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Author Topic: Where did they go ?  (Read 7541 times)

darkstarz

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Where did they go ?
« on: March 21, 2007, 12:50:28 PM »

  Ok, I've been pretty much totally negative towards X10 here lately,  >:(  and it's a bit disappointing, and I can imagine it doesn't go over well for the people that work there, as well as the newcomers to X10 products. It's nothing personal towards the employee's, even though it may seem like it at times from me and others. It's mainly venting totall frustration because what once was, seems to be no longer. By that I mean X10, it's products, services and support. The sales people have got it made, they don't get the brunt of the negative comments, at least not as much as the Tech's and such.
  The problem is they "used" to be a whole lot better on responding to tech support requests, regardless of the issues, didn't have all the non-stop pop-up sales ad's, and emails, stating the BIG sale is on when in all reality it's been the same dang price forever. It's like they changed management or something, haven't made any changes one way or another to their software in keeping up with the times and improvements with everything else. They even seem to have gotten a bit negative when it comes to their Tech Support replies and would rather you go find it out yourself in the Forums, if there is an answer at all. I read a while back that they had financial issues, court battles, and thelikes, and it seems that it all started at around the same time frame, though I could be mistaken. I'd just like to know why they don't act like a company that wants your business, support and dedicated customers a s abusiness that wants and plans on staying around for a while? Any business with that intention knows that customer satisfaction, customer support is KEY in maintaining their business and that word of mouth and the Internet can destroy a business really quick when they start to ignore their customers and neglect the very product the are trying to sell.
  So I'd really like to know..... where did X10 go?
 ???
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Larry S.
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HA Dave

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2007, 06:33:25 PM »

Did X10 change....or did the customers change.

Before rampent Internet connections, X10 was sought out by technical types that easily understood the technology involved. And they were willing to pay well for the privilege of home automation. Home wiring hasn't changed much... but the appliances and electronic devices, and number of those devices have changed and increased dramatically. This makes X10 a little less user friendly..... but still homeowner, DIY, technology. And the Internet, has made the "average Joe" the typical customer.

Now everyone expects electronics to be cheap, and with HOT SALES PRICES (and X10 has complied). Everyone expects cheap (or free) shipping, phone tech and customer support, on-line manuals and FAQ sections. X10 has more than complied.

This forum is hugh... and from time to time... someone has a little trouble, when pushing the limits of todays HA technology. And often they don't know how, or feel comfortable with saying..."Please help"..... so they rant a little. The rest of us users... we understand.

What are you having a problem with larry s?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 06:36:03 PM by Dave_x10_L »
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2007, 08:52:38 PM »

X10 USA seems to have changed, and not for the better, if recent news isn't wrong. It has lost a bunch of programmers and apparently some of the front office staff. Michael Cole, who was X10Pro, left and has rejoined the forums as a regular user.

There's been no upgrade to AHP since last July, with version 3.204, nothing since for the general users. Version 3.206 is specifically for On Alert users.

Prior to last July, upgrades for AHP were often.  Check the AHP software history elsewhere here for it.
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darkstarz

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2007, 01:29:33 PM »

  Well Dave I have been using computers since 1982, before many of the members here were even born, so I do know a little about technology, even built the main network structure for the Internet here before a lot of people knew it existed and managed the Helpdesk and Technical support services for the first internet service in the area. I have a little experience I guess you could say and have a pretty good idea as to what "Customers Service and Support" is all about, as well as what the lack of it can do for a company.
  What I am having issues with is something very simple, and quite obvious, as many here have pointed out. There has been no real service when it comes to the software that X10 provides. The tech support team for X10 I believe has good intentions, and are probably just as frustrated as the customers, because they can only say and do so much when it comes to issues with the software. As for the devices, hell, they're no different than any product you buy anywhere, you get what you pay for, period. X10 has no accountability when it comes to the hardware products they sell, as they are nothing more then a retailer and buy the same stuff we do but at a much much lower cost.
  But it's the Customer Support from the company, actually, the Management that is really at fault here. Show me where on their webpages there is anything that says you may have issues with using their software if you're using a certain OS, not just Vista, but other versions of Windows or even MAC's. Show me where there is any information on their website anywhere that even refer's to any product updates, patches, or anything that relates to a possible time frame when something may be available. Where is there information stating to a new customer that if they are running Windows Vista that you may not be able to use certain software, hardware, plug-ins or anything like that so someone doesn't go buy this stuff only to discover when they get it they can't use it.
   I have been a "customer" of X10 for over 7 years now, they can check when I first started buying their stuff if they keep good records as they should, and I've been through every phase of their business, even their Bankruptcy filings, and had no problems getting a direct answer, a timely responce, and great support for what ever problem that came up. It's certainly not that way now. I have to email multiple times to get answers to something as simple as getting my registration numbers reset because of all the issues they had with ATI's software, which took over a year to get a fix for. I couldn't update my video drivers with having major issues with X10s drivers, which should never have happened in the first place. Yet, they never really admitted the problem to the public so anyone using an ATI video card would know before they bought that there may be an issue.

  That's my issues Dave, and I think they are valid ones at that and I don't think I'm alone on this either. I know there are some very good people that work for X10, I know the names that I've seen for a long time that I've gotten great support from before, so it's not a personal issue by any means.

 8)



Did X10 change....or did the customers change.

Before rampent Internet connections, X10 was sought out by technical types that easily understood the technology involved. And they were willing to pay well for the privilege of home automation. Home wiring hasn't changed much... but the appliances and electronic devices, and number of those devices have changed and increased dramatically. This makes X10 a little less user friendly..... but still homeowner, DIY, technology. And the Internet, has made the "average Joe" the typical customer.

Now everyone expects electronics to be cheap, and with HOT SALES PRICES (and X10 has complied). Everyone expects cheap (or free) shipping, phone tech and customer support, on-line manuals and FAQ sections. X10 has more than complied.

This forum is hugh... and from time to time... someone has a little trouble, when pushing the limits of todays HA technology. And often they don't know how, or feel comfortable with saying..."Please help"..... so they rant a little. The rest of us users... we understand.

What are you having a problem with larry s?
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Larry S.
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HA Dave

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2007, 05:32:38 PM »

I agree with almost everything you wrote in you last post larry s.

X10 is most certainly having difficulties attracting and/or retaining people with the code writting skills required. Dan also pointed that out, and your both right!

I don't know, if it's a temporary problem, or the beginning of the end, and it's possible the management at X10 doesn't know ether. Or maybe it's like many of those problems (we have all encountered) that seems to have been resolved, but then pops back-up again and again. Or maybe, they've just turned a blind-eye to current problems. I don't know. I know X10 has had better days, and worst years, and I (selfishly) wish them the best in the future. I don't expect them publish their problems... as they DO have competitors.

In 1982, I was a veteran, with a family, and a Vic-20 (Commodore) computer. I really don't think of myself as one of the old guys here. But, you sound like you bring some very valuable experience to the forum, that could be very helpful to other members.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 05:40:43 PM by Dave_x10_L »
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darkstarz

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 12:27:39 PM »

  You know I wish I could spend a little time every day going through the various  forums I like and be able to provide some valuable input, for whatever the issue. But, regretfully I don't have that option. I'm a disabled vet, and my days are determined on a day by day basis, with to many of those days being very limited. But I'm always glad to do what I can for whoever, whenever. Like I said before, I've been more than happy to stick up for X10, because there are many issues that are mainly "operator error" and can be easily resolved, and then people have to realize that every computer is different, even if it's the same make, model, etc., because of how we set it up and "personalize" them for our own needs. There are so many different and various versions of software and drivers on the market that it can make diagnosing some issues a bit more difficult. In a way, a computer is like people, just as we are all different, so are they, and that's an important thing to remember, for everyone.
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Larry S.
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HA Dave

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2007, 06:25:33 PM »

You know thats my biggest gripe. As much as enjoy home automation and X10 products, sometimes I just get tired of being my own tech support, and repair person. Like everyone else (I would guess) I sometimes wish technology was a little more evolved.

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darkstarz

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2007, 06:57:41 PM »

  Can't wait to get to 10 years from now and then look back at this and see the difference in technology. I have a feeling we'll either be amazed at the improvements, or disappointed in the lack of progress. We're gauranteed one or the other!  ::)
  I look back now on what it was like 25 years ago, yes I did say  25 years ago, when I was teaching my lil girls how to use and play on their Commadore 64 and think we've done pretty good. Just not good enough, as I think we've limited ourselves in a lot of areas when it comes to technology and advancements, but are now finally starting to spread out a bit further. Soon we'll be talking to our houses and appliances in one fashion or another, and X10 will look like the old fashion era.
  We never know anymore what we will wake up to the next morning, but we should be thankful that we just do that, wake up. That and the fact we live a life of luxury here inthe US, more so than so many, many other places around the world. Yet in some ways, we've fallen short of making the US the best place to live. Damn... gone to far... gotta stop now, getting in to the wrong stuff for this board.  ;D
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Larry S.
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The impossible we do immediately,
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HA Dave

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2007, 07:52:06 PM »


 Soon we'll be talking to our houses and appliances in one fashion or another,


Soon?  Have you seen the BXVC thread?

I use Bill's X10 Voice Commander, with ActiveHome Pro to control my X10 setup(s).

The future is here!
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darkstarz

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2007, 08:24:52 PM »

Damn... thanks.... just when Spring arrives and I start looking towards being able to go outside and putter around the yard to break up the boredom of being stuck in the house all winter, you show me this! Now I have to start in on this and see all the stuff involved, and the mounting possibilities because its in my blood. I knew I should have stayed away from the Forums, now there's something else to spend time and money on and the wife is going to go beserk on me. But I can't help it, it's in my blood, it's technology, and its Kewl! What more can I say.
 Time to hurry up and finish building the new server so I can install Microsofts Home Server software I'm testing so I can jump in to this stuff. Can't wait, I can hear the wife now when she first hears the voices.... of course I won't tell her until I have it at least partially setup and functioning. Oh yeah..... I'm sure you all will be able to hear it as well..... no doubt about it .
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Larry S.
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Miracles may take us a day longer.

bradleystownsend

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2007, 10:16:02 PM »

There are a lot of really technical people using x10 with varrying degrees of success.  I have been installing computers and networks since the early days of Netware.  None of this really prepares me to be completely without tech support from x10. 

If x10 does not fix their code and provide even adaquite tech support very soon....they eventually won't need any programers or tech support!!!!!
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darkstarz

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2007, 08:30:04 PM »

Regretfully this is sad, but rue. It's a dog eat dog world anymore, and technology doesn't just sit around and wait for someone to come fix it like it used to be. There are too many other companies out there, from small mom & pop to major corps that are willing to take the time, spend a dime or two and take the business others can't, or won't provide service for. The products X10 sells isn't anything that spectacular, it's mass built, quite cheap when you consider todays technology and ability to mass produce such things. The technology X10 uses isn't the top of the line, high end type of stuff a lot of people are buying for protecting their homes and businesses for the most part, and they rely on the low prices to bring in their customers. Only now, without the proper Tech support, that customer base is going to do an about face and go back to the old saying, "You get what you pay for!" You want a good product with good support, you pay the price.
  You'll actually find more, and better support (no offence X10 Techs) right here in the Forums from other Forum members, who have no other intention than to help others. Real people, helping real people, because they want to, and care. Reminds me of the 1st Internet Service Provider I helped build and start here at home ...... now over 12 years ago! (damn, didn't think it was that long ago, sheesh...) OMG ! I am getting old!  :o
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Larry S.
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Walt2

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2007, 06:58:56 AM »

Michael Cole, who was X10Pro, left and has rejoined the forums as a regular user.

There's been no upgrade to AHP since last July, with version 3.204, nothing since for the general users. Version 3.206 is specifically for On Alert users.

Prior to last July, upgrades for AHP were often.  Check the AHP software history elsewhere here for it.

At least for me, the biggest "hit" was Michael Cole leaving X10.   Michael was great to help.  Even after the end of the official beta-testing, I could still email him with a problem.  As far as I know, there is no one at X10 who continues to support us like he did.

Yea, no updates to AHP does bother me, especially since we all have found several major bugs, including adapting to the now changing DST.

Makes me wonder if AHP/CM15A is now a "dead" product.  X10 will sell it until their warehouse of units is empty, and then end it (like the REX-10).

I've had X10 since just about the beginning, with the Sears branded versions.   The purchaser really needs to think of it as a hobby, and requires a bit of technical tinkering.  IMHO, X10 was never, and will never be, "plug and play" for the masses.
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HA Dave

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Re: Where did they go ?
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2007, 11:21:43 PM »


IMHO, X10 was never, and will never be, "plug and play" for the masses.


I share your opinion! But I also wonder what is, "plug and play" for the masses.
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