  I don't see where the loudest sound will always be the most important.  If there is more than one prolonged trigger then you need to record samples of each, the only question is how big a sample and how often.

[essp2003]

In my mind any prolonged sound over the threshold should trigger a recording.  I don't see where the loudest sound will always be the most important.  If there is more than one prolonged trigger then you need to record samples of each, the only question is how big a sample and how often.

Yes Old Timer, the loudest was just a specific case of the wreckless illegal alien neighbors I have who aren't accustomed to law in a civilized country. It will also be a way to discount traffic riding by a certain range of velocity so its not an alarm: by compairing actaul readings.

However, I think as a greedy hueristic, all views with ANY alarm whatsoever should be recorded if ANY sound alarm is indicated. Of course the road view may be eliminated by comparison of sounds on the 4 corners of house and a certain speed going by (doppler effect).

The ONLY thing about the pics stored Old Timer, is they won't be in sync with the audio; so there is some filtering work to be done. Where audio is important information, a backup on dvd OR vcr would have to be parallel to web storage devices specifically when audio detected in views ONLY; and possilbly discarded later. If you don't have sound, I don't see the need for real time historical evidence with watermarks time/date stamped and all. Whether all the alarmed views need to be real time recorded when ANY view has audio is another question. I certainly think it would be convenient and much quicker to analyze versus a one time terrafloppy disc drive purchase.

It would certainly take a lot of guess work out of every day events viewing. As well, sounds not related could be tips of neighbors around at the time who can offer more information (garbage cans banging, lawn mower, distinguishable car tone, County Garbage Truck, Ice cream honkey, ...).

Information storage should be much cheaper than reflected in todays prices, especially in security dvr's. With a daily report of alerts, red flags should stand out as a change of events around house just from looking at alarm events reports alone. In that way, audio can record much further out, around walls, behind houses, and distances unobtainalble from before. You would be the Master of your neighbor hood for about 5 houses in any direction for many common actiivities to some degree. Everything makes noise, unfortunately.

Making usable standardized and customizable macros to start someone off will be the greatest challenge. But anyone who had a security camera would want one with sound alerts, imo.

[essp2003]

I would guess, expanding the monitored area to five homes in each direction, even with the best of today's available technology would be more than a part-time undertaking. At best it would be a very costly full-time job.

Makes me think .... cleaning up a little dog poop isn't such a big deal.

Dave,

I didn't mean to actually monitor the acitivity directly. What I meant was by noting occurances of sounds and filtering out in reports, you would start to recognize tendencies in daily routines once you investigated your actual vision/sounds a few times. Then by glancing at a daily sheet, you may or may not get a brief view of sevice acitivities in the close neighborhood.

I hope you knew the idea was not to monitor direct activity which would be impossilbe by sound alone. However, trucks etc... have distinctive schedules, time lags, and velocity rates (ie garbage truck). But there is no end to the additional knowledge that could be verified historically if you ever wanted to know and had the storage space. If you had decibel meters attached to readout, you COULD decipher likely times neighbors went in and out, for example only, if they had unique loudness vehicle.

It would be a whole lot more info than doggie poop and barks that keep you awake. Alarms for barks, lol.

But yes, it would get more complicated, and the iniitial design of standardized alarms would be critical in acceptance since most people would do no more. But you aren't going to get more information using a WHOLE new sense with different restirictions and limits by doing less, would you?

The limits are endless, so a little brainstorming now on different possibilities in the future may save a great deal of work if you start to prioritize end uses first. Star Treks computer used audio sounds too. Language is where the cpu starts, but beside that, there is so much that can be done with intelligence to pick up patterns of vehicles, people routinely walking through your yard, and of course optimizing a defense plan for intruders already in action an analyzed when you wake up.

In addition to decibels, an ionizer meter to show harmful positive ions emitted would be beneficial for infrasonic and ultrasonic sounds that are used by latino gangs terrorizing neighborhoods with electronic charged sound waves to cause pain and undesirable effects with characteristics unique to electronics and/or magnetics.  The more illegals that come across the border, the more important this will become. Sleeping 10 to 15 illegal aliens per bedroom at $150 per week per person makes a 2 bedroom townhouse big money opportunity worth harrassing neighbors away from houses with ghost-like haunting noises and pain to keep residents from sleeping 1.5 hrs straight, lose job, and lose house. They can make your heart beat 3X at night so don't sleep and make you have nausea when up and at house until ready to go to bed. Its a mature science: just not well known.

Mental institutions and law agencies have used them for quite a while so that's why they are legal (except harassment which is hard to prove without aids), but makes security cameras without sound alarms almost meaningless - the real terrorists are coming across the border every hour every day.

[essp2003]

http://www.amazing1.com/pest_control.htm#dog

Canine controller above is ultrasonics directional weapon. I got one to understand what neigjhbor with 30 illegals in 2 bedroom townhouse was doing to me (mainly one retarded house warden and his driver/interpretor).

And below is effects of Infrasonics with similar effect to Ultrasonics (low - high sounds, long - short Hz waves, disperse - directional waves, travels through walls - needs open aperture to enter (or sound resonant materials, ...):

http://www.lowertheboom.org/trice/infrasound.htm

Its very real. Real as illegal aliens, big money, and congress bending over to let them stay in 2 bedroom profit centers - $$,$$$/mo. What a crock.

[Don N]

Maybe I'm stating the obvious here.   But if I think about how I react to neighbor noises, I can start to think about how this whole audio detection thing might work.

As an example ... I hear cars, trucks, people, etc. go up and down my street all the time.  Most of the time it's just noise that sounds "normal."  But there are certain noises at certain times that don't seem normal.  For my safety and well being, I check out those noises.  My own personal threshold for noise tolerance determines which noise I check out.  Other members of my household have different thresholds.

I guess my point here is, noise detection and reaction is very personal.  And any attempt to quantify it (detection and reaction) must allow for a great deal of personalization.

[-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)]

http://www.amazing1.com/pest_control.htm#dog

Canine controller above is ultrasonics directional weapon. I got one to understand what neigjhbor with 30 illegals in 2 bedroom townhouse was doing to me (mainly one retarded house warden and his driver/interpretor).

And below is effects of Infrasonics with similar effect to Ultrasonics (low - high sounds, long - short Hz waves, disperse - directional waves, travels through walls - needs open aperture to enter (or sound resonant materials, ...):

http://www.lowertheboom.org/trice/infrasound.htm

Its very real. Real as illegal aliens, big money, and congress bending over to let them stay in 2 bedroom profit centers - $$,$$$/mo. What a crock.

Interesting links!

I don't know if any illegal aliens (terrestrial anyway) are using such technology, but I do know that sound as a weapon or deterrent has been studied for many years and can have some pretty nasty effects.

I bought a device some years ago that produces a varying high-pitched sound that will drive most people as far away from it as they can get and it runs on 2 AAAA (yes, quadruple-A) batteries!

I have also personally built my own (slightly modified) version of the "Phasor Blast Wave Pistol" (mentioned in one of your links above) from plans supplied by "Amazing Devices" and while not particularly effective as a weapon, people (and animals) definitely don't want to hang around when it's on!

It actually got to the point, when I was younger and living with my parents, that the standard response to any annoying noises, electrical disturbances, etc. was; "Billy... what are you doing now?"      

These days I choose to use my powers for good!  Okay, mostly for good. 

Anyway, while the technology is mostly unknown (thankfully?), acoustic weapons are a fact of life in the modern age, and the technology and knowledge to create them are both becoming much more readily accessable to the common man.

[essp2003]

Maybe I'm stating the obvious here.   But if I think about how I react to neighbor noises, I can start to think about how this whole audio detection thing might work.

As an example ... I hear cars, trucks, people, etc. go up and down my street all the time.  Most of the time it's just noise that sounds "normal."  But there are certain noises at certain times that don't seem normal.  For my safety and well being, I check out those noises.  My own personal threshold for noise tolerance determines which noise I check out.  Other members of my household have different thresholds.

I guess my point here is, noise detection and reaction is very personal.  And any attempt to quantify it (detection and reaction) must allow for a great deal of personalization.

Don,

Good point!

And everyone's environment is different, as well as personal requirements over time from even day to day. So the initial macros utilized with the optimum 'variables' will be most important in allowing maximum flexibility without users knowing C++ and Assembler coding languages.

[essp2003]

Interesting links!

I don't know if any illegal aliens (terrestrial anyway) are using such technology, but I do know that sound as a weapon or deterrent has been studied for many years and can have some pretty nasty effects.

I bought a device some years ago that produces a varying high-pitched sound that will drive most people as far away from it as they can get and it runs on 2 AAAA (yes, quadruple-A) batteries!

I have also personally built my own (slightly modified) version of the "Phasor Blast Wave Pistol" (mentioned in one of your links above) from plans supplied by "Amazing Devices" and while not particularly effective as a weapon, people (and animals) definitely don't want to hang around when it's on!

It actually got to the point, when I was younger and living with my parents, that the standard response to any annoying noises, electrical disturbances, etc. was; "Billy... what are you doing now?"      

These days I choose to use my powers for good!  Okay, mostly for good. 

Anyway, while the technology is mostly unknown (thankfully?), acoustic weapons are a fact of life in the modern age, and the technology and knowledge to create them are both becoming much more readily accessable to the common man.

Bill,

At that link I think is the man who made ultrasonics weapon worthy with 4 stacked piezo transducers for the Law and Military (which they all deny exists, but...). Its the interaction effect which makes all the chilling effects (like 4 car alarms stacked and aimed). Silent or just over audible 20kHz is the killer range where repeat cycle duration frequencies go from nausea to hyperactive and 'around' metal is like a microwave and even cotton 'blend' clothing will give you extreme pain, insides jump around, and extreme 'chills' down your spine. Infrasonics also known as subsonics is more wave length determinant and is good only with a car battery, d class 1000W amp, and subwoofers since would require 70+ amp house fuse breaker otherwise. So the new technology ultrasonics can run on 115v or 8 C cel batteries. But if you ever hear (infrasonic) BAAAH BAAAHH BAAAHH outside in front of your house, hold you hand up and you will feel pain come through your wall openings and even through the walls a few moments later.

I am well insulated now and have temporarilly run the illegal aliens out of their house with my 140db canine10. But it took a dedicated 2 months of research, home refurbishments, and painful nights once or twice a week. Illegal aliens (20+) have lived in same house last 2 (groups of) tennants (6 years) so don't expect any different from that landlord this time. Big bucks I guess. And its the first time in my life I never worried about a dog barking. It was a hard lesson, especially the defense, which the illegal aliens and Law haven't figured out to date. They just terrorize people 'hidden' behind boom boxes and people targeted 'never' realize what's going on (pissed off, can't sleep, head aches, ...). I didn't either until complained to law so much that was ALL they did. The first night it was like a haunted house with bed shaking, sounds in house, spine tingles, and energy giving me leg cramps and even 'grasping' my heart! I knew had to figure that crap out fast.

When I find time, really do want to write a book about it. There is nothing about either sound out there except for what I've posted specifically. I've got about 50 links that helped me determine characteristics of both including asking the Professor on that link above. It took a third world retard to show me, but think there HAS to be someone behind massive illegal alien housing profit scheme, or even the County Law itself from massive inconsistancies and conclusive evidence (won't really know until get a $12.2K Thermal Imager to look through walls, but more realistically, get $160 Body Heat detector and $100 Ion Field Detector to SHOW Police how to do their job, lol). Hell, there's 12 Million illegal aliens in Central Florida alone, packed about 25 people average per 2 bedroom flats. The rest of the nation has to be facing similiar circumstances themselves. IN FACT, just driving into town with windows cracked, once I got some unmistakable pains around glasses (steel arm core) temples and naseau effects around a redlight or two (close together). Now maybe the ultrasonics of normal tech devices may have caused it, but...

Here's a good book of the Professors 'Plans' for most of his 'good' stuff from Amazon which I got new about $10, interesting read to show what's out there (Look Inside!):

http://www.amazon.com/MORE-Electronic-Gadgets-Evil-Genius/dp/0071459057/ref=sr_1_1/103-3777683-6071008?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179534966&sr=1-1

That's what drove me to X-10! Security is very important when mixing civilized citizens and uncivlized aliens which the law seems to support more than the citizens rights: and they know it!  Already marching for Rights when not even legal citizens   

Renting to 20-30 illegal aliens has to be in top 10 businesses in America already. All you need is relentless retarded house warden that can't speak English and a driver/interpretor (so can play Grengo game with Sheriffs interpretor until Sheriffs dieing to get away). Their main pay is living expenses and subwoofer addiction, partially due to the release of endorphins in the body like Cocaine! Then pick up a few $200 totalled trucks for dropping labor off and have some driver/laborer dual jobs. The laborers come home after dark or 8pm and leave by 5am, so just the warden, driver/interpretor, and subwoofers most of the day (either Oompah music or even just BAAAH BAAAHH BAAAHH will do). Other accessories seem to be ultrasonics with canine controller activation and sweep mechanism, class d subwoofer with shotgun miic activation that switches from car to house easily, and shotgun mic so the retarded warden can follow anyone beside them 24/7 for territory expansion and another $10k/mo revenue stream. The laborers seem fine (I think) but anyone involved should be busted from the top down imo.

Its almost seems organized as another one of AG Bush's profit centers other than oil skimming and Chinese commissions
Very interesting INDEED!

[-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)]

Here's a good book of the Professors 'Plans' for most of his 'good' stuff from Amazon which I got new about $10, interesting read to show what's out there (Look Inside!):

http://www.amazon.com/MORE-Electronic-Gadgets-Evil-Genius/dp/0071459057/ref=sr_1_1/103-3777683-6071008?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179534966&sr=1-1

Cool!   

Another book of "toys" to add to my collection.   

[essp2003]

Its almost seems organized as another one of AG Bush's profit centers other than oil skimming and Chinese commissions
Very interesting INDEED!

OK..... and all this has WHAT to do with sound/cameras/AHP.

Haven't you already been banned from this forum once before under a different name?

Any CO's out there?

"OK..... and all this has WHAT to do with sound/cameras/AHP."

Root cause marketing and Product  interest trend generational analysis.


"Haven't you already been banned from this forum once before under a different name? "

No

[essp2003]

http://store.bluecherry.net/8_port_video_capture_card_linux_240fps_bt878_p/pv-183.htm

Bill,

The above is a link for a New 8 video 8 audio real time card for $215 ($239 minus 10% for new customer or a picture from past customers). That is the most audio inputs seen so far, and makes more sense to have one audio per camera as an independent entity, which takes guess work out of figuring different video and audio layouts.

All the other hardware is (somewhat) plug and chug for dvr (except Large hd), so the final variable is audio intelligent software/hardware combination. That's getting very close to what I'd like: 6 outside cameras and 2 inside cameras, 5/3, or 4/4. The outside seem more critical to me since not baby sitting loved ones. I will be interested to see what audio capabilities Bluecherry can achieve with 8 audio, Linux, and ZoneMinder.

The audio interface seemed like a big opportunity for X10, as you have previously proven with your research development. Except this will be interfacing with other equipment/software, so will be more complicated than using X10 input/output interfaces alone: which I think are becoming more standardized in Industry.

 

[-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)]

http://store.bluecherry.net/8_port_video_capture_card_linux_240fps_bt878_p/pv-183.htm

Bill,

The above is a link for a New 8 video 8 audio real time card for $215 ($239 minus 10% for new customer or a picture from past customers). That is the most audio inputs seen so far, and makes more sense to have one audio per camera as an independent entity, which takes guess work out of figuring different video and audio layouts.

All the other hardware is (somewhat) plug and chug for dvr (except Large hd), so the final variable is audio intelligent software/hardware combination. That's getting very close to what I'd like: 6 outside cameras and 2 inside cameras, 5/3, or 4/4. The outside seem more critical to me since not baby sitting loved ones. I will be interested to see what audio capabilities Bluecherry can achieve with 8 audio, Linux, and ZoneMinder.

The audio interface seemed like a big opportunity for X10, as you have previously proven with your research development. Except this will be interfacing with other equipment/software, so will be more complicated than using X10 input/output interfaces alone: which I think are becoming more standardized in Industry.

 

Cool card!     Unfortunately I have serious doubts about it's compatibility with MS Voice Recognition.  I know MSVR is somewhat picky about the feature set of the sound card.  Maybe someday I'll have the time and money to experiment with it.

Truthfully, even with fully compatible sound cards, I haven't begun to experiment with supporting multiple audio sources at the same time.

I also looked over some of the info on ZoneMinder... I may have to cobble together a Linux system to play with! 

My best suggestion as this point would be to contact the guys that write ZoneMinder and see if they can implement your idea in it.   

It could then put out an X10 signal that BXVC could act on.   

[essp2003]

Cool card!     Unfortunately I have serious doubts about it's compatibility with MS Voice Recognition.  I know MSVR is somewhat picky about the feature set of the sound card.  Maybe someday I'll have the time and money to experiment with it.

Truthfully, even with fully compatible sound cards, I haven't begun to experiment with supporting multiple audio sources at the same time.

I also looked over some of the info on ZoneMinder... I may have to cobble together a Linux system to play with! 

My best suggestion as this point would be to contact the guys that write ZoneMinder and see if they can implement your idea in it.   

It could then put out an X10 signal that BXVC could act on.   

"I also looked over some of the info on ZoneMinder... I may have to cobble together a Linux system to play with!  "

http://www.bluecherry.net/support/index.php?_m=news&_a=viewnews&newsid=1

The above Free "zoneminder live cd" from Bluecherry  is a light resource cd that will let you try out linux and zoneminder without formatting or partitioning hard drive based on Xubuntu.

It loads up like a complete set up alert with a 4 monitor alarm report page. So it wouldn't be reinventing the wheel: just adjusting codes. Except it looks pretty complete. But no audio intelligence, yet. So from Curtis's email last week, it looks like he's very close in audio implementation of the 4 audio card system software settings cd.

From what I can see, the card is the most expensive detail of the multi audio dvr's. If Bluecherry adds the preconfigured setting Zoneminder with multiple audio, it looks downhill from there: optimistically anyway.

I did see some real cheap mutli audio dvr's with Windows XP "HOME" edition () on Ebay, but looked outdated and risky. Interfacing linux and windows may be the better bet without Windows hardware/software development.


Thanks Kindly!!
 

[essp2003]

Maybe I'm stating the obvious here.   But if I think about how I react to neighbor noises, I can start to think about how this whole audio detection thing might work.

As an example ... I hear cars, trucks, people, etc. go up and down my street all the time.  Most of the time it's just noise that sounds "normal."  But there are certain noises at certain times that don't seem normal.  For my safety and well being, I check out those noises.  My own personal threshold for noise tolerance determines which noise I check out.  Other members of my household have different thresholds.

I guess my point here is, noise detection and reaction is very personal.  And any attempt to quantify it (detection and reaction) must allow for a great deal of personalization.

Don,

Other than time of day, decibels, decibels/second trend, and sound duration; I would hope there would be other sound variables that you could select ranges from. Maybe not. What I was thinking was to alarm all at first during sounds per periods and sound levels you'd like, and then customize it down from there according to empirical evidence. Software should allow a dump into excel if not enough stats to make a statistical valid choice from standard alarm reports. But a calculator could do it if you could put any alarm period you wanted: THUS the need for a large hard drive capacity. Not only for convenience, but for optimizing alarms and reports every time you make changes for a validation simulation on past data (if the (audio) alarm reports can run on past data recorded).

That would be the world to me. Otherwise, it will be a longer start up period, but with each startup, the learning curve would progressively get smaller each time per similar complexity changes. Hopefully, it will be much simpler for the majority of users and situations, although there seems to be an inifinite amount of intelligence as long as you can supply different alarm device prioritizing: showing all data on screen, and active alarms with the data in RED on the screen. It would almost be like time/date stamps of data in the corner of each screen with the active sound screen listening to data headings bolded out so you know which you are listening to (default sound screen otherwise and not the loudest which would be main road nearest you) .

The main uses of audio with video I could think of would be: security, vandalism, disturbing the peace, and various surveillance activitiy trends around your house if applicable (like inside city downtown neighborhoods). Same as the video, but hearing behind walls makes the filtering more complex than a camera on/off or zoomed. In the city, it would certainly beat watching TV 


Thanks

[roger1818]

What if you were to connect the mics to a PCI DAQ?  You should be able to pick up a cheap one for under $200 that will be good enough to decide which mic is loudest.